I think you should listen to your husband.

In one other thread lately somebody was talking about approaching home owners and making offers when the property wasn't listed for sale. I've done it several times, and I made the statement the down side of doing this is it immediately puts the owner in the driver's seat on price because they know you want it. My folks went through the same thing years ago.

They loved a house we had rented and were on good terms with the owners. My father was in the military and didn't want to buy a home because he expected to be shipped out to Vietnam. So, a verbal agreement was reached with the owner that they'd sell to him at X dollars when he came back to the states and retired.

In good faith, my folks drove seven hundred miles to make the purchase and the owner got greedy and upped the ante to almost double the price. They could have afforded it, it was still worth it if you really, really liked it and they did. But, the principle bothered my father so much, he just walked away, came back to his hometown and retired there in a cheaper and actually nicer home.

The homeowner who thought he was going to make the killing ended up having to duplex the home out and rent it to college kids. LOL. Hard to tell what is going on with the homeowner you are discussing. Perhaps he wants an income property, perhaps he pumped money into it in the interim for a major item, perhaps he thinks you want it too much.

No answers, but I understand how you must feel. Why the emailing? Can't you call him up if FSBO , or go through a realtor to make an appointment for a showing? You don't have to tell him the offer you give him won't be for his full price. You might even be in for a surprise. He may have made some alterations to the house you don't want.

Did you make a counteroffer to his raised price?

I'm inclined to agree with your husband too. I don't think he's an ogre at all, what he's doing is just the nature of the free market. He clearly doesn't need to sell at this point so why shouldn't he name the price he wants? He doesn't owe you any favors, and it's probably what any seller would do in the same situation. Do you really want to lose out on it at this point, knowing that nothing else you've looked at in eight months and 40+ viewings comes close?

Julie, I think I would thank him, let him know your house sold and that you'd love to meet in person to try to work out a deal. If not, tell him he knows your email addy and can use it if at some point he decides he wants to sell the house.

I would then find something to rent and deal with this in the spring. Perhaps at that point his tenant situation won't be working as well as he thinks it is, maybe he'll be more willing to work with you.

Do you have enough cash to buy new? This is what we ended up doing. I can't tell you how many new communities there are here and how low some of them are with starting price. May be worth it to look into it even if you have to drive 15 minutes longer to work. For us, trying to find a floor plan that we liked in a used house was never going to happen. The incentives we got were decent.

Go to a real estate lawyer and get an official purchase offer written up. Then send this offer Fed Ex (or whatever carrier - to get a signature that shows when he received it). Give a Fax# where the response can be sent, or he can respond via Fed Ex also.

It is possible that the email got caught mixed in with all his SPAM. Also he might not check his email often. Besides, email is not what you need to be doing at this stage. You already know he is willing to sell - now you need to focus on a signed contract and a price (not just a price via email.)

Also - I agree with your husband as well.

Get an attorney that specializes in RE. And don't get a realtor.

If you've looked at over 40 homes and none of them fit your needs with the exception of this one, I agree with your hubby. My hubby likes to say "don't cut off your nose to spite your face".

What a prospective seller makes on a house is irrelevant to you. I know you don't want to overpay, but you're not the profit police. You said yourself that you would submit an offer if you saw the home at the price he's asking for it tody, so why hesitate. You may be kicking yourself for believing you overpaid for this home if you get it, but then again you may be kicking yourself for compromising on another home if you don't get this one.

Didn't you ask more for your house the second time around because of the refi-costs? The seller in the other house is in the driver seat and knowing somebody wants it I would start higher too if I was selling. You don't know why he feels 10K more is worth it, but he doesn't have to explain. If this is the only one that works for you then I would consider that too and skip the emotions. Seems to me that percentage wise he is asking a very small increase. Is it possible he has to pay costs to release the tenant or something?

BTW if you do buy this house, don't close until the tenant is out of the house or you could end up owning a rental house with a tenant.

He lives out of state. I think I have his parents address, but I have no clue if he lives there now. I mailed him a letter there months ago and got no response. I didn't put a number in the letter, just said "fair price agreeable to both." But I also talked of not using realtors, just using lawyers. No response.

So a month ago, I started looking again for him and found his email address and sent a short email asking if he was the owner of the house near me. All he responded was "Yes and wouldn't consider anything less than XX." (his list inflated by $10K). According to comps, his house is certainly not worth even the LIST price. However, it's enough within the range that it's worth it to us (if we still leave the realtors out of it).

So I emailed back last month, offered him XX, to pay all closing costs, and cover laywers -- which equals over 95% of his list price. Got no response and this is where we stand. I'm willing to go up to 100% I think, but not 110%+.

roselvr, I know new build would be easier, but there nothing affordable for at least 30 minutes. Things have been so built up here. Even then, we're not fans of tiny lots, stucco and chicken wire, or HOAs. Not worth it. The beautiful spec homes I see people building in this forum throughout the country simply aren't available here. :+( It's all the sante fe/medditerranean style with beige stucco and orange tile roofs.

juliebatt, as I stated in your other thread he is not greedy, and he is not an ogre. Everyone wants as much money as the market will bear for their commodity. You wanted as much as possible for the sale of your house, he is no different.

Ask yourself how much money your time is worth. If you've been looking all this time and have to search months and months more, how much is that worth to you? Let's say you and your hubby have a combined income of $100 per hour. If you look for another 100 hours that is your $10K. Also include the stress and strain of looking and, as said above, you are biting off your nose to spite your face.

Personally, I looked at 131 houses the last time I purchased across two states. These were pretty hot markets, so I was looking at something new almost daily. It was awful. If I could have been done at house #2 for $10K more than I paid for this house, I'd have said SOLD!

I did ask for the closing costs of my refi, but only because he pulled out and he was completely willing to pay. Which we ended up splitting them 50/50. Again, a COMPROMISE. Again, we started out at 475, our last list was 400. When he called, I only said 400 because that indeed was our rock bottom (and why we pulled it off the market).

I could understand this guy saying his list price, but to not even reply to me. Obviously he doesn't need to sell anymore. I'm not trying to regulate his profit, but when he refi's his property in July just to pull out a measily $20K, one would think he'd really like to get his money out of this house and $70K tax free would be very enticing. If he waits much longer, he'll have to pay taxes since he doesn't live there anymore. I just can't understand why he doesn't respond with a "can you do any better?" sort of thing.

I'm going to swim upstream here and say that I'd pass on the house. It would be ok to pursue if the price was at market value, but in a down market I'd be extremely leery of buying a house above market value. The reason being that you'd immediately be underwater on the home, especially when you throw in the projected cost of selling (realtor fees, closing costs, etc).

Maybe it's your "forever house", but as the ad says, life comes at you fast and you never know what might force you to sell before you planned. Pass on that one and keep looking, or put the money saved on a more reasonably priced home into a remodel.

roselvr, I know new build would be easier, but there nothing affordable for at least 30 minutes. Things have been so built up here. Even then, we're not fans of tiny lots, stucco and chicken wire, or HOAs. Not worth it. The beautiful spec homes I see people building in this forum throughout the country simply aren't available here. :+( It's all the sante fe/medditerranean style with beige stucco and orange tile roofs.

Julie, 30 minutes isn't that bad, my hubby travels and will travel an additional 30 minutes due to our new location. The place we found is by Richmond America and has no HOE fees. I'm seeing them get trashed in a few locations but everything I've seen is top notch, people I talk to are happy.

I just can't understand why he doesn't respond with a "can you do any better?" sort of thing.

Possible he didn't get your email. Email again asking for an address, then mail it via fed ex as was mentioned.

Personally, I looked at 131 houses the last time I purchased across two states. These were pretty hot markets, so I was looking at something new almost daily. It was awful. If I could have been done at house #2 for $10K more than I paid for this house, I'd have said SOLD!

I also pounded a lot of pavement. It's why we went new.

My husband just wants it and thinks I'm being too emotional. But I know I wouldn't enjoy the house as much thinking I overpaid and/or I was contributing to or encouraging this seller's arrogant approach. There are 50,000 desperate sellers out there, and I'd much rather buy from someone who's happy to sell to me! But of course, the house we want most belongs to an ogre.

I agree with your husband.

Calling the seller a ogre (!) seems pretty harsh. House buying and selling are business transactions. The seller has something you want, now the question is how much are you willing to pay for it?

For a while, I thought (and I sometimes still think) we overpaid for our house. The market was stagnating and maybe tipping downward but we didn't discount the asking price by much. So my feeling was that we paid way too much. BUT we really really wanted this house - it has a floor plan that works for us in a location that works for us. There are only four other houses with this floor plan so if we had passed this one up there were no guarantees we could get a similar house at all. So, was the premium worth it? In the end, I have to say it was.

If this is your 'forever' house - the one you keep coming back to - then maybe the $10,000 premium is worth it to you. If you really dislike the seller so much that you will forgo this house, then cross it off your list and move on.

I am in agreement with chiefneil. When we bought our last house, my husband promised me that we would be carried out of the house belly up. Seven years later he got the itch and we moved 1400 miles.

Walk away if you think that it is too much for the comps.

We are in N.E. and I've noticed lately an odd phenom - sellers raising their listing prices. Three homes that I would have bought during our long treck to sell our old house, the listing agreements expired and the sellers relisted at higher prices. As much as I loved the houses, I walked away.

I am never going to buy a house like it's my forever home again. Unless I guess, I'm like 90 and one foot in the grave.

MP

Julie,

The facts are that you don't know why he pulled $20K from the house recently & you don't know why he's not responded to your email. What we do know is that he's in control of his game...a nice place to be.

What I'd do if in your shoes is attempt to change the game plan by taking control of the offer. To do this, I would:

1.) Have counsel draw up a contract with my sales price;
2.) Give him 3 days to respond;
3.) Make a check, payable to the seller, for $5K as earnest money;
4.) Instruct counsel to forward a cover letter presenting your offer including a COPY of your earnest money check & telling the seller that your counsel is holding the check in his escrow account until acceptance/rejection of the offer, & a copy of your loan approval letter.

By doing this, you've placed him in a position where's he's got a serious offer on the table. If that doesn't draw him into negotiations then I'd pass on the house...he's not interested at this time in selling.

Most of all, I caution you against becoming emotionally vested and/or trying to read too much into his actions or inactions. Stop trying to second guess him & concentrate on your game which is getting an offer in front of his face.

Remember too that it's just a house...a material thing. Sure, you like it & would enjoy calling it home but it's not the only house suitable for your family. It just feels that way now because you've allowed yourself to become emotionally vested. If it doesn't work out keep looking. My life experiences have been that when I have to force something too hard it's not meant to be & something always comes along that's better.

Good luck & keep us posted.

/tricia

Okay, okay, thanks everyone for being the voice of reason. I mentioned Tricia's plan to my realtor/friend (who's handling everything anyway), and he's pondering it, but said not to get my hopes up. So I'm not.

Chiefneil, I agree. Not only may I quickly resent the house, the price squeezes us more than I'd like for the long term. Since my husband has been laid off 3 times, I trying to be super conservative this go around. Sure, I can turn off the cable, cut my grocery bill, and stop eating out, but I can't easily lower a mortgage payment without selling. No house is worth that.

roselvr, thanks for the encouragement, but it all comes down to quality of life for our entire family -- and location is the NUMBER ONE priority, followed by the layout. :) We aren't budging! ;+)

Anyway, we have expanded our search by a mile and found another promising neighborhood that might turn up some prospects this week. Meanwhile, our buyer has signed off everything, including waiving the inspection period, and we're set to close at the end of October. :) The hard part is over! Yay! I can sleep much better now!