Need Support When Installing Short Header on Load Bearing Wall??

11 years ago

I am installing a pocket door in a load bearing wall. The total wall span is 15 feet. The existing rough (supported) opening in the wall for the swing door is about 31-1/2". To accomodate the pocket door, I need to reframe this rough opening to 49-1/4".

I already have constructed a 2x6" beam to carry the load above this opening. To install it, I'll need to demo a post, and cut off some studs; the job should take about 15 minutes max before the beam is in place.

For just a 4 foot opening in a 15 foot wall, and for just a few minutes, do I really need to go to all the trouble of constructing temporary supports for the ceiling?

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Comments (16)

User
11 years ago
Your math is off for the header that you need for a 30" pocket door. And yes, you need to support the ceiling. What is the load carried by the wall? Do you know how to calculate that?
Curmudgeon10
Original Author
11 years ago
It's a 24 inch pocket door, rough opening is 49 1/4"W, 84 1/2" H. I have no idea how to calculate the load. Above is a truss structured insulated attic with asphalt shingle roof. Existing wall construction is standard 16" OC studs.

Appreciate the help!
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I must defer to your contractor because he should know what the loads above are, what supports them now and what will support the new jamb studs at the new headers and I don't. A double shear connector just uses angled full sized nails that act as connector nails and toe-nails at the same time. I have no way of knowing if that is necessary or appropriate. In designing a structure modification it is necessary to start at the highest point and add up the live and dead loads down to the modified element and then follow the new load path from there to the foundation providing the necessary transfer headers, connections, ties, and braces. As far as I can tell, you have not supplied any of that information.
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Okay Amy, from a woman's standpoint who doesn't understand the intricacies of this important task, I hired experts as it seems you will too. So, if you are trying to get a general idea of how it happens, I can tell you. We just had something similar done 3 weeks ago. But on a MUCH smaller scale, I might add. I had a load bearing wall between the kitchen and DR that we wanted to make more open. It supports at least half of our house. We went from a 36" open doorway to approx 80" open. The GC took measurements and found out the size of the header beam that the load required, structurally. When the time came, the carpenters opened up the walls and ceiling, moved the electrical out of the way and installed two temporary walls on each side of the existing ceiling/walls against the attic joists (we have a single story ranch so this might be different for you)Once everything was in place and the load could be essentially transferred to the temp suppports, they sawed thru the existing beams and installed the new longer heavier beam. I ended up with a new 12" deep header where I used to have two walls and an open doorway. It was either that or go into the attic and cut the joists to install a steel beam to carry the load if I wanted a flat ceiling. I opted for the less scary (to me) and more cost effective header :) Also, I googled 'removing a load bearing wall' and watched a few YouTube videos ahead of time so I could kind of understand the process. HTH!
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if this wall is not load bearing, why is there such a big header?
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It really is not that uncommon for builders to just mass produce headers out of the same materials. They just size them for the largest load for the project and don't worry about individual calculations. The material cost difference is pretty minimal and you can get away with using less experienced labor if you don't need them to think about a bunch of different factors. You just have someone making 10 "doors" and 25 "windows" all in a row and pop them in as you go. Of course, that is why you hire an engineer to tell you why things were done and if you can change them. As a practical matter, you can turn just about any doorway into a wider entrance. If the wall is load bearing, you just need to size the header appropriately for the load and span. A triple 2x10 is probably enough, but the engineer should do the calculations and let you know. You don't put a header on an L bracket though. You'll need a 2x6 under each end and then another 2x6 running on the outside running continuously from floor to ceiling. You'll almost certainly need a longer header. If you are planning to do this yourself and it is load bearing, remember to build a temporary wall to support the load before you take down that header or any of the 2x6 studs.
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Husband and I finished an 2 story 18 x 24 addition about 4 years ago. Even with subbing out some of the work, it was of course, more money and more work than we anticipated. Same old story to anyone who has ever... I know husband can do this with help from my 2 adult, still living at home, mooching sons LOL but - hubby has a bad back and is 62 so no spring chicken. Plus we are finally talking to each other after 4 years! Can't get anyone else to call me for a quote. Even with referrals these guys either don't call back or are no shows. Willing to do some demo to save time and money. All I have read from various Garden Web articles is that it is not a HUGE project (I only have about a 13' span and I have architectural specs) so I don't understand why somebody wouldn't want to come in for a quick buck. Hate doing it but I guess I will start calling names from ads in our local paper to people I don't know or have any referrals.
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User
11 years ago
What will be resting on the top of the wall above the new door opening?
Curmudgeon10
Original Author
11 years ago
I haven't been in the attic to see whether a truss rests directly on this wall or not (OK, I'm lazy; it is a ten foot ceiling, and my ladder for that height is downstairs in the basement). I just know from previous work on my house that this wall runs in the same direction as the trusses for that portion of the house.

From below, where I've demo'd the drywall, one can see that the king studs and trimmers terminate on a conventional looking 2 x 4.
cookncarpenter
11 years ago
If the trusses run the same direction as the wall, it sounds like it may not be load bearing? I would at least go in the attic and see what may be affected by your temp wall removal... shoring is quick, cheap, and easy insurance
User
11 years ago
Why would you ask others to take the time to advise you when you aren't willing to find out if the wall supports anything?
Curmudgeon10
Original Author
11 years ago
Gee, Renovator, sorry to have taken up SO MUCH OF YOUR VALUABLE TIME.

I confirmed that the wall is load bearing, and in the demolition noticed that the single 2 x 4 header over the existing swing door had a SLIGHT downnward bow in it, which means that that opening should also have been headed off by something more substantial than a single two by four during the original construction 15 years ago. The deflection wasn't (yet) enough to impede or cause any visible problems with the swing door.

Hollysprings, still waiting for that method to calculate the load. In the mean time, through some internet research have found that a 2x6 header is adequate to support a conventionally framed unoccupied attic for my rough opening of 49-1/4".
zagut
11 years ago
Same direction as the trusses.
Single 2x4 header.
Does it have a single or double top plate?
Just how did you confirm it's a load bearing wall?
User
11 years ago
If the roof trusses are parallel the wall, the wall is highly unlikely to be structural regardless of any sagging of the original header.

It was not my time that I was referring to; it was your odd refusal to look more closely at the existing conditions. We can offer advice but we cannot inspect your house framing for you.
User
11 years ago
Bite the bullet and head on into the attic.
snoonyb
11 years ago
HHHHHHHHMMMMMMMMM;

Another hand out for gimme,

with a mouth full of much obliged.
virgilcarter
11 years ago
I didn't hear the "much obliged". I heard "why are you questioning my question?" by someone who can't be bothered to look at his own house situation.

End of interest.
southerncanuck
11 years ago
For just a 4 foot opening in a 15 foot wall, and for just a few minutes, do I really need to go to all the trouble of constructing temporary supports for the ceiling?
No you don't have to go to any trouble for a 15 minute job. Or go down and get your ladder.
User
11 years ago
You probably don't need a tetanus shot and a hard hat and safety glasses either.
marcolo
11 years ago
Hush, people, I want to see how this ends.
virgilcarter
11 years ago
Chances are it won't end pretty.

Need Support When Installing Short Header on Load Bearing Wall??

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Need Support When Installing Short Header on Load Bearing Wall??

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