She wants to get the deal done. Whether it's reasonable for her to be unhappy about your unwillingness to counter depends on how realistic your offer was. What was the asking price, and what did you offer?

I'm not saying that this is the case with you, but some small number of buyers, in my experience, seem to have a strategy of making non-negotiable offers up to 30% below the market value in hopes of randomly finding someone on the brink of foreclosure who will take them. This is a waste of time for the agent and the seller, except in those rare circumstances, and can generate some irritation.

I offered what the REA said the buyer wanted to walk away with. When the REA took me round the house she said the seller was leaving many items (not that i was interested in them). When we returned for a second look, the buyer said that everything was for sale - to let her know what i wanted and she would give me a price. I felt that the REA had maybe misread the sellers hopes for the sale of the house and contents - and i was being punished for that.

Personally, I think if your offer "was countered" $30,000 more than your original offer, your offer was probably on the low side. If you "love the house" it seems silly not to counter back and forth so that both you and the seller are comfortable with the settlement price. As an agent, I would feel like you were "fishing" to find a distress sale, rather than trying to find a home you love. IF thats what you want, then you need to find a buyers agent, not call listing agents of property. I would feel like you wasted my time and the sellers time. If you don't want to counter back and forth, you should have another agent do a CMA and figure out what a fair price would be. The fact that she is the listing agent and told you what the owner wanted to walk away with would have me looking for another agent. That is totally unethical and would let me know that she was playing both sides of the fence. (Do you honestly believe she would be fair to you when talking to the seller?) She could lose her license for such an action.

On the other hand, if you're going to take the stance that "you don't counter", you should put in a reasonable offer. What the seller wants to walk away with is the bottom line after commission, not your offer.

Whether you're trolling for distress sales or not, I believe that's what it appears to be to your agent. She may feel that she's wasting her time and is understandably irritated.

You are basically refusing to negotiate, which is confusing to the REA and the seller. In most places negotiations are done a certain way, and you want to unilaterally change the rules. You may refuse to negotiate, of course. But you are not following the normal process and seem upset they aren't following merrily along.

Was your offer your best (truly best) offer, you aren't willing to pay more? Then walk away. If you are willing to pay more, then you should have offered more if you are going to refuse to negotiate like this.

I'm not certain what you are looking for from your post.

You made (possibly) a very low offer, got countered, and don't want to negoitiate.

That's the end of the story.

Can't blame the REA for perhaps being unhappy. Her job is to sell a house, your mission is suppose to be to buy one or more.

She MAY now feel all you're a lookie-loo, "buying' a house for yourself or for rental is just a game for you , while a living for herself.

You could just ask her, and get over the suspense.

I wouldn't worry that she was angry or upset - I certainly wouldn't be concerned she expected you to come up on a $30K difference - that is unless she was willing to pony-up the cash herself.

If you don't counter, you don't counter. The Realtor might have felt you were bluffing or just didn't believe you when you told her that. The cause for her being upset could also be that she verbally assured the seller you would come up, now you won't and she feels foolish. I wouldn't worry about that either.

If you looked at the comps and your bid was in-line with them, then the seller is priced too high and unlikely to ever sell at the price they would like. If you are fishing for a deal, good for you. Just develop a thicker skin. There is absolutely no reason to pay beyond your means or what the property is worth.

What's your goal on not making counter offers?

I admire you for sticking to your guns. You warned her that you don't counter. So what if the REA was not happy? That's not your problem. You're in the driver's seat.

Well, yeah, she's in the driver's seat, but she still doesn't have the home that she says she loves.

I have one client who never makes counter-offers, but he's an investor who makes reasonable offers the first time & who buys properties that need lots of work.

He never looks at well-maintained homes that would appeal to an owner-occupant buyer.

& sometimes he gets the house & sometimes he doesn't.

If you're looking for a home to live in, you're not likely to be looking at bargain-basement, investor-type properties, & just about any/every seller of a nice home is going to make a counter-offer, no matter what kind of seller it is:

Many banks, mortgage companies, relo companies, & property managers *automatically* counter every first offer.

If you aren't expecting that, & you declare going in that "I don't counter-offer", *& you stick to that declaration*, you'll limit your own options & may miss out on buying a home.

You have a lot of great feedback

1) If this agent was the one you were originally working with to find the properties and just happened to show you her listing which you loved; you should have gotten yourself another agent when you became serious about putting in an offer. Read what Linda said & read it a few times so that you don't make the same mistake twice.

2) If you still want this property, find another agent; then do your homework. Since the seller already countered, you know they won't go that low.

3) If you don't want to go higher, let the agent know that. Depending on what you offered, they might never consider your offer.

I don't see why you wouldn't especially if it's a house you loved for yourself. If it's for investment it shouldn't bother you.

Plenty of buyers bluff about counter-offers, so I can understand why your RE agent might have hoped that you would come up. We recently bought a home from the listing agent, so of course we bluffed about being able to negotiate. In that situation, I think bluffing helped us get a reasonable counter-offer, which we took.

Your agent probably thought you were bluffing too, since she probably sees that all the time. I personally would never share my bottom line with an agent because I think they will negotiate harder and potentially give up some of their commission if they worry that the deal won't happen. I am sure there are great agents out there who don't need that kind of motivation, but there are plenty more who do.

You were upfront and honest. Maybe you should have backed that up with 'you do understand, don't you?' in order to get your point across.

As a buyer, the ball IS in your court. It ain't a sellers market anymore. ;o)

Why withdraw your offer? Why not just let it stand until the seller either caves or finds a different buyer?

Withdrawing it would annoy me more than not negotiating would.

My short answer is, who cares?

I have no interest in my real estate agents feelings.

She/he's working for me, I'm paying them, end of story.

If they don't like it, too bad. If they complain about it, I find another one who's willing to work the way I want to work.

bess1 wrote: "I had told her at our first meeting that i do not counter offer."

The only one she should be angry with is herself, for not listening to you the first time you told her this.

linda117 wrote: "As an agent, I would feel like you were "fishing" to find a distress sale, rather than trying to find a home you love. IF thats what you want, then you need to find a buyers agent, not call listing agents of property. I would feel like you wasted my time and the sellers time."

"fishing to find a distress sale"? Why should bess1's reasons for purchasing be anyone else's business but hers? I would NEVER reveal to an agent how much I love a house. Unless I wanted to be taken advantage of....

"IF thats what you want, then you need to find a buyers agent, not call listing agents of property". Not call the listing agents? If bess1 doesn't have (or want) a buyer's agent, then who would you suggest she call BESIDES the listing agent? The owner?

bess1, Do you live in a state where you are required to have a buyer's agent?

30k below asking doesn't mean much if we don't know the asking price.

Not call the listing agents? If bess1 doesn't have (or want) a buyer's agent, then who would you suggest she call BESIDES the listing agent? The owner?

Dreamgarden, the point is, the listing agent works for the seller. If she doesnt "want or have" a buyers agent, it only takes a phone call to get one. It doesnt cost her anything. Right now, no one is working for her. Why would anyone NOT want a buyers agent unless you don't fully understand how it works

bess1, Do you live in a state where you are required to have a buyer's agent?

I dont know of any state that "requires" you to have a buyers agent. Its always a choice.

"fishing to find a distress sale"? Why should bess1's reasons for purchasing be anyone else's business but hers? I would NEVER reveal to an agent how much I love a house. Unless I wanted to be taken advantage of....

Because that is exactly what a buyers agent will do for you. Find you what you're looking for at the best possible price and terms they can get, FOR YOU.

If only it were all so lovely and clear cut that having a buyer's agent really makes sure someone is working for the buyer. I do have a buyer's agent. For the most part, I am satisfied that he has done a decent job for me. But now I am under contract & noticing that perhaps he is most interested in getting the deal closed (whether or not I have the best possible price or terms). So no, I don't think that a buyer's agent is the cure-all -- the buyer still needs to really be sure that the terms are in his/her best interest, no matter what the buyer's agent advises.

I, too, admire the OP. I wish that I had the focus to make an offer and walk away. My situation is that I need very unique property in a location with almost no inventory & we've found a property that entire family wants, so I feel a lot of pressure to try to make this happen.

I've recently sold a home & have been watching several markets quite closely. I've seen many, many properties sell for $30,000 below list price (and some for more than that). So I would suggest to OP to not give a fig about how the agent feels about her offer and to follow her gut.
Good luck
Susan

I rarely counter, and ALWAYS have strict time limits for the seller to mull things over. If an offer is not accepted, I'm outta there and continuing to look since new stuff comes on the market every day. No way am I going to let an unaccepted offer stand, I want to be free to continue to look. I am not trolling around for huge bargains either, I've always offered what I consider a fair price. BUT I have always done my homework, known what was for sale and about what it will SELL for. I don't like to waste my time and energy, or that of the agent or seller. I base my offers on what I am willing to pay for the property. Period. If the seller feels they need more, or needs special closing deals, rentbacks etc., I am not their buyer. I don't waste time arguing I move on. No hard feelings. Even if I love a house, I can always find another (and I am very, very picky). If the agent doesn't like it so what. Like you said it was her listing, she represents the SELLER. (and herself)

"She/he's working for me, I'm paying them, end of story.

If they don't like it, too bad. If they complain about it, I find another one who's willing to work the way I want to work."

Well, you know, she's *representing* her client.

which is not the same as washing dishes in her client's truck stop.

She is paid for her knowledge, skills, & advice, & part of that is knowing what works & what doesn't.

& she's an independent contractor.

Agents have their own ways of doing things, & they may decide not to work with a client who insists on doing things that just don't work.

It's very easy for a buyer to get delusions of power ala Donald Trump-
"I'll fire her & find somebody who's willing to work the way I say", & if what he wants is ego satisfaction, he can get it, at least for a while.

but if he wants to buy or sell a property, he'd be likelier to accomplish his goal if he would pay attention to what his representative tells him.

thanks all for your input. Interesting comments. I am still looking at houses in that area and am meeting with the same REA next week. I think that she misjudged the seller and didn;t believe that I don't counter offer, so now we can go forward to look at other houses. FYI the house was one of the top ten houses in the town price wise. Also when i go to buy cars I tell them upfront to give me their best offer - and then i compare it with other offers for the same vehicle. Have always managed to get a good price for what i want!

When you buy a car you are dealing with sales people, not individual home owners. You cannot expect the same kind of mind set. And it is much easier to compare cars than homes.

but if he wants to buy or sell a property, he'd be likelier to accomplish his goal if he would pay attention to what his representative tells him.

What do you mean by this comment, sounds like the agent didn't pay attention to what her client told her?
One can listen to their agent, but still make their own decision, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But, it is the client's money and future that is at stake, not the agent's.

"it is the client's money and future that is at stake, not the agent's."

Yes, that's the nature of things.

just like, when you write a will, it's your property & your family that are involved much more than the attorney who draws the document.

You aren't engaging an attorney, or a doctor, or a Realtor, to assume your position in your own life.

You're engaging that person to exercise his/her expertise to help you accomplish your goal.

If your goal is to buy a property, choose a representative you trust & with whom you work well, & use that representative's expertise to get you the property you want.

However, Realtors know that clients often, as someone said earlier, "bluff", sometimes even feeling that they must bluff their own agent.

& since this agent may not have been a a buyer's agent but a seller's agent or an intermediary, he/she might have taken "I don't make counter-offers" with a grain of salt.

If the buyer's goal is to buy, he/she needs to re-think "I don't make counter-offers":

Most sellers counter the first offer.

Had I been involved in this offer, I would have counselled the buyer to that effect, whether I were seller's agent, buyer's agent, or intermediary.

I agree I myself do not mind lots of counters, but the buyer did tell the agent she would not do that. So why be surprised.
I still stand by my comment of protecting my own money and future. I enjoy hearing an agent's advice, but I make my own offers.
With all due respect, I do not put the same value on an agent's advice as I do my doctor or attorney for that matter. Only an agent would try to make the positive comparison.
I like agent's, just got a great pocket listing from one this past weekend, but really, it just isn't the same.

Nobody said you shouldn't protect your money & your future.
In fact, I said you should, just as you would protect your own money & your own future when getting legal or medical advice.

Since the Agent now knows you won't counter, don't you think they will advise you to offer high the next time?

Isn't disclosing this issue going to hurt in the long run?

linda117 wrote: " Dreamgarden, the point is, the listing agent works for the seller. If she doesnt "want or have" a buyers agent, it only takes a phone call to get one. It doesnt cost her anything. Right now, no one is working for her. Why would anyone NOT want a buyers agent unless you don't fully understand how it works. Because that is exactly what a buyers agent will do for you. Find you what you're looking for at the best possible price and terms they can get, FOR YOU.

We know how buyers agents work and the one we used cost us plenty. In legal fees. She lost her job for screwing up our deal. She told us if there was a problem, her brokers attorneys would help. When push came to shove, we had to hire our own. Was this free? NO. Does your company provide legal services if an agent messes up? Or are they on their own?

You say a buyers agent doesn't cost anything to the buyer. Would you care to explain exactly HOW they are compensated?

bess1-Some food for thought about how you might be able to save a little money if you choose to use a buyers agent.

Buyer should negotiate compensation for agent

Last week we established that the buyer pays for everything in the purchase of a home. Why, then, does the seller negotiate the sales commissions?

The short answer is, because that's the way it's always been done. The longer answer is not as pretty: Historically, only sellers were represented in a real estate transaction, and, despite efforts at reform, the buyer is still often treated as a second-class citizen.

Consider the buyer's agent's bonus, for example. It will be there as plain as day in the listing: "Seller to pay buyer's agent a bonus of $5,000 for successful close of escrow by Aug. 31."

What does that say? It says in the plainest possible language that both the seller and the listing agent believe that the buyer's agent really works for the seller, not for the buyer. The objective of the bonus is to induce the buyer's agent to push the buyer into buying the home that is offering the bonus, rather than another.

The goal, motive and purpose of a buyer's agent's bonus are to give the buyer's agent an incentive to betray his agency. His fiduciary duty is to the buyer. The seller and the listing agent are using the bonus to "buy" his fidelity.

So what should a buyer's agent do, when showing a home for which a bonus is offered? Disclose the bonus to the buyer and commit to either waiving the bonus or passing it through to the buyer. There should be no doubts in the buyer's mind about the agent's loyalties.

But there's more to this issue: If the seller can negotiate compensation with the listing agent, why can't the buyer negotiate compensation with the buyer's agent?

The short answer is, because it's never been done that way. The longer answer is not as pretty: Often, buyer's agents infantilize buyers. "Our services cost you nothing," Realtors say. "The seller pays for everything."

In fact, the buyer pays for everything. The seller negotiates what the listing agent will be paid. But the buyer can - and should - negotiate the buyer's agent's compensation.

Dreamgarden, so far I've never been pressured into buying any home. I go online, look at listings that I want to see, then see them with an agent that I pick. If the agent is smart they will realize they work for you. An unhappy buyer will tell their friends.

dreamgarden, that is why a good real estate attorney is a necessity in every real estate transaction.

You say a buyers agent doesn't cost anything to the buyer. Would you care to explain exactly HOW they are compensated?

Dreamgarden, they are compensated with a portion of the commission paid to the listing agent. The listing agent takes a commission for say 6%, she then offers 3% (or whatever her and the seller agree to offer) to the buyers agent who may sell the home.

Buyer should negotiate compensation for agent

You are absolutely free to negotiate commission with a buyers agent at any time, it is legal and often done, especially when the buyer wants something specific and is willing to pay someone to find it and negotiate it for him.

Last week we established that the buyer pays for everything in the purchase of a home. Why, then, does the seller negotiate the sales commissions?

The seller is the one who hires the agent to "sell their home". I'm sure you wouldnt get an argument out of the majority of sellers if the buyers agent was being compensated by their buyers. The fact is, they pay their agent to sell their home and part of their agent selling that home is offering compensation to other realtors thru MLS to show and hopefully sell it.

Historically, only sellers were represented in a real estate transaction, and, despite efforts at reform, the buyer is still often treated as a second-class citizen

This is a totally ridiculous statement and I hardly think most people would agree with you on this. Most buyers wouldnt stand for being treated like a second class citizen and would simply choose to find another agent.

Consider the buyer's agent's bonus, for example. It will be there as plain as day in the listing: "Seller to pay buyer's agent a bonus of $5,000 for successful close of escrow by Aug. 31."

What does that say?,

It says that the seller is motivated, he will pay a bonus if an agent SHOWS and SELLS his property. It gets him more activity on his house and in turn that usually brings a buyer. No one can talk someone into buying a home. Not once have I ever heard, "we really didnt like this home, our agent forced us to buy it". The bonus drives activity to the home, if the agent is lucky enough to sell it, hooray for them, if not, they move on to the next house.

But there's more to this issue: If the seller can negotiate compensation with the listing agent, why can't the buyer negotiate compensation with the buyer's agent?
Again you can if you want to, but its already built in to the price of the house, if you want to "negotiate it further" you do it with your offer.

I take it very personal what I am able to negotiate for my buyers. A $10,000 price increase for them is only about $200 in my pocket. Its not something I even think about when Im negotitating. I negotiate very hard and if I think the house isnt worth what they are willing to pay, I tell them. If we can't get it for that price, we find another one. On the other hand, if I have a buyer who is unrealistic about what they can get for their money, I tell them that too.

I have a buyer's agent right now -- house under contract. A nice & decent guy -- it's been a long search for the unique property we need. Wish I could say that he has really protected and negotiated a great deal for us. Actually, he has been totally ineffective and has not saved us a penny. It is a tough local market that we're aiming for, but next should this deal fall, I'll will definitely go to the listing agent because I've seen that often the motivation of the "whole commission" helps the buyers in the long run.

My daughter did this recently when she bought a small farm. Her friend told her that it was really a bad idea to be represented by the listing agent & she replied, "What difference does it really make?" And in this competitive situation, she ended up with the contract.
Susan

I have my house under contract, and will be closing next week. In our state the listing realtor can also be the buyer's agent. When I asked my realtor how she would handle negotiations when she represented both parties she told me that she COULD NOT share any information with either party regarding what their bottom line/top offer would be. When she did bring an interested buyer she let me decide the counter offer and suggested that the buyer get advice from others if they weren't clear on what they wanted to offer.

I think that it was not ethical for your realtor to share with you what she knew to be the seller's bottom line, since it was the seller who had hired her.

I agree Susana, going directly to the listing agent is usually the fastest easiest way to get the best deal. I never disclose my bottom line to anyone.

A buyer's agent is NOT working for you.

He's working for HIMSELF. Somebody has to pay for that big fancy schmancy car they squire you around in.

YOU are the only one working for you. And your RE attorney, if you get a good one.

The more money you pay for a property, the more money both RE agents make.

It's such a DUH thing I don't understand why more people are surprised when their realtor lets them down or outright screws them.

They have no incentive to get you the best deal, they'll probably never see you again!

They are a dime a dozen, and they know it.

Most of them will get your listing, take half a dozen awful pictures, and proceed to eventually get you in the MLS with a dozen errors, and forget about you until the house is sold, when they show up for their check.

Or they show you around to houses you can't afford, in a bad area of town, lie about how wonderful it is, and hope you fall for it. Then they don't bother to show up for closing.

The whole system is rotten to the core.

Disneyrsh, you must have had some horrible agents in your past. However, to sterotype "all agents" because you haven't had a good experience is just wrong. There are buyers agents out there that LOVE to get their clients the best deal. I believe I posted one scenario not too long ago where a client absolutely fell in love with a house I showed him for $369,900. He wanted to put an offer in for $365,000. I talked him out of it. It was overpriced. Long story short. He is now buying a similar house for somewhere around $322,000. (I can't remember the figure without going thru my file right now and its 5am, so thats not happening). He would have bought this house and not been able to sell if for what he paid. What he bought was $43,000 less than that house. Do I make less money? Yes, do I have a client for life? Yes. They have no incentive to get you the best deal, they'll probably never see you again! They won't be in the business very long. Business is built on referrals and happy customers.