Perfect lot/ not so great layout

9 years ago

We've seen a house that's been listed for awhile now. So first the good: It's awe-mazing! The drive into the neighborhood will lower your blood pressure. A view of the county, which is rare in this relatively flat area. Beautiful horse farm across the back fence. Surrounded by nature. Well kept estate homes surround the lot. Impressive mature landscaping. Heated poool. Next the ...meh, something's just not right: the house's layout just doesn't seem....right. The kitchen is kinda closed off, but still visible from the dining area. The master feels small. The stairwell is dark. There's an open space upstairs that just doesn't make sense. The whole thing just gave us an off feeling. This house is actually listed above our budget, but was listed $50k less two years ago.when it was last listed. It has already been lowered $20k from the original price this round.

Is it feasible to get a layout changed for $20k, and would it be bad to offer the $50k less that we know they were asking 2 yes ago? This is a hot market, most homes sell under a week, and this house just isn't moving.

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Comments (9)

lyfia
9 years ago
Without seeing what the layout looks like there is no way to answer if you can do it for 20K or not. All depends on load bearing walls and what is involved in moving or removing walls. Plumbing, electrical, flooring, etc. Of course if you have DIY knowledge and can do a lot yourself then it would be that or less. Just depends on what needs to be done.

I'm of the opinion to just make an offer. If it is not accepted then you haven't lost anything.
C Marlin
9 years ago
I agree make an offer. If the location is good, you can change the layout.
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Here is rough sketch with approximate dimensions. I have tried to make as much sense as possible of dimensions in your diagram. I think dimensions on my diagram are within the ballpark for most part. Depending on their accuracy, your closet space will get crunched a bit. I also took the liberty to close off the direct door from the kitchen because I think it is not essential. The idea I was toying with was that if you are ready to place a glass wall between the lounge and the tub then you can watch TV while sitting in the tub. For this specific purpose the tub is located lengthwise. Also, I decided not to relocate your vanity because you show it under a window, and I assumed that it is the best vanity location you could find under light conditions. Ideally, I would prefer to combine the sink vanity and the make up vanity under the window. Notice that the opening between the retreat and the actual bath area is almost 5'. You do not need such a big door. I would suggest that you place the entry near to the tub and use that small stretch of wall between the doorway and the shower door for placing the dresser for your husband. Sorry, forgot to draw it and it's too late now to go back and add it. Also made the door to the deck open outwards -- not sure if this is what you want! I'm sure others will suggest even better changes to this. This is just a start and I enjoyed it!
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Part of why I suggested putting the big ref on the back wall is to eliminate the turn at the ref. The ref where the ovens are and the ovens at "alt-ref" can work too. Not at the original ref location because its kinda bad to have the open oven doors and somebody seated at the stools. It's ok for a micro, but not for something where the doors are hot. My personal preference would be to not have oven doors in a traffic aisle. Looking at it again, maybe park an inexpensive drinks ref on the dining room wall if you retain full depth cabinets. A nice looking dorm undercounter or one of those 2x2 ref-frz like the small lg unit. Possibly a bar sink on the dining room wall run for a complete drinks area there. If it has the pantry and a microwave, it easily becomes the express food area for kids. If you want, you can buy a simpler, maybe smaller main ref without water and ice in the door. The prep sink question is a good one. In this arrangement, you might not actually need one on the island (five people will chime in and disagree)! Its a bit more convenient, but not much. If the main ref moves to the back wall, you need one on the island even less. If the main ref moves to where the ovens are shown, you should have one - so that you don't have to cross the cooking area to get to the water. Where exactly it goes is partly dependent on what type of ref you're getting. A sxs or a french door needs landing space opposite the ref - behind you when you're standing in front of it. A single door ref needs landing space to the side without the hinges. So a single door ref, put the sink in the lower right corner of the island as drawn. A two door ref, the upper right corner. The other question about island width was a place I didn't use enough words (again). Without an appliance, the entire run of cabinets on the dining room wall could be less deep by 6 to 12" and the island could take up those inches in width.
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I'm going to take this question as a philosophical one rather than a concrete one. :) THe thing is, we don't use our kitchens differently! At least, not that differently. :) Food comes into the kitchen, and gets stored. Dry storage and cold storage. For that, you consider the traffic path and any possible encumberances from the exterior all the way to the primary storage spot. Now, the amount of each type of storage can change based on family size and real estate available, but the need itself doesn't change. Then, food is removed from that storage, washed, and prepared for consumption. If all that's being prepared is box mac and cheese, then you don't need a lot of space to spread out the prep for that, but you still do need access to the measuring cups, pots and pans, and water. You'll always need some counter space and water during prep. And if you're doing Thanksgiving dinner, the more prep space the better. There's not really any such thing as too much prep space, as long as it includes access to water designated for that prep alone. This consumes the most time spent in a kitchen, and therefore should receive the lions's share of space. It's the only true work space, really. All other counter space is secondarily occupied if at all. Then comes applying the fire to the food. That can be a microwave heating a freezer dinner, or it can be standing and stirring a roux for 20 minutes while it reaches it's perfect brown color. Actually doing this step takes much less time than people think! Even if you do a lot of slow cooking sauces, if you've got the right tools to keep them at a simmer, you don't need but to periodically stir. After you've started to make a pile of dirty prep things, then comes stowing them away in the cleanup zone, or, if you've designed the kitchen correctly and have a partner, the partner can take the dirty prep items and be loading the DW with them while you are still chopping up a storm. That's what separating the prep and cleanup functions well can do for you. And it's not necessary to have that second source of water in a kitchen to do that, you just need to get over the idea of symmetry in a lot of cases and allocate the majority of space for the side that serves the prep. There have been many kitchens that have been designed here over the years that have done a good job of keeping the zones distinct and separate, yet compact, and minimizing outside intrusion into the high traffic areas while actually allocating enough space to those high use areas. That's all that good kitchen design IS, actually! Breezy's kitchen and Bee's kitchen both come to mind as being fairly close to "ideal" as far as the mythically perfectly designed kitchen. But reality is that no one designs the perfect kitchen and then designs the home around it! There are always tradeoffs. Money and space always come into play, and never in a good way! LOL! Even in homes that are being designed from scratch, bigger usually doesn't generate better. 50 steps between the prep sink and range is so much worse than having a step and pivot. It's like biology, when an organism reaches a certain size, the actual volume enclosed makes it so unwieldy that it's just not successful.
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User
9 years ago
20K barely buys a kitchen refresh keeping the same cabinets. If this is a the top of your budget, better not count on doing any renovations. Learn to love it's awkwardness, oleave it be. You're not gonna have funds for a teardown unless the price is lowered by 3/4, and maybe not even then.
pixie_lou
9 years ago
Did the house sell 2 years ago when it was last listed? I'm wondering if it's the same owners trying to sell for a second time? Or new owners trying to get out of a crappy layout?

You never know what is motivating a seller. Or what they will accept. You can always offer. No guarantee they will accept.

It definitely sounds like you don't have the funds for a major renovation. So unless you can live with the layout this may not be he house for you.
detroit_burb
9 years ago
around here, people are paying 300K for a "refresh" of homes built in the 1940's for about 3200 square feet.

that is above the price they pay for the home which at this time is in the 500K - 575K range.

Many regions are much cheaper, but it is much more expensive to rehab an old home with a bad layout than to build brand spanking new around here.

If you are heart-set on the place, walk thru with a design/build company to get an idea.

If it is not selling in a hot market, people with much more experience than you are balking for a good reason. Markets are cyclical and it won't be hot for long.

The same homes that people are paying 575 for now in my neighborhood went for 275 four years ago.
chispa
9 years ago
"horse farm across the back fence"

Have you ever had horses or a neighbor who had them? This would be a BIG negative for many people. I love horses, I ride horses, but I do not want them in my back yard. The smell, the flies, oh my!

I'm in a high cost of living area and $20k would barely make a dent in the cost of a whole house layout remodel.
weedyacres
9 years ago
There's no way to answer your question on price without seeing a layout and knowing what would need to be changed. I would not buy a house with a layout defect that couldn't be fixed.

Just about anything can be changed, but there are some exceptions. One thing I hate is front doors that open right into the stairs. There were a couple houses I looked at when recently shopping that were great on everything except the stairs. I walked all around to try and figure out if they could be reconfigured, and there literally were no options because of room placement around the stairway.

So see if you can go back and sketch out a floorplan. Post it here (or in Remodeling) with the problems and we can give you a read on how big a job it would be to fix things.
lethargo
Original Author
9 years ago
Thanks so much for your input everyone!

We are the edge of the Detroit burbs, obviously where there are horses. I should have said equestrian club, not horse farm. It's very nice, a LOT of space for a few horses. The house is for sale by the same owners as 2 years ago. I fear people are overlooking because of layout, though there was also water in the basement. We'd obviously have to look into the water issue-that may be the reason for no sale as well. We're putting the house on the back burner for now...

We've decided to ask the developer is we can bring our own builder, there are some very nice lots left and the neighborhood hasn't had any action in over 5 years. Fingers crossed we can work that out.
eandhl
9 years ago
One thing you can never change about a home is location!

Perfect lot/ not so great layout

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Perfect lot/ not so great layout

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