auntjen: Okay, I understand. But this thread has gone beyond people expressing hurt feelings and has moved into a let's-hate-on-Chelone direction. It just makes me uncomfortable for people to bond at the expense of somebody else--and to do so publicly seems to me to be just as bad, if not worse, than what everybody is accusing Chelone of doing.

I think Ree should just (finally!) show us all her backsplash so we can focus on something beautiful instead. :-)

Ree,
I did not realize he was truly a friend....your kids being friends and all....I would have done exactly as you have done!! The guy we got in a tiff with was not really our friend but thru friends of friends. My only tiff with anyone ever working for me.

The most important thing is you LOVE your backsplash:)

Can't wait to see pics.....

Hey OS, I don't think the ''SOB'' comment was an expletive at all. Doesn't it mean "Scroll On By" in cyber-parlance?

ree -- just chiming to to chant, pictures, pictures, pictures!

"But this thread has gone beyond people expressing hurt feelings and has moved into a let's-hate-on-Chelone direction. It just makes me uncomfortable for people to bond at the expense of somebody else"

OS, I disagree with you on this. I've been hanging around cyberworld a long time and what sometimes happens, and I think is happening in this case, is that an individual who is abrasive and unpleasant is tolerated for a period of time and then finally the tipping point is reached. The attacks, the sarcasm, the nastiness finally outweigh any value given in providing support or advice. At that point, the majority of the other people in the group decide they aren't willing any more to sit silently and allow it to go unaddressed.

I'll confess that I have let a lot of comments pass by that bothered me on behalf of others. I vividly recall a sarcastic remark to a poor mom who asked how to get projects done with young children. The response was to the effect that she was a whiner, that the pioneers just got on with it and so should she. And this from a woman who has never had a child herself! And that's just one of many, many examples. This isn't being a New Englander, or blunt, or honest. It is being rude and nasty. It bothered me, I had the urge to respond and say knock it off--but I didn't. And I should have. Frankly, from now on I will and I won't let myself be cowed. If enough people on an online forum decide to speak up in defense of the attacked, then perhaps unpleasant people either will be quiet or become more socialized.

So, I disagree this is bashing, or bonding over being mean to someone. I think it's the virtual equivalent of a town meeting to address a problem. And as for Chelone, she doesn't seem to be shy about defending herself and repeatedly declaring she feels perfectly fine about how she interacts on the forum. Well, so do I. After all, "I am what I am" .

Ann

reeree_natural - I have passed up this thread several times, and finally took a look at your "sticker shock".

Now I have to say that I am shocked at the price you had to pay for your backsplash. I feel your pain!

And to think I thought my tiled backsplash quote was high. LOL

I just pulled the two quotes out and they are as follows:

Installing 60 square feet tumbled stone tile + installing 10 feet chair, 4 small and one large aged iron tile w/inset on diagonal.

#1 -
$450 - Labor - Does not include grout or materials.

#2 -
$700 - Labor - Does not include grout or materials.
Tile provided by contractor - Additional $500

Tile bought by homeowner. $611 includes tax

I picked out Daltile and planned on the following design.

{{gwi:1701341}}

Ree, I'm glad you were able to vent here, step back and look at the beautiful backsplash job your tiler did, realize and accept your part in the financial side of things, and still hand over your check with good grace and keep the friendship. I think that is the best resolution here. And I hope for photos when you can get them here too. Perhaps, (may I kindly suggest??) starting a Brand new thread for the photos?

We had our kitchen done 2 years ago and had a written estimate. They did the demo, granite counters, installed the stove-top, DW, sink, and faucet, and tiled the backsplash. It got done Extremely cheaply--very, very quickly, and we were completely pleased. However........and this is a BIG however........I did not check references, I did not ask if he was licensed, I did not even find out where his shop was or get a business or personal address from him. I'm usually right on top of things and I am so galled with myself that I took so much for granted. I set myself up for a very big fall. Fortunately, that didn't happen. But it certainly was not due to the business sense of my husband or myself. So, from that personal vantage point, I do see how you came to be holding the bill at the end. And it's not pretty nor pleasurable to know that you should have done things differently. I know.

The sensible side of my brain, the part that sometimes sees these very volatile threads, reads the pointed comments and hears the hurt in the writing.........says to stop right now like I usually do and Stay Out of It. But you all can see that I've decided to leave my sense of reason behind and make my comment. So.......

Since we are not being shy about using Chelone's name, and since I've been on GW for a few years and have 'read' her before, I know she will roll with this. She has before. Sometimes, I do think she goes too far, phrases in a way that provokes bristling on the part of others, and might be the sort of person I would wander away from if a (in Real life) conversation got too blunt. Yes. Sometimes I do get annoyed at 'reading' Chelone. I might add about six or seven other names here (at Garden Web) that have a similar effect on me, but this is not a bashing attempt, it is an attempt to make peace a bit.

There have been many other times that I've much enjoyed Chelone's knowledge, skill at explaining things, and posts. So in an attempt to be fair, I copied all of her commentary on THIS thread into a word document, so I could just re-read without anything else coming into play.

My opinion, just re-reading? Chelone was blunt, direct, misunderstood in the beginning that the man doing the tiling was a friend, not necessarily a tradesman, and she made a remark about 'taking ownership' that I believe she meant as 'taking responsibility for part of the blame for the charges' and that remark set some people off. She also commented near the end, that many take things far too personally. She's right. Many of us do. And I didn't see anything really 'rude' about the content of what she had to say. Her delivery was unfortunate.

Unless I'm reading everything wrong, Ree mostly started this thread to vent.......to express to some of us who have no personal stake in her life, that she was very unhappy with a situation that she felt she let get out of control. She also wanted some validation, that maybe the total bill was high for such a small job. I doubt that Ree ever intended for one moment to call this guy on his final billing. She just needed somewhere to express her frustration. Her final handling of the situation was perfect, in my opinion.

Maybe C. came on a little too strong. Maybe she rubs some of us the wrong way at times. Goodness knows, I know that I rub people the wrong way at times. Let's just get over this one and value the people on this forum for what they do well, and maybe extend to each of them a little understanding for what they don't.

My brain hurts.
Red

lol..I need to borrow a camera!called my friend and waiting for her to drop it off..it's coming! :) I want to post so I can finally show you... the kitchen is still not finished, waiting on the molding guy..that might be my next post if he doesn't show up soon..(only kidding...hehe) and I am still pulling my hair out in the knob dept. but think I found the ones I probably will buy from Horton brasses.

johnatemp
yes, our boys are best friends. his wife is a total doll, all in all they are a very nice family..I guess thats why I was taking it personally..?? he just might be a slow ass..LOL! it is terrible when home owners have to face these issues, it kind of takes the excitement out of something we work hard for and want to enjoy..at least you didn't have to lose a really good friend, that would of been horrible.

Organic
I can see you have a heart and a big one. and maybe you are right about bringing up someone.. but what I see, she is far from shy and can defend herself . I think the members are very disgusted with many nasty, outspoken posts time and time again. So what she has valuable opinions to share, the trade off is not worth putting up with the way she treats people. your right she says things directly to the poster, but isnt it still on a public forum that everyone can read ? That is very humiliating . When someone tells her she is out of line, she writes she doesnt care and has no qualms about saying so. I say if you make the bed, lay in it no matter where you are from there is no reason to hurt or embarrass someone I am not referring to just myself , to others as well I was taught you treat others as you want to be treated . If she can freely dish it out, she should be able to swallow it as she expects others to gracefully do. An old fashioned apology is good for the soul.. Please do not take this directed at you, it's not at all, I am just responding in how I feel after I read your post. It's off my chest and I will not comment again ;)
Ree

I think it's the virtual equivalent of a town meeting to address a problem.

It's more like a lynching, and it's really kind of distasteful, especially when on one hand people are talking about how you need to be "nice" and how "nice" Chelone isn't and on the other hand are taking her curt manner as license to be as nasty as they want to be against her.

I, too, reread the original "mean" post and didn't see anything mean in it. Maybe she could have used a better phrase than "wake up call" to express frustration at the fact that people think that $35/hr is way too much for a skilled tradesman (and the guy did a good job so can we at least admit he has SOME skill worth paying for?), but for the rest of the post? I don't see what's so bad about it, or her subsequent posts on this thread. I do agree that sometimes she phrases things in a crappy way and have myself in the past told her to can it when she has.

I'm not saying she's always good and she's certainly far from perfect (as are all of us), but I do think that anyone who thinks carrying on a thread talking about how awful she is and how justified you are in carrying on this public lynching because you are on the side of goodness and light and all that is beautiful in the universe makes you look like a hypocrite. I see way more nastiness from the people who have decided they are going to take this opportunity to tell her off than from what she originally said.

I totally agree with OS though and honestly I don't see how carrying on this kind of conversation about anyone can be considered a good thing.

I might add that another dynamic I often see, on this board and others, is that people who basically do *NOT* enjoy or choose to be argumentative or critical will often back down when those who do have the drive to keep battling go on and on and on...

And in that light, Lisa and OS, I stand by my thoughts. I disagree with you, I don't think anything said about her in this discussion is anything close to as nasty as Chelone consistently is to others. I don't feel badly for her, and I think she needs to learn some virtual manners or else accept that people aren't going to take it without lashing back anymore.

And as you both so often point out, this is all fine. I have my right to an opinion, just as you have yours. A fairly large group of people seem to agree with me. Another group agrees with you.

I'm entitled to post what I want as is anyone else on this group. Since that is what you are basically saying about Chelone, I'm invoking the same right.

Ann

newhomebuilder
just when I started feeling a wee bit better...lol!
I have always admired your beautiful house. your tile is gorgeous and I can't believe 60sf at that price..good for you ..I would of been thrilled with those estimates... hope mine made you feel better :) We spent about $550.00 on tile and (14) (5 4x4's, 8 2x2's) inserts , they were installed with in the 3 middle rows of tumbled marble subway. I only have 2' 5" of chair rail. (you'll see when I get a picture on here) we bought the tile at Procida.. in some cases some contractors charge the cost of the material... (that would of been nice too!) thanks for sharing your picture & costs with me..made me feel I wasn't crazy :)
Ree

Red
I will post pictures on a new post for sure, I wrote that a few posts back.. it will be a 'happy' place :)

I am so happy you didn't take that fall..that would of been a very bad situation..you were a smart cookie!

your are right, I never would have said a word, at first I was really up set about the grand total of 1600.00, I honestly feel better now and I have calmed down a lot..

you have a heart like organic, I really am the same way.. but Red, some things in life are just not tolerable , to me anyway..but I do appreciate your thoughts.
Thanks for sharing!
Ree

you know...it's probably a perspective thing (the issue with chelone) if she's never publicly insulted you, or she hasn't decided to vocalize her view of your ethics...you probably can just chalk it up to her brash NE ways. but if, on the other hand, you've had the woman pubicaly call you a slimy, immoral pig...well you might not feel so charitable towards her.

i know many lovely people from NE and you insult them in saying that this is how they act normally. she's a horrible little person and sometimes people just get tired of horrible little people and call them out on the issue.

i'm a fairly friendly person with a very big heart. it takes an amazing amount of abuse to make me say that someone is horrible, but in this case...she paints the picture does she not.

if it's a lynching....for gads sake pull the stupid string and lets be done with it and we can all go forward with our days knowing that at least for 24 hours, you can ask a question without fear of attack. after that, some other little troll will take her place and the internet will go on...

ree, i'm glad the payoff went well and he's happy with your view of his work. lesson learned to be sure :) but in the end, an ok one if you retained a good friend and got a lovely new kitchen backsplash!

my backsplash has a ways to go :) thje whole job had to be held up 3 months while i was back east with my 2 year old at johns hopkins. so far all i have are my chickens (not part of the quote i mentioned)
{{gwi:1701343}}

and half of a venetian plaster wall...which was all i got done before a defective ladder broke while under me :( monday night i crushed the radius bone in my wrist when i fell....wednesday they did the first surgery :( which means it might be a while before i get the rest of that plaster done lol but someday when its finished i promise to share...if its as good as yours heh heh

chic
ouch!!! I am so sorry to hear this.. hope you heal quickly, geezz..from a ladder no less.
Your son, I am so sorry, I didn't know anything about him. I hope your sweet baby is ok! prayers are with him :)

I LOVE your chickens! wow..that is gorgeous! How many pieces was that? When I was in the tile store, I fell in love with so many art inserts, but it would have looked too busy in my little area :( the way I had the tile laid out, it gives an illusion of larger space because I took the tile past where the counter/ stove ends to the end of the wall. everyone who has seen it told me the kitchen looks bigger. The way the PO laid this kitchen out was horrible. placement looks like it wasn't well thought out. It is also very dark which was my main issue, which almost lead me to paint my soild cherry wood cabinets..that was a huge no-no here, and I am happy you guys saved me from doing it.

I will start a new post with pictures as soon as my friend lends me her camera..I left her a message and I am waiting...shame on me for not getting a new one, can't tell you how sick I am of taking pictures , especially of the kids on my camera phone..lol
heal quickly and feel better..(your typing very well one handed :)
Ree

I've been hanging around cyberworld a long time and what sometimes happens, and I think is happening in this case, is that an individual who is abrasive and unpleasant is tolerated for a period of time and then finally the tipping point is reached. The attacks, the sarcasm, the nastiness finally outweigh any value given in providing support or advice. At that point, the majority of the other people in the group decide they aren't willing any more to sit silently and allow it to go unaddressed.

This sums up how I feel exactly. And since this is a public forum where Chelone posts, I feel this is the proper way to "voice" it. It is *not* behind her back. It's right here in front of everyone.

I too have had it, and started posting objections way back on Daisy's thread where she called her child a "screw up". That's when I'd just had all I could stand.

The trouble is that she apparently sees nothing wrong in her approach, doesn't care how she's perceived, and so probably doesn't think to check back in on threads where she may have rankled people. I know she never addressed my post on Daisy's thread, so I'm assuming she just never checked back in. I don't think that makes it behind anyone's back. We're trying to address her in the posts that cause problems, after all.

I have NorEaster family members, and I think it's a cop out to excuse behavior just because of a supposed geographical bent.

I get that some of you want to keep this nice and don't want to see anyone hurt. I applaud your instincts. I know you all have the best of intentions. However, I can't help feeling like the original hurt has been forgotten about in the fray.

Ree said she felt publicly humiliated. Wow.

That's an embarrassment to this forum. And earlier in the week, the window treatment girl said something along those lines, insinuating that she didn't feel welcome here.

Those are the issues, to me.

reno_fan: Mainers ARE very straightforward. They just are. Generally speaking, of course. I don't think I'm "copping out" by noting that. In addition, I did say that I thought Chelone was rude in this case.

decorpas: With all due respect, I still think that the comments being made about Chelone--however other posters feel about her--have now reached the point that they are WAY more rude and mean than anything Chelone said on this thread. And I'm sorry, but I think there is just no excuse for that. JMO.

thanks ree, someday my little mann will be well :) i won't let him be anything else!

the chickens are just one big piece (ok thousands of small...bu all glued to one mosaic mat) they'll be surrounded by nordic black antique granite. the spendy stuff to install is this subway tile....which is on two other walls opposite the chickens:
{{gwi:1437848}}

awh..I am sure your brave little man will be just fine.. your uplifting positive out look has a lot to say for its self and you cant beat a mothers love! The best of two medicines..big, big hug!

OMG~~~ ! Can't wait to see your tile and granite all together, everything you have is gorgeous and coordinates beautifully! LOVE it all..triple wow!! that is a huge piece of mosaic chickens..I was thinking it was 4 to 6 pieces put together!

ok..I am back to hating my kitchen again..lol!
Ree

I'd like to mention that this thread veered back on topic at some point and I felt good about that. We found some GRACE to get us through a disfunctional moment, something all families have, and I kind of consider us a family. Opinions were voiced and we moved on.

That is, until someone with a grudge, and others ready to jump on the wagon, decided we needed another go 'round. Why can't we summon some of that GRACE Reeree has exemplified in this process?

Some of you who have spoken out against Chelone are people I respect very much. But I think we need to rise above this and let it go.

igloochic - You poor thing...you have really had your share. :( I was on a ladder today, standing on one foot, while one arm was stretched out to the ceiling to screw something. All I could think of is "I am leaving on a big trip in three weeks and I shouldn't be up here." LOL Luckily, nothing happened.

I keep thinking about your little boy and hope he is doing better with his eating.

igloochic - I should have been more clear in my post. I HAVE NOT had the tile work done yet (did you see my mirror backsplash thread?)because it was so expensive. The photo is from a magazine of the design I want. Even though my quote is better than yours, we will still put off the work for a while.

Can't wait to see your million dollar job! :)

PS - I sure hope your tile friend doesn't read these boards.

OS, I wasn't just referring to you. I've seen the same "It's a North Eastern thing" before.

Amy, I agree that we need to move on, but I also think it was/is important to say something if there is a repeated problem. (I suppose "problem" is relative, but I do happen to think it's a problem.)

If we don't want big brother GWeb monitoring our halls, I think we have to stand in for those that appear to be unfairly attacked. (Though I agree this particular post is less offensive than several others where people's children were called "screw ups" and parenting was questioned.) I just think this is one of those fairly innocuous posts that was just the straw that broke the camel's virtual back.

newhome
oh, sorry I miss understood...I thought that was your kitchen in the picture... did you move again? I thought your house was all done (and to the nines :)

I was thinking the same thing..I hope no one in his family comes on here..yikes! that would be horrible..any way to delete posts? lol
Ree

Ree, I would think your tiler friend would be willing to lend you his camera for the pics that we can't wait to see!!! Who knows, maybe we'll all say "$1600 what a deal" although it doesn't matter. What matters is that you are one classy lady who cares about her friends and has a beautiful backsplash.

igloo, how do you know that she hasn't? I've been around a long time and changed names when my account went kerfluey in the changeover a while back. Believe me, chelone was one of the first names that I noticed around here.

That said, amy really summed up how I'm feeling. I didn't say anything about the initial response to what was said because IMO that's a conversation. Someone throws something out there, people respond. It was just when it suddenly came back up again as the topic had wound down that it started to feel more like a public calling out than a conversation.

It's clear many of you feel justified because of past posts to jump on this particular one (and thank you reno for recognizing that what she said here was not so bad). I'm not much for censorship as most of you know and it IS your right to express your opinion, however I just don't think it's right to jump on EVERYTHING that someone says because something in the past that she did pissed you off. This is not the first time that this has happened but in my mind, it's the least justified time. I also find it a little ironic that just a week or two ago RIP was giving lessons in how to "be a lady" by holding your tongue in the face of nastiness and has been one of the most vocal people on this thread both in regard to trashing Chelone and then defending her actions in doing so.

Like I said, I'm not defending every single past action of Chelone. There have been times when I, myself, have told her to cut the crap out. It just seems like because of past posts that she's made there is a mob out there waiting to jump on everything she says and if she doesn't fall in line and post exactly the way you want her to, there will be a 100+ post all about what a rotten person she is. That's not fair either and as has been pointed out, two wrongs don't make a right.

I think there has to be some give and take around here and acknowledgement that she is going to have the tone that she has. The crux of what she said is that skilled labor IS worth the price that was charged and that as the client you need to take responsibility for protecting yourself, even with a "friend." This is sound advice delivered in her typical no-nonsense style. Past posts notwithstanding, she didn't call anyone here on this post a screwup or any other nasty names. I understand calling someone on true nastiness but I just don't see it here, but then again I'm not looking for it as hard as some seem to be.

OK, I won't pile it on further, and instead will be constructive.

Chelone, try doing this: write the response you want to make, then pause, take a deep breath, read what you have written, and then hit the BACK button and don't post your reply.

Lisa, I think the reason (for me, at least) that it may appear people are "jumping on" one particular poster is that we're trying to address the person where they are actively posting.

I don't know why, but I would feel really presumptious to send an email directly Chelone, with cut and pasted quotes from the past 3 threads that have really left my jaw hanging open. Similarly, I would feel it completely wrong to go running to the GWeb recess monitors. Starting a new thread to address these types of issues are much more of a public hanging as well, so that leaves trying to address the person in a thread they're currently active in. It's not so much just feeling justified and waiting to pounce, but rather feeling like the last 7 things I tried to get across got lost in cyberspace because of the thread rolling by, and trying to get her ear while she's active on a thread.

I do see that just the attempt to "catch her ear" would make it look as if I had some sort of all-important opinion that the universe just needs to have spoken so the earth doesn't fall from it's axis. I know it matters not one whit, and probably matters even less to Chelone, but there *have* been threads that were grossly innapropriate, IMO, and like was posted above, there just comes a point where you feel you have to say something, so you try to find the most likely place that person will be; i.e., a thread they've been active on.

Just my $.02, I'm from New England and I'm really, really nice and kind.
Love you all!

What a load. It's a shame a forum of grown adults actually needs a recess monitor. Sometimes that's what management is for. Thinking back on a number of threads, where the same arguments come up, with some defending the abuser and bad behavior of all things -- I personally, don't see why, if a poster is unkind, they can't be called on their bad behavior. Especially if no one is monitoring the boards to keep things in line. I hate oppression, but I don't think that's what free speech is about. And, when they are called, those people get trashed for being just the same. That's ridiculous. Ignoring is a good option but doesn't always work and sometimes makes the abuser worse because they're not getting the reaction they want. And I don't understand how people look at a situation in such a narrow framework, such as this schoolyard fight being only about this one particular thread. Wouldn't it be nice if we didn't think and feel so much and could just forget the past, or if it had nothing to do with the present or future.

One thing I've noticed in schools, is that the authorities and teachers usually don't deal with the bullies in the group, they just let them do their thing and harass and hurt others or the group. It's wrong. And it's no way to teach a child acceptable behavior and how to treat and speak to others. Now we have kids who get picked on and don't know what's going on or how to deal with the situation, finding guns to take care of things themselves; or killing themselves. Those that don't go to extreme measures can be scarred for life. Something needs to be done, and it's showing in our schools and youth. Those behaviors carry right on through into adulthood.

However meant or well-intentioned a scolding may be, one never knows just how unkind their remarks or behaviors might be taken by the one receiving them. You just don't know what other situations or background they might be dealing with. Is it really that important to be mean, nasty, or abrasive when trying to make a point? I think not. I think the message is actually lost.

I think our society needs to step back and actually look at the way we treat each other. But, I do live in the fast-paced business area of the "mean NE corridor." (And it is tiiiring.)

Graywings' suggestion does work well. I've used it a few times recently. I've seen this same stuff come up too often now, though, so am adding my own thoughts to this pile.

ReeRee, I do hope you end up loving your splash :) That price would've sent me running for other help. Estimates would always include hours worked, it's just spelled out differently when delivered by the sf. $30+ an hour is cheap around here, as you realize. I think my tiler was $100/hr. Some claim it's a big deal to tile on the diagonal because it's a design element, others say they might charge a bit more, and others say it's just the same and no big deal to them. I think some of these guys just charge what they can get away with. When I need something done, I always seem to run into $60-$100/hr, usually $100/hr these days (actually that was 3 years ago! and things are even crazier now). If your job worked out to $32sf, that does sound very high. Was that about an hour per foot then? Yikes. I'd just do it myself!

One thing I do notice, is that when people hire those who aren't actually in the business, hoping to save some money, they also think the laborer will have the same swift efficiency and know-how as a professional. I would expect the work to go slower and to be on a learning curve -- and that I might be taking my chances on the quality or standards used. Long as he delivers a quality job, though, I don't know that it's right to expect him to absorb (write off) the additional hours needed for him to do it -- but, his hourly rate should be lower than a professional's if his skill level is, which would compensate a good deal. That's why he should have thrown out a number for what it would be worth for him to spend his time on the job, as a non-professional. So, well, it's always best to ask and not figure it would be similar to other estimates, but it's his job to know better (and to know what a professional would charge for the job, I think, as well.) Have no idea what your splash should have taken. $250 would scare me away, though, I think -- although $8/sf is ringing a bell from somewhere. Maybe ask around on John Bridge Tile Forum. (A perfect example of a well-behaved forum, moderated by professionals in the field and a good courtesy code enforced by its owner.)

And a friend would not milk you. (Nor charge you excessively more if they knew it took them way too long to accomplish.)

squirrel
I was wondering when you were going to jump in :)
nice to 'see' you!

in the past we have paid much more on labor.. I won't get into it on here, but our up stairs bath was 10K just in labor and it is a tiny room..after many years of paying out our nose for work..our friend came along and told us he does work at 35 an hour..we thought WOW..BARGIN!! and grabbed him..the first of his jobs here was the down stairs guest bath, he did a beautiful job and his labor was very reasonable.. what up set me this time around was his pace... I did all the running around, picking everything up (and will be sealing it myself too, not that is a biggie, but not included. when we added the cost of tile and labor, it totaled 1600.00.. thats what created 'sticker shock' as beautiful as it is, and his craftmanship shines, to me, that was high for the job all in all for what it was. that was my rant :)

getting to the 250.00 guy... my husband knows him through a fellow police officer.. he is the cousin. He did work for my sister in law and it was done professional and beautiful..her kitchen floor cost her 1400.00 in labor. It is a large kitchen, it was floated in mud, she had a border around the room , large tile with diamond inserts between them...when the time came, I called him..he came over and said it was a small job and would not take long at all.. he quoted me 250.00 for his labor.( that also included removing the granite back splash) back then, it was just tile with out inserts.. even if he would have doubled it to add inserts, it would have been 500.00 labor. to me that was a great price. We did extend the tile further out than originally planned, but we are talking an additional 2.5 feet.

we are far from cheap, spent thousands and thousands in our time as home owners and are well aware of the cost of labor..in this case, I just feel it shouldn't have taken as long as it did.. the very first day, it took 8 1/2 hours to do the first 5 feet long by 18 inches in height , including 7 inserts. my cousin stopped in and was shocked thats as far as it got.. he told me to talk to him, I refused, said it wasn't worth hurting someone or to cause bad feelings..my cousin said.. it doesn't seem to bother him that he is moving slow on your pocket either..so I gave our friend the benefit of the doubt and figured he would pick up the pace. .he even told me it would go much faster and it didnt ..thats what started getting me up tight. I will always feel we did over pay, but I always try and find a bright side of things.. (after I rave like a mad woman..lol) and I have to say I love the tile and the job he did..so thinking like that helped me level out some what.. I guess I learned how to do that from having kids..lol!

I will take pictures soon.. hopefully no later than tomorrow..maybe even today (waiting for camera) maybe I will just go out and buy one already..hehe
Ree

Ree,
One thing I've not heard anyone say, is that maybe you should mention your dismay to this man, so it will NOT happen to someone else. A quiet, kind, calm word or letter would let him know his business practices need an update. If you don't say anything, he doesn't know. Not at all.

For the sake of future clients, I believe you need to speak up and let him know how this hit you. Someone else might not be able to afford this.

I once owned my own service business and a quiet word from one of my much loved clients helped me clarify a practice that was damaging my reputation...all unknown to me until she said something. Did I change? You bet~ still charged a boatload, but everyone knew it up front. As a business person that was my responsibility, not my client's.

Enjoy your new kitchen.

Hi, I am new to this forum but WOW!I had to scroll through a lot of nothing worth nothing and at last I came upon the beautiful mosaic. I just want to tell igloochick that I think your mosaic of the chickens is absolutely beautiful! I fell in love the minute I saw it. I think chickens are beautiful and interesting birds.

(I dont know your story but hope your 2 year old is gonna be o.k.)

Ree.... I am glad you handled your situatuion with class. You turned an uneasy situation into a positive .You now have a beautiful backsplash and you are pleased with the workmanship your friend did on it (and you still have your frienship). You get to wake up every morning to your beautiful kitchen and another positive is that it will increase the value of your home when all is done. Cant wait to see pic's! Smile

Ree, you don't sound like a raving mad woman at all! And I know you're not being stingy. I can't understand the cost of these projects either, and it only seems to be getting more and more ridiculous. The rest of us have skills too, ya know! I honestly don't know how people can afford to get things done.

I, too, wish you'd just politely ask why it took so long, or send a note so he's aware.

I just had a big, reputable plumbing outfit in here, to get an estimate on a couple things (holy cow!), and the guy wanted $200 and some change to tighten the bolts under my toilet tank, which I'd just noticed were also loose. pbbbbbb! Now would you trust this guy? I did call around, and got (another ridiculous) $70 -- close to the $85 he later tried for. I think I can handle it myself. I could never even charge for something so stupid. Definitely cost him the job, which he wanted cause he got a little pushy.

I do understand your just paying the bill and not bothering with the whole thing. I had a similar situation with an experienced carpenter here, years ago, who claimed he charged $25/hr for carpentry (not bad back then). Since he was referred by someone else who wasn't available, I didn't worry about getting multiple estimates. I needed a piece of drywall replaced/patched in my bay window ceiling area and the wood seat of it pulled off and a new plywood piece cut and replaced. Well, all said and done, materials aside, the one part cost $125/hr and the other $80/hr. I did point it out to him and he asked what I thought it was worth, that he would make an adjustment. We had agreed on a price, so I paid him what we agreed to, but did let him know it was not the labor charge I was quoted. It was what he felt was worth it for the job, which I can understand, but not at all the reasonable $25/hr he quoted me. Do you know, I just found under the lip of that darn thing -- he didn't even bother to seal it with caulk and it has cracks open to the outside!! Why must we follow these guys around on our hands and knees like inspectors.

The stories I could tell. One other guy, also known to be s-l-o-wwww, had me in tears or frustration sometimes and worked me like a pro -- I'd come home and couldn't even see what he'd done. I did finally tell him to give me my key back just get lost, lol.

I really do think they take advantage if you're 'nice' (which is sometimes equated to stupid) or think you don't have a clue. I know they charge by the neighborhood! or whether they think you have money to spend.

Too bad you didn't go with the first guy, who sounds like he knew the business and customary charges. But, at least it's a job well done. A lot can be said for that and you don't have to start over.

We need a place to vent -- it's crazy out there!

happyintexas
Thank you for your words of wisdom. trust me, I really bit my tongue .. my family encouraged me to talk to him also.. and I wanted to, believe me.. but sadly, I could not get the words out, because he is a friend. I have opened my mouth in the past with another contractor that I didnt agree with, but I did not have a friendship with him and I didnt care less. The problem is he does tell people what he charges per hour.. it all sounds good to the ear and a bargain at that.. until you see how slow he moves . I am sure someone who didnt have direct ties with him would open up and say something, and I wouldnt doubt it has happened.. He was all ready paid in full , cash in hand , I just have to learn my lesson . I should of said something right at the first day in a kind manor, but I let that precious moment slip away.. now after the fact, it would be a little awkward.

michigandergardener
thank you and welcome to the gardenweb! lots of wonderful, talented people on here!

squirrel
you took the words right out of my mouth..HOLY COW!!! that is totally ridiculous ! Those are extremely high prices for changing bolts.. makes my guy sound cheap..lol

at least the other contactor agreed to his first quote and did the right thing by honoring his original estimate, but to find out he didnt seal it? Makes me want to bang my head.. I think we should all go to the home depot work shop for women .. I am ready!

stupid me for not going with the first guy, but it was right around the holiday's when I first started taking the wall paper down.. everything stopped because of Christmas.. our friend is always around, so I figured to just let him do it, I honestly thought it would be more than the first guy, but not by $800.00!

I should have pictures up today.... I will post it on a new thread :)
Ree

but to find out he didnt seal it?

Hey, what do you want for $100 an hour? Ummm, perfection?

welcome to gw michigan! and thank you for the compliment on my chickies :) i just love the darned things too LOL whjat is it about chickens?

reeree are there any chickens in this bs you won't show us? :oP

squirrel & igloo
how dare you expect perfection for 100.00 an hour..LOL

no chickens here..I wish!! I look at your tile all the time.. (drool) in my next house :)

my girlfriend is coming over around 10:30-11:00am this morning (est) for pictures..I will finally get to post them!
Ree

Thank you all for the welcome!

Ree, I read your statement in above post, "I think we should all go to the Home Depot workshop for women".......
This is a great idea, as that is what I did nine years ago at our local HD. (I also worked their) It is how I learned to tile everything from floors to walls and backsplashes. It is a great workshop to getting started, and it is
free...

Igloochick, I am very fond of chicken's. Love their curious nature and beauty. Not to mention the big brown eggs we get in exchange for their keep. ...Smile

Boy, you got screwed and by a friend no less? I wudded blew up bigtime, friendship be damned....! nobody screws me like that and get's away with it unscathed!

michigandergardener
you are so welcome! wow..you learned how to tile? I love woman power :) good for you!! I hear the HD workshops are great..I probably will sign up and take some classes..I love doing work..lol!

susieq07
I suppose some would react differently, I just can't see having a fight over it..I lived and learned..next time everything will be on the table, no matter who it is before the job starts.. they say we learn through out mistakes..I got an A+ :)
Ree

ps..took pictures this morning..waiting for my friend to come back to down load for me..not sure how to do it on her camera

I am late jumping in here - as I searched the forum for my own 'sticker shock'. I just received my quote from the builder (new home) on our backsplash. I don't have the square footage, but it sounds a lot like ree ree's. We have approx. a 10 foot section behind the stove area, and probably 8 more feet, and then a small 8' section of the hightop bar area (will use about 1½ tiles high here). So I am estimating about 38 sq ft. I am having the tumbled stone on a diagonal, and having a 'picture frame' behind the stove - my price came in at $1600 too. I have to do it, as we are closing the end of next week, and need at least something back there for the CO.

Well anyway - I do feel you pain financially, but I am sure that being taken advantage of hurts more!

Does that include the tile, Tinker? The labor on Ree's was $1062.

yes squirrel, that's total - tile and labor - which I think sounds pretty high!

I would have no problem with the $35 an hour - but the number of hours it took him to do your backsplash seems excessive.....I have had some sticker shock moments myself which has taught me to always ask for a ballpark figure estimate ahead of time - that way I know there is an understanding between me and the workman as to how much the total cost will be. I also make sure that he knows I can't go over the top number of his estimate.

It is time to just enjoy your beautiful backsplash and learn from the experience and move on - I've had to do that a few times myself :-).

Tinker, are you sure you need a backsplash for a CO? That sounds like a load of builder bull to me. A backsplash is a decorative, not a code element in your kitchen. At least not that I've ever heard of.

Another New Englander here, (Ma. winter, Maine summer) and although I agree that SOME New Englanders are direct in their speech, I've NEVER run in to one who would reply to me without some consideration for me. On a funny note I once was caught in a horrible rain storm and pulled in to a gas station in Maine to fill up. Just for idle chatter I said "Is this rain ever going to stop?" His reply "Always does" lol lol I loved it!!!!

tinker & cattknap
seems like 1600.00 is the lucky number around here..
it is a lot of money no matter how you cut it... doing home improvements is expensive and I can feel your pain...
the money part is behind me... I may get up set about things, but I level out and I am not a dweller.. what got me up tight was the pace..I know some have said they can see where it took 4 days, but I was here and I have to disagree.. I am thinking one day too long..that is my personal opinion. Tink..please let me know how long they take to do your back splash.. just curious if it will take the same amount of time as mine did...I think you do have more square feet than I do.

I don't think he purposely took advantage of us, I think it was more that he was in a comfort zone here and worked at a slower pace than maybe he normally would have in someone else's home.. he wanted to do a perfect job and wanted us to be happy with his work..so maybe he was just being over cautious ... he truly is great guy and doesn't have a dishonest bone in his body... but in my heart I will always feel he did move a little slow and paying by the hour adds up! just think..an 8 hour day is close to 300 bucks! He is suppose to work here again, (this was planned before the tile started) putting a vintage wainscoting in the breakfast room, so I will ask him before he starts what time frame are we looking at... I am actually considering doing it myself..all in a day!

I also think what kills me with the high prices is, we are moving... but not until next year. thats the plan anyway..it's a hard call to say what will be in a year from now, a lot could change in a years time... if it doesn't work out, we will stay here...but that is the plan as of now. If you are wondering why I am doing this work if we are selling... it's a very hard market as it is..when I look at each room, I look at it through a 'buyers' eyes..if I don't like it for myself, I wouldn't expect anyone else to either... and for the time here, I will enjoy it as it is something that I have wanted to do for a long time... and who knows..we may be here much longer than we think..so in a way I am doing it for myself, and if the time comes to sell..it is 100% better than what it was.....

a little OT but below is a link of the house we want to buy...( I am not crazy for the kitchen)

yayagal
I am a NY'er and we have a bad rap too.. :)
Ree

Now, reeree....you know the rules - no mixing metaphors! You have to post NEW info on a NEW house on a NEW thread!! That, and the link you gave doesn't work and I wanna see the house - simple as that ;-)

dlm2000
well..ah..didn't I blend it nicely? lol!

yep, bad link!

kgwlisa, I don't need a backsplash, but I something (granite or tile) 4" high. Something about the local code so that water doesn't get behind - causing mold. I didn't want to pay for the granite backsplash only to tear it out later to do the backsplash. Who knows.. at this point there may not really be a code!