This sounds like a situation in which you'd want the protection of a lawyer. Of course the selling agent is going to tell you you don't need a lawyer. That would be great for her, wouldn't it?
I'd have a real estate attorney on my side to write the offer and go through EVERYTHING with a fine-toothed comb.

stick w/ the attorney.

And, maybe there's a legal way to avoid an escrow account, but still pay them a "bonus" if you find no problems. A lawyer might be able to help you think what that would be.

Why would you want/need an escrow account on a home that is being sold "as is"? My offer is based on the fact that there may be things wrong with the home (that the inspection won't/can't uncover)

Sounds to me like she's trying to get you to offer more than you would if you took the property "as is". Is this YOUR realtor, or the selling realtor? If it's the selling realtor, she is representing the seller, not you.

This is the selling realtor. I know she is not representing me (that's why I wanted to use an attorney to write the contract) but this selling realtor is telling me I CAN'T use an attorney to write the contract because they have to use THEIR contract and that she has to fill it out for me and will explain it and I have to sign and initial. That doesn't sound right to me at all and I'd have an attorney look it over before I signed anything. I just don't understand the part about escrow though. The house is clearly listed as "AS IS". The sellers have NO money to pay for any repairs. So even if the inspection uncovers something unexpected I can either take it or leave it. The sellers aren't fixing anything. So I don't understand why the realtor is saying there will be an escrow account. Isn't it up to me to ask for an escrow account (if I feel the need). But why would one ask for an escrow account on a property that is being sold as is? Doesn't that negate the (as is) aspect of the property? The realtor is faxing me HER contract that we HAVE to use so I can look it over.

Something seems fishy. Does this mean if someone else had a lawyer write up an offer and present it to her she'd turn it down saying sorry, you didn't use the right form? Or make the lawyer rewrite the offer on her form? I say take the faxed blank contract and you and your lawyer go over it. If you have a lawyer you don't need her to explain the contract to you. She should be happy she's getting an offer period. If she gets fussy about forms or that you want a lawyer in the first place, I'd be suspicious of the whole deal.

I just saw your other thread. Perhaps this agent is just unfamiliar with transactions that involve a lawyer, versus those that involve a buyer's agent, who would use the same form she has.
In any event, whether she's just inexperienced or whether she's trying to hoodwink you in some way, I think it might be best for you to have no further direct contact with her. Just get a lawyer and have the lawyer deal with her. It might save you some headaches in the long run.

The realtor is NOT your friend. Consult a *real estate* attorney -- not just 'a lawyer'. Hire an attorney with experience with real estate contracts.

Offer what you want to offer. It's not your problem that the seller is going to lose money on the deal.

newhomeseeker But why would one ask for an escrow account on a property that is being sold as is?

You can ask for everything and anything... that does not mean the sellers will grant your request. The less money they get for the house to pay off the mortgage, Realtor, fees, etc., the less likely they will be to set up an escrow account to fix any potential problems. Don't be shocked if they tell you no.

And, while it is not your problem what they need to pay off the mortgage, a short sale would need bank approval and may delay or deny the sale entirely if they don't have cash to bring to the table.

Actually I DIDN'T ask for an escrow account. Was not my idea at all. The selling agent told me she puts this in the contract. I said nothing at all about putting money in escrow to pay for possible repairs. After all the house is being sold "as is". So I would have no expectations of the sellers paying for anything and my offer would reflect that the home may need a new furnance. The realtor is the one who brought up the escrow account which didn't make sense to me. She then said to make sure I offered enough to cover the seller's mortgage and have the extra money set aside in escrow (seller's mortgage is not MY problem and I didn't ask for the escrow account) I guess I should have said why would a realtor suggest an escrow account on a home she is selling when it is being sold as is??

To answer that question, "no idea". If you don't expect it and think it will kill the deal, don't put it in your offer.

Why she would suggest it? It would bring a higher price on the house that she is selling. She is representing the seller and should try to get as much as possible for the sellers. If there is nothing wrong with these items and the sellers are confident in that this means they get an extra $5K vs. you offering and taking that into account which gives a lower selling price for them.

Offer what you want and see where it takes you.

Chisue summed it up as well as I would have - "The realtor is NOT your friend. Consult a *real estate* attorney -- not just 'a lawyer'. Hire an attorney with experience with real estate contracts."

For fun, let's just say that both the septic AND the furnace are bad, do you think $5000 will cover getting them functional? I sure doubt it.

Talk with a real estate attorney before you sign an offer. You owe yourself good treatment on this transaction.

I think you are making it more complicated than you must.
Offer what you will pay if both the itmes do not work. Worry about that if/when you get the house. The seller is selling as is, you can't get complicated on them.
Get the contract form, have an attorney review it with you, submit it to the agent.

From what I am reading.. it sounds like the agent is trying to make you her friend so that you trust her. You will think she is on your side for suggesting and pushing for the escrow money and also with how it sounds like she is "hinting" at what your offer should be, high enough to cover the escrow, unless she is hinting for you to put in a better offer.

I agree with Lyfia, she is looking out for the seller, not you. She sounds like she doesn't want you to take it to an attorney because it will hold the sale up or you may see something she won't read to you. My question is, if she knows she has an offer coming in, is she still going to retire next week? How will she have time to see it to closing if she can't wait for your offer? It sounds like she is pressuring you to get the offer and do it now.

As for the septic & furnace, check to see if it is something that has to pass and if not it will be your problems according to her contract. I agree, $5,000 won't cover it. We just installed a new furnace in the fall, cheapest price we got was a little over $7,000. Septics are expensive, especially if you have to replace leech lines, pump it out, then possibly replace the tank.

You do not know if these people took care of the septic. A septic that is taken care of works great but for someone that hasn't taken care of it, I can tell you from experience that it's a headache. Imagine your toilets backing up because the tank can't take anything else. If they dumped all kinds of stuff in it like grease down the sink, where do you think it lands? I remember many days my ex sat there and had to shovel stuff out in order to get it to work for the night until someone could come out. After we worked the kinks out, it was fine but that was a good 2 - 3 years down the line of learning how to live with one.

What are you going to do if you can't get your hands on the escrow money? You need to see how long you have to use it and if someone will tell you before it is being returned to the sellers. It very well could be that once you turn on the furnace in the fall that after using it for a few days you find something wrong, now what? Is it too late to claim the funds?

The realtor that has the property listed is retiring. Her contract with the sellers expires a week from today. The original realtor is a flat fee realtor and the new realtor charges 6% so the sellers are more likely to take a lower offer while listed with the current realtor.

I don't understand about the old and new realtors. How do you know it will go to someone that charges a commission? Does the retiring agent own the flat fee office?

Now, remember what you just wrote.. they are more likely to take your low offer then to negotiate while listed with an agent that charges commission.

At the link below, Sweeby made a really good post about offers. Take a look at what she wrote and decide what you think is a good offer.

At some price, you will not mind losing the house because you will know that the buyer paid more than you were willing to pay. Write that number down and call it your "lose it price".

At some price, you will snap it up and do a happy dance knowing that you got a house you love for a fair price. Know that these sellers already have three good reasons to expect a "fair" price (the three previous offers) rather than a "bargain" sale, and that as a previous preceived 'low-baller', you won't have extra goodwill on your side. Write down this "fair price" number.

Of course, there will be a gap. How big a gap is it? Is it even a realistic gap to close?

Now for the tough part -- Identifying your "kick yourself" price. This is the price where you would "kick yourself" if the house sold for that amount to someone else. Start with your "fair price" and work your way up. Add a premium for charm, for location, for whatever it is that draws you to this house but not others. Recognize that those features may not have tangible value to an objective appraiser, but that they may have real value to you, and they may have real value when you go to resell down the road. Also figure in your risk-aversion and how you'd feel about paying more than you think is "fair" if the market is shaky. Mentally "try on" each price by imagining that you bought the house for that amount. Are you happy, satisfied or gut-sick? Go for satisfied --

Here is a link that might be useful: Post by Sweeby

why an escrow?

Bcs there should be a big price difference between a home w/ a sort-of-old-but-working furnace & septic, and a home w/ a furnace & septic that both need to be replaced.

Could be $10k differnce.

Right now no one knows what it is.

So you say, "as is, no repairs by you; I'm assuming the septic & furnace work, but I want a safety net if it turns out they don't, bcs no way would I pay that much if it turns out they don't."
' Or, you say, "I'll split the difference w/ you; it's a risk of $10k, so I'll pay you $5k less than I'd pay if inspections showed no problems." And see what happens.

Septic can be inspected, you need a septic inspector.

The other thing is to wait until she retires, and deal with a new realtor. But the seller may have to pay commission How bad does the owner needs sell--could they wait 3 months etc.
I know how frustrated you are getting, but do not let her control you. Your agent should be doing more, or your attorney. You could also talk to the Board of Realtors. Just sit back and go along with your attorney. Let him/her deal with it. Have a LARGE cup of Tea and relax. Just sending hugs. You will survive.
I know I did.

Thanks for the support. I do need to relax. I've made one offer on a house before (inspection uncovered HUGE issues so we didn't go ahead with the sale) and it was never this complicated. Last time I had the basic state contract and used an attorney to add a few things to it and the selling realtor accepted it just fine. Never suggested I use his contract.

The sellers desperately need to sell. Their home has been on the market for a year this month. They moved out about 10 months ago and live in a rental in another state as far as I can tell. I do not think the realtor gets along with the sellers either as she has told me about their financial situation (are close to foreclosure) and that the sellers are angry at HER because they think she used the last of their propane in their tank and this is the reason the furnace can't be inspected. I don't think the sellers can wait three more months to sell- their house will probably go into foreclosure by then. I really like this house and would love it after some fix ups. However I am not in love with it at this point and won't pay any more than it is worth to ME. I realize the sellers have lowered their price three times but it has been at this price for the last five months and no buyers. The home is in the price range of first time home buyers and there have been a few offers that the sellers have accepted but none were able to get financing (bad credit). I have great credit so they dont' have to worry about that on my end. If they dont accept my offer I won't regret it, may be a little disapointed but not worth the hassle that this is turning into.

The sellers desperately need to sell. Their home has been on the market for a year this month. They moved out about 10 months ago and live in a rental in another state as far as I can tell.

...she has told me about their financial situation (are close to foreclosure) ...I don't think the sellers can wait three more months to sell- their house will probably go into foreclosure by then.... I realize the sellers have lowered their price three times but it has been at this price for the last five months and no buyers.

Stand back & breathe. If the house is going to go into foreclosure there isn't anything you can do but keep your eye on it and buy it then. You will pretty much know what you are getting into then if that happens.

This agent sounds to be playing both sides of the fence, but you don't know if her information is accurate or if she's doing this to get the sale. If it goes off of the market, contact the sellers yourself.

They moved out about 10 months ago and live in a rental in another state as far as I can tell. I do not think the Realtor gets along with the sellers either as she has told me about their financial situation (are close to foreclosure) and that the sellers are angry at HER because they think she used the last of their propane in their tank and this is the reason the furnace can't be inspected.

You know, this agent is bringing you into things you don't need to be involved in. I still think it sounds like she's trying to get you to "be her friend" with her giving you what you think might be the right information, especially the last bit about the propane.

I can tell you that if the sellers are in another state already and the house sat during the winter, the heat had to be on or the pipes would freeze. Do you really think the sellers would blame her for actually turning on the heat if that's what she did? No. I don't doubt she said, if they don't allow her to do it they may be looking at more money when the pipes burst.

You really need to get your own agent

I don't see how the agent is trying to get me to be her "friend" by griping to me about the sellers. I found it to be unprofessional and certainly did not endear me to her. I don't want to get my own agent because of the experiences I have had with agents in my area. I'm not saying that using a buyer's agent isn't a good idea for some people but I am much more comfortable with having an attorney assist me instead of a realtor. Not long before I decided to make this offer I looked at a house that had been on the market for two weeks. I contacted the listing agent of that home and she met with me to view it. The home was listed as 4 bed 2 FULL baths. This listing agent of this other home boasts on her web site she has 18 years experience. She was very nice, very personable. Although we weren't in that house for 5 minutes and she whipped out a piece of paper and asked me to sign it. She explained it as "this doesn't mean you have to buy the house it just means I showed it to you" I asked her what if I did not want to sign it. She was dumbfounded and stuttered that she'd never had anyone refuse to sign it. It was a dual agency disclosure saying she would be representing me if I bought the home. Ok nothing wrong with wanting to protect her commission but she could have mentioned this over the phone or brought it up more tactfully.

Also even though this was the listing agent and the home had already been on the market for two weeks she admitted to me this was the first time she'd actually been inside the house!! She said usually her agency tours the homes before they list "but for some reason we didn't look at this one". The home was listed as having two full baths but the 2nd bath was a half bath. I pointed this out to the agent and she said "well some people would consider that a full bath it has a toilet and sink" Uh no, I don't know anyone who would consider that a full bath. When we were touring the house the owner was home (a woman in her 70's) and she just watched tv while we walked around. When we were upstairs the realtor sat on the woman's bed and even laid down on her pillow and told me how comfortable it was. Um ok... Regarding the full and half bath, this was acurately reflected in the property records for the county and I advised the realtor of this and she said "oh I don't look at those things". This realtor was very nice and enthusiastic but unfortunately this has been similiar to my experiences with other realtors in the area (besides the ones who refuse to call me back when I leave a message about looking at one of their properties and I include in that message that I am preapproved) so I really dont see how getting my own agent is going to protect my interests better than an attorney.

I had a septic inspection on a home that was vacant for quite awhile. I used a septic company. They filled the tank with water via a hose and then did the inspection.

I don't see how the propane tank needs to be 40% full to perform the furnace inspection. As long as there is something in there, it should work. Are you saying that furnaces will stop working when tanks are below 40% full? I doubt that. I have a propane tank for my gas cooktop only. It is probably 10% full right now and everything is working wonderful. I am waiting for it to go empty soon.

I bet you can get 15% propane added to the tank. I would do that and get the furnace inspected asap.

But for as-is...you have an agreed upon price for the sale in the contract. The inspection period just gives you an "out" if you find major issues and you can walk away. IF you find issues, for "as is" sales, you really shouldn't go back to the seller and ask for discount due to a bad septic.

So offer about $5k lower assuming these items need work. Then get your inspections and if the amt of money needed for any possibly repair is too much for you, then walk away if the contract allows.

Don't make this more complicated and more scary than it should be. "as is" doesn't mean the place is a wreck. Usually it means they don't want to play nickle and dime games with buyers that want every screen hole repaired and new carpet, paint etc per the inspection.

I know the furnance will work on a low propane tank, but the company that owns the tank will not come out to fill it (even though I'd have to pay for a service call because the tank is currently completely empty and they have to check everything before and after they fill it) unless you purchase a certain amount of propane. As for the septic, the realtor is the one who told me you have to wait 30 days to have it inspected. I called a "local" septic company that is two hours away (closest that does those type of inspections) and they told me the same thing. Never mentioned the idea of filling it with a hose. I wonder if I have to use a septic company from my state (as the neighboring state is only about ten minutes away). I think also the sellers do not want to pay for the water to be turned on as I was told if I want to be able to inspect the toilets and pipes I would have to put the water bill in MY name???? They are selling the house as is because they have no spare cash to make repairs with. They can barely pay the house payment.

1) Have the agent fill in the form and fax it to you.
2) Take it to your lawyer so s/he can see the contract.
3) Have the lawyer write up your offer based on that contract with the amount you are willing to gamble on the property AS IS.
4) See if the sellers accept or counter. (Repeat if necessary.)
5) Do any inspections you want on your dime.
6) Walk or buy.

Stop the chit-chat with the agent. I wonder if the sellers know what she's doing.

If you don't *need* to move soon, I'd wait for the foreclosure and jump through the bank's hoops.

I don't know your market, but the consensus nationwide is that RE prices have dropped 15% from mid-2006 but have another 10% to go -- possibly by the end of next year -- to equalize the boom and get the inventory of unsold homes down to a reasonable level.

Texas has an "Information About Brokerage Services" form that we are required to present to a potential buyer or seller.

It's a sort of "you have the right to remain silent" notification, advising the potential buyer/seller that there are different kinds of relationships a consumer may have with a real estate practitioner & that anything you say will be revealed to the real estate agent's client (unless you opt for intermediary agency, assuming seller has approved intermediary agency).

If the document the Realtor handed you was *one* page, it was likely a similar form.

It does not obligate anyone;
it just documents the fact that the real estate practitioner disclosed what s/he is obligated to disclose.

Usually, no one refuses to sign it.

As someone said above, or on the other thread, you don't have to talk to the seller's agent;
you obviously do not like her, & it sounds like you aren't getting anywhere with the purchase you want to make.

You can engage a buyer rep (I doubt that the fee will be any more, if that's the problem; flat fee listings almost always include an allowance to pay the buyer's agent), or you can use your attorney's expertise.

You do not have to talk to the seller's agent ever again in your life if you don't want to.

What utter BS.......the market is the market, bad unkempt lazy owners should never be rewarded for letting their property fall into disrepair...offer at least 10% less then he paid..and try for a short sale....or pick it up later in foreclosure. The gall of that realtor.

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The realtor is saying that I need to take in consideration that in order to have the escrow account the sellers need to have enough money to pay off their mortgage first and then have the overage for escrow. The realtor told me to make sure I offer enough so they can do this.