I would look to gather as much info as possible about the current state of this house before deciding how to proceed. I'd definitely get another appointment for both you and hubbie to view this place and have someone who knows the building trades and old houses go with you. I'd plan on this viewing taking over an hour but at least you'll get a starting point for what the current state of the house is. With that info, you could start gathering estimates of approximate costs for getting work done...unless you'll be doing it yourselves.

Should you bid? That's a question that no one except you can answer. Some of us old home lovers can see, as you have, the potential for homes like this one. If you haven't done rehabs before, you will be in for quite a bit of work with this one - there are times when you will ask yourselves "what have we done". This one will definitely require a budget for getting it liveable. But since you mention the contingency of having to sell your current home, will you be able to swing it while work is being done? And then will you psychologically able to live in a house that's this rough? It will take time to get it up to par.

The lack of a kitchen could be a good thing - you'd get to design one that would work for you and the house. Where is this house located? The lack of central air may not be such a big deal - old homes were usually built with lots of windows to allow for plenty of cross ventilation. Lead in soil that was removed and refilled - most old homes have some at least some lead in soil due to chipping paint that fell. However, since this had to be removed, can you find out why? If you have kids, I'd incorporate a soil lead test into your offer. Termite damage - get this checked out by a pro and ask the seller/her agent for additional info. Plumbing - could easily be galvanized pipes which aren't a big deal...unless there is a huge mineral build up in the pipes and the water flow is affected - run water and watch for speed of drainage in all sinks/tubs which you view again. Upgrading pipes to copper is no big deal...but costs. Electric - you'll be able to tell with an inspector. Upgrading the whole house will cost at least $10000 if you hire it out. I'd also only recommend using an electrician that would fish new wires through the walls - do not use someone who only says rip of the plaster walls and put in new. It may take time to find this electrician, but it can be done.

You mention the grand dames going for 2.5 times of asking. You also mention the 15% of asking homes. The price of this one has been lowered 20000 since Feb - is that 1%, 25% or some other amount of asking? What should you bid - there isn't enough info in your post to answer that question.

I know exactly where you are coming from when you say you love this house. However, I'd get as much info about old homes as you can. Does the area this house is in have a historical society/association? Use them for resources of qualified folks to work on old homes. Gather info, gather info, gather info. In my opinion, that is your best tactic at this stage.

If you've never lived in a home that has needed alot of work, be warned, it can be a rough existence. But the satisfaction of saving this house will be huge if that's the route you end up going. Good luck!

What is the land value? This sounds like a teardown to me!

Larzebub, I saw your album on the other website - if you go for that home, it'll be awesome! Get those inspections and really, really, really make sure your family is prepared to live in restoration! The unpainted wood in that house is beautiful! Good luck in your decision.

That's no teardown! But I'm not objective as I'd never live in a subdivision.

Does it really not have ANY kitchen? Not even a freestanding stove and a junky old sink? You might have difficulty getting a Certificate of Occupancy and/or a conventional mortgage if there's no kitchen at all.

The contaminated soil issue might make it difficult for you to get homeowners insurance. Who handled the remediation? Was a permit pulled? Did insurance pay for it?

I'm not trying to discourage you, it sounds like a cool house and I'm a huge believer in buying fixer-uppers. The condition of the house and the environmental issue, though, might make banks and insurers wary of getting involved.

Before making an offer, go take the municipal building and take a look at the property's permit file. And call a mortgage broker and see what they think about financing options.

Good point about the kitchen. My neighbors had trouble refinancing until their new kitchen was in

Need to know the asking price. 20k on a 100k home could be a bargain, 20k on a 500k home without a kitchen is a joke

You need to have some type of inspection contingency so that if it is too much you can walk

Okay, well, I guess the $20k down from the original asking price is good, considering the asking price NOW is $129,900! It's lower than houses in the area of this size (nearly 5000sf including full basement) and of this quality. I mean, yeah, there are certainly issues, but it has all of the original woodwork (unpainted, as mentioned above), doors w/hardware, windows, bathrooms almost 100% intact, etc. Non-old house lovers probably WOULD consider it a tear-down, but I see the heart and soul of the house and that it could be as grand as it was 80 years ago.

The kitchen isn't as "nonexistent" as I made it sound. Well, it IS down to the studs, but the seller put a sink/dishwasher cabinet and a range in it, so I guess technically it's "functional."

My only hang-up now is the presence of lead and old termite issues. We really need to decide whether to put in a bid (and what is a FAIR BID, considering both the positive AND the negative of the house) so we can get the ball rolling and have the necessary inspections done. We're considering it carefully and prayerfully!

Thanks for your replies!

p.s. Here's a link to the house!

I've heard the saying "buy the worst house on the best block in the neighborhood." Sounds like that's what this is. Good luck!

Looks like a beautiful house -- Totally Charming.

But please don't underestimate the amount of work (and cash) it will take to bring it back. Houses like this take many years (decades even!) to restore, and there are likely to be problems below the surface that you can't possibly be aware of.

Do you have an extra $100K to put into this baby? Are you dyed in the wool DIYers with the knowledge and skills to do much of the work yourselves? Or would you have to pay someone else to do the work?

It's tempting. But please keep your eyes open when evaluating this opportunity. Remember, every "money pit" looked like a good idea at the time.

I don't really think the agent is weird, I've seen houses open for visits. A house such as this realy can't be harmed if open for a few hours. There also might be lots of calls because of the price, but the agent knows most people won't buy it so she won't give you the tour, that is nice that she lets you poke around by yourself.
Ignore the agent, decide if you are willing to do the work, it could be a gem.

Wow! I went through your photos on the other site.... lots of potential BUT huge amount of work.In addidtion to the ground issues, I would be concerned with the basement walls. From your photos it looks as if the previous owner has patched alot of area. Also looks as if there has been water infiltration.Is that mold on the basement walls? I'd like to know if any contaminates from the ground had seeped into the basement along with ground water . I'd get a structural engineer to look over that house. While it really doesn't seem to be a tear down; for me, it would be a total gut job. Save all the wonderful features that have character and redo ALL systems. Estimate the cost and then add 40 to 50% more. Its amazing what turns up once a project of that scope is started. Good Luck!!

As another old house lover, if the proper inspections came back with nothing you can't handle, I'd buy it. I realize that there is a certain amount of risk involved with buying an older home, but not every old house is a money pit or has huge, unexpected problems. It's like anything else, you have to weigh risk versus reward. We restored an 1895 farmhouse over 8 years, using mostly cash. We never encountered anything unexpected. We aren't "immediate gratification" type of folks and we took our time with the projects we were able to do ourselves and had to wait for many of the projects best left to the professionals. But I think that in the realm of restoring old houses, slower is better. The experience was trying at times, but it was mostly very rewarding. I used to be an office manager for a lead paint abatement contractor, so I was aware of the dangers and appropriate precautions needed in that area. We ended up having to sell it due to my husband's job, but I still miss my first old house. Good luck with whatever you decide.

Looks like a really interesting and charming old house with great potential. But I agree with everyone else who has suggested estimating high on the repairs/renovations and pricing your bid accordingly. My husband and I LOVE old houses in theory, but we admire them from afar. Neither one of us is handy, so renovating an old house like this by ourselves would drive us to divorce court, I'm sure! And hiring all the work done would drive us to bankruptcy court! Everyone has their tolerance level though, and perhaps yours is higher than ours. Good luck!

That house is beautiful. I would buy it but not untill I had it instected and checked out. also find out how you are going to finance it. I looked at some of your pics. the fuse boxes look ok, I would be asking about why some sockets don't have fuses in them. Fuses have been around a long long time more than breakers. the service should probably be changed out to a breaker panel. your heat is probably hot water, it looks like you have a supply and return pipe on your Radatiors and a bleeder valve at the top to bleed out air. it could be steam with a 2 pipe system also but those can be changed to hot water with little work. the boiler in the pics is what supplies the rads with hot water to heat the rooms. the water may be circulated by natrual convection or a pump. that boiler also looks old and rusty you should have the checked out too before the first heating season. you may want to plan to repalce it with a more efficent one soon too. I have a hot water system in my house. my boiler was old when I bought but I got a new Burnham boiler now. the system provides good even heat, its quiet you don't hear it run unless you are in the basement near the boiler, and it doesn't blow dust around, there there are no filters like forced air.

No kitchen is not a bad thing in a fixer you can put in what you like. I would take out $5k for the cost of a cheap DIY kitchen in a house of that size.

Well, it's not nearly as bad as I thought when you first described it. The no kitchen is just another word for "opportunity" as far as I'm concerned.

DH and I are "old house" people, too, and it is not really decrepit and certainly not a teardown. Seems to me it's just mid-renovation.

Now that you mention it, it does make sense for a house with a lot of views to just be "open!" I guess not everyone signs the log, though, because according to it this house has only had a half-dozen views including us.

I did meet with a different agent today, looking at some other properties. I told him about this house and he said it was a remarkable price because houses in town go for $60-$75 per square foot, and this one is coming out to just over $45 at the current asking price.

He said the soil thing is not uncommon in the area, which has lead mining (did not know this!). The EPA will come in and if it tests positive they'll scrape off the top 6" or so of soil and replace it. I had no idea!

Inspections usually cost 10¢ per square foot (including structure) and termite inspections are $20. He said if termites needed to be treated it'd be about $500. Not sure if that was mold or not, scotslassie! The house would definitely need to be looked at with a fine-tooth comb!

He's estimating $5000 for new electrical and about that for plumbing. $2000 at least for a new boiler. He said installing HVAC can cost anywhere from $3k-$10k. Not sure if we'd go that route. We might instead do a mini duct or even a mini split system, so as not to be so "invasive." The house just wasn't meant to have regular ducts! We're actually good with radiant heat.

Assuming there's nothing structurally wrong with the house (not sure we'd even want to buy it if there was, that just might be too far over our heads to deal with!)...

All of that "mechanical" stuff would be between $20-$25k, which would still not quite bring us back up to the local price per square foot of $60. And my dad is an electrician and my brother a plumber (so handy, right?!) so hopefully we'd save money in those areas.

All of the cosmetic stuff (plaster, painting, wood refinishing, on and on) would definitely be DIY.

We're still considering and looking at all options!

I sincerely appreciate your feedback! Thanks for taking the time!

Larzebub I think you are on the right track with this place. If you like it and can fix it up go for it. having a plumbler and electrician in the family will surely come in handy.

about the Boiler plan for more than $2000. I just replaced mine last summer the unit alone was $2500 plus labor. I had a deal worked out with a plumber from work where I helped and did as much of the work as I could to save $$. my boiler was a Burnham series 2 model 207 with electronic ignition. you may not need one as big for your house and location.

the built-ins, wood work and tiles I see in the pictures is nice I'd love to live there.

WOW - what a gorgeous home! I would buy that in a heartbeat! May I ask what city or state you are in that a house like that is such a deal? Here in Florida, that money won't get you very much. I could only dream about having something like that. Lucky you!

Consider putting a purchase money convertable construction loan on the place. That would allow you to get the work done quickly & have the security of knowing your permanent mortgage was already & waiting.

Great house, BTW.

Tricia

The homeowner's hasty exit before finishing the kitchen, the agent's refusal to stay in the place any longer than necessary. It's pretty obvious to me. The place is haunted! ;-)

It's sounding better all the time! Having a plumber and electrician in the family, willing DIYers, and below-market pricing is all to the good. Here's wishing you luck!

Copper wiring (not old house-savvy enough to know what that means, but guessing not Romex) and on fuses rather than breakers.

Plumbing is unknown.

He's estimating $5000 for new electrical and about that for plumbing. $2000 at least for a new boiler. He said installing HVAC can cost anywhere from $3k-$10k.

my dad is an electrician and my brother a plumber (so handy, right?!) so hopefully we'd save money in those areas.

Having a plumber & electrician in the family is great, but my main concern is will they be able to help? Have you brought dad & your brother to the house to see what they say?

But on the way in she told me she was going to give me "free rein." (???) She proceeded to give me a quick tour of the house, and when we ended up back at the front door she said I could look around and she showed me how to lock up, and then she left.

My 1st thought was that there may be / or was roaches or something in the house and that the realtor knows this and doesn't want to be in there.

Years ago I cleaned for a realtor. There was an older house I was hired to clean; imagine my surprise when after being in the house for 2 days, the roaches showed themselves.

If you do purchase the house, are you able to swing owning 2 houses (think I read you own a rancher in another post) and working on this one in your spare time, plus putting money out for what ever this one needs?

It looks like a great house. Good luck with your decision and potential project.

Can somebody hand me a towel? I'm drooling puddles on the tabletop here. This house is a-freakin-mazing. Unpainted original woodwork? Original light fixtures in storage? Intact built-ins? Be still my beating heart! Where I live, in its current condition that sucker would be priced at a quarter mil. Fully restored? Half a mil easy and probably three-quarters if in a desirable location.

Without being able to see more of the exterior structure I'm not sure I could label it as a certain subtype of bungalow (and it's quite big for a bungalow, too) but I wouldn't tag it as a Tudor by a longshot... there are so many different influences that my instinct is simply to call it "Arts & Crafts" and leave it at that. (I'd have no problems with a haunted house, either. I get on well with ghosts - have had one before - and hang about with a passel of psychics and clergy of various flavors anyway.)

That bathroom with the green plaid wallpaper above the tile is just begginging for a Bradbury, Trustworth, or Carole Mead frieze. Mmmm... (Did you know that Vandykes.com has vintage-style medicine cabinet kits that will coordinate nicely with that style of woodwork?) Re: the servants' bathroom, is that painted tile or scored plaster? If you decide to pull out that mini tub, either keep it with the house (goodness knows you have enough basement space to store it) or sell it, don't just pitch it - those are VERY hard to find! I'm guessing that's a 4-footer or perhaps even a 3 1/2 foot? A new 48" cast iron clawfoot runs about $1300 plus freight. 42" ones are almost impossible to find.

The three sinks in the basement are very interesting, considering that a family of that economic stature would have been able to afford a gas or electric washing machine (and would have been mighty proud of it too!). I wonder if someone had a hobby that required multiple sinks - is there evidence that the spot it's in was ever used as a darkroom, perhaps? It looks like probably only the center set of taps is original.

If I were physically able, I would grab a house like this in a split second. It is absolutely one of the loveliest houses I have seen for a long time, the "bones" are impressive and comparatively little has been done to screw it up! (There is little as pathetic as a thwarted old-house nut, except maybe a dogless dog person.) As for the mortgage, what about a FHA 203(k) rehabilitation loan?

There is little as pathetic as a thwarted old-house nut, except maybe a dogless dog person.

Sadly, I am both! :P

For those who asked, this house is in Joplin, Missouri. I don't think it's quite in the Murphysburg district, just a few blocks off.

And there's no way we could swing two mortgages at once. I'm sure to some of you this sounds like chump change, but we have our existing mortgage PLUS private school tuition (monthly payments are more than our mortgage payments!). Thankfully, no car or credit cards to pay. It makes me weep thinking this house will slip through my fingers. We've looked at several other properties that we COULD afford right now, but you can see that the quality is just not the same. Of course the price reflects that...

Thanks for the tip about that loan. Looking into it now!

Ever consider home-schooling?

It looks to me like the kitchen should almost be a non-issue - some new wallboard, joint spackling, and paint and its good to go.

I'd be more intimidated by the wiring - its copper (which is good) but it looked like the old-fashioned paper insulation type (bad unless in pristine condition, and its nearly impossible to work on or near and have it remain pristine). Also the plumbing is unknown - make sure it is fully "known" before buying. Also that whole fuse box should be replaced with a modern circuit breaker panel, and in fact it might HAVE to be to be brought up to code, depending on what code is in that area.

The lead dirt thing would give me pause unless all the houses in the area have the same issue. In that case, the whole area would give me pause. Even if the EPA can replace the top six feet of dirt, they'd have to do it without harming the utility lines or the house foundation, any mature trees in the yard would be toast, and when they fill it back in with clean dirt they'd have to be really good in order to do it in a way that wouldn't settle.

I'd consider making the seller deal with the lead dirt issue as part of your offer. There is just too much that can go wrong.