Hi Aliris! Long time no see.

I like the idea of a big pro type cleanup faucet, but don't think I could pull it off in my kitchen IRL. I don't think many people can. Have you seen the "Pulldown Vs. Pullout" thread? Lots of good faucets and ideas about faucet reach, etc there. I've seen Davidro wax on about the hoses, metals, springs, etc. He's done a ton of research on those issues.

Hope the cabs are coming along nicely!

Hi Breezy!! Yes, I have been absent for weeks. I was just so *exhausted* with all the GW minutiae, and so so so behind in life. Sometimes you just need to work and not read, even though ... I have missed this reading *so* much. I have actually missed this chimeric non-existent community. So ridiculous really .... tis what it is. Hi back! I'm pretty thrilled to read about all your progress, and also really quite sad to see how much angst it's rendering.

Cabs: they might start to get installed sometime soon. Floors got jacked up and laid down by another set (loooooong, sordid story), bazillions *more* holes got punched in walls that shouldn't have been put up and then they got patched in and reprimed and painted; there's dust all over everything. Electrics are all straightened out and in now, following the biggest 6-months-long snafu imaginable, including the biggest massive honking 220V line you can imagine, probably wrongly placed. Oh well. I've spent hours and hours tearing my hair out over stuff I couldn't find, and then I found it. I've started unpacking books , which I discover the absence of has been a *big* part of so much despondency this whole process has resulted in. I am mind-bogglingly nervous about the impending cabinets I haven't seen any of. The manufacturers are continuing their non-standard pricing scheme refusing to deliver until I pay for all entirely sight-unseen, insisting my astonishment at their aberrant practices are my problem. whatever. It's all done in the nicest of ways, and I haven't actually got any substantive cause for worry, only, well - fork lifts happen. They happened in the side of my stove. (me: "didn't you look at the package?" them: "no? We just deliver it." @@)

Etc.

There is so much yet to buy, so little money remaining; the only margins that don't seem to be fixed are the worry-ones.

I cannot begin to imagine why I ever thought this was a viable option, renovating. But we don't live in Japan; could be worse. I glimpsed the POTUS today, and it was thrilling. Mistakes happen.

So that's where we're at. All this adrenaline is probably good for the system in some way. One bathroom is 99% done and I loooooove it. So, well, while it feels things are awfully low in reality it's just not true. We're all of us unbelievably lucky to be engaged in this sort of luxury, having a house, making it better; and I'm striving to match my feelings with this which I know (just hurrying to spend all our money before global warming renders it all moot).

But I need to get back on the decision-wagon now with a faucet and pulls to choose pronto. I'm way behind in this given how much time I had, but sometimes you just create your own crisis anyway. That's where we're at here.

One thing I've learned: GC's might actually earn their keep. :) [oh how I wish we could afford one!]

Thanks, Breezy for pointing me toward this excellent thread which has additional pointers towards other great ones further back. I really appreciate it!

Here is a link that might be useful: pullout v pulldown and other threads re sinks...

hi aliris,

explain this:
(4) I have a faucet with a sort of 'sticky' hose that you can bend to a shape and it keeps that shape. ... Does anyone know of one with a 'sticky' hose that *also* pulls out further?

--

A sprayer that stays spraying once the button is pressed (pressed once, while water is running) is very common these days. The button releases after the water stream is stopped, and the stream pattern reverts to the aerated jet.

Send email to a few faucet manufacturers asking for them to refer you to the pages in their web sites that show faucets that look like the __ named faucet of the competitor. That is, if you have a shape of faucet in mind. Mention the sprayer holding itself in spray.

A small number of faucets now have a flow adjustment thingie ON the spray head. Gessi has this. I saw a Delta that has this, in a HomeDespot ! It's a good feature. Also good is a pause button on the spray head. Several have this now. People have told me that the handheld control features are very good to have. Even though their hand is close to the faucet's handle at all times, they have one hand control with a pause button or a flow adjuster. With both these features mentioned here, it is important to know that a backflow preventer valve or a vacuum breaker is good to have, inside the faucet, to ensure that water only ever flows in one direction (out of the faucet, not into it) when the power is out or when pressure drops momentarily. Most faucet makers don't spell out what their faucet has inside, unless you ask or go hunting on their parts explosion diagrams. So, this informational tidbit might help you later when you have More Than One Good Option to choose from. Of course, nobody would ever leave their faucet spray running and submerged in a bowl or a sink, but ...

Lots of good questions in the OP. I can only answer a couple now, or else I will run out of paper.

There are many kitchen faucets that copy the commercial/professional kitchen faucets without going overboard.

The attraction of the honking big spring thing is that you show off, and you get a few technical advantages: you keep the hose out of harm's way, you don't have to "struggle" to get the hose back into a tube and get the wand properly docked (which can take fine finger movement), and both these points can be elaborated on for many pages. The big spring is like a failsafe mechanism which solves a couple problems. You can just raise the spray to approximately where it should be in space (feeling that the spring is no longer pulling much), and Let Go of It, and it takes care of itself from there. Now, one can argue that the same happens with a pull-down, except that you have to come back to it later to get it docked the last fraction of an inch. But there is more: the hose, if dirty/greasy/contaminated, does not carry that cr*p into the metal tube that it would slide into if the faucet were a pull-down. This is one way in which "out of harm's way" has real meaning. Another way of lesser importance is that a pulldown's hose can be stuck on something under the counter, and you have to leave that space free of obstacles. A professional cook uses large muscle movements all day every day, as often as possible, and this big spring let him/her continue to do so, instead of switching modes and suddenly focusing both eyes and fingers on a delicate operation. With a pulldown, if you try too hard to get the spray docked when you are rushed, you can put a big mechanical stress on the metal pillar tube at its base.

These are a few points in favor of the hose-in-a-spring-tube faucet. There are more.

To get the same advantages in a smaller form:
Some faucets are pulldowns, and the bent tube is a spring.
Some faucets are like this in looks but there is no extra hose to pull.
In both cases you have a self-returning spray wand: let go, and it knows where to go all by itself. Every time. Foolproof.
One more faucet is like these, returning to its shape, but it's not a steel spring: its body is rubbery black material that does what a spring does (self-arighting, self-erecting, self-returning, mechanical memory). It's the KWC Ono High Flex, which comes in three versions depending on the number of pillars you want. (The single pillar version has the handle on the side, a hard spout in the middle and the rubbery flexible spray on the top. This is the image you will see everywhere on the web). Its spray has a soft and a hard spray.

Soft spray is like a veggie rinse for weak leafed produce.
Hard spray is for cleanup, for "washdown", and can be ok for some produce.

Commercial/professional kitchen faucets have the big spring, floppy hose dangling from it, hand spray that has a lever and a ring to let you adjust whether the flow is left on or off or half-on until you move the ring again. These faucets are not for anyone's kitchen at home because they are overkill in almost every way. They are too big. Their jet is too powerful for cleanup at home, even ifthe jet is a modern lowflow version.

I only have answers to a few of your questions, hope that's OK.

(1) I think you'd be OK with those professional type faucets - would distract from the not-great view. It sounds like you don't like them though, so don't.

(3) I think there's spring, weighted, magnetic, and combinations thereof.

(6) I would say that you should go with something magnetic so the pullout spray never dangles.

(7) DO YOU HAVE ANY TRAINING TIPS FOR ME???? I need to get my fiance to like this so I can watch it more often. (Also I paid $40 for this set a few years ago, what the heck).

PS: I bought a bargain priced, pulldown magnetic faucet on eBay. Right height, etc. I thought I was getting such a deal. When it came the soap pump didn't work... and it was PURPLE, not oil rubbed bronze. So, make sure you see your item in person first.

Ah Tracie: training tips. Maybe try downloading the theme music and playing it in the house as a seed? That music is just the sprightliest, liveliest, happiest stuff ever. The grump I'm married to was literally waggling his feet at the ankles. It's so happy-making it just might get him in the mood. Also, the DVD has bonus parts that has a fairly tedious section about the making of it in which it is mentioned that many "manly" horse-shots are inserted which, bemusing though it sounds, may actually be sort of so: this movie does feel quite non-girlish. I don't know if it's really because there are horses galloping around or just because the emotions playing across everyone's quiet faces are so subtle and straight-forwardly obvious all at the same time. Quite a neat trick, that. Maybe your SO is a craftsman? I would say this is about as expertly crafted a production as I can imagine. I truthfully think a huge piece of what I'm so enthusiastic about is just how well it's been *done*. If I think about the story it's just precisely as silly and vapid as ever. But every instant is so perfect, who cares that it's pablum?

Is it faucets that's supposed to be the topic of conversation here? sigh.

Davidrol, this is the faucet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcB7YmnyI-o

I guess I had thought it was a delta product but maybe it's not. This video is actually quite accurate about its use. It works well. I've had it for, dunno, 7 months I guess and it's been flawless so far. I think it was cheap too; can't actually remember to tell the truth (an order of magnitude less than the KWC looks like).

I'm not sure I see much discussion about this now that I'm searching the web. This surprises me a little because it is very good...

Hey, I thought I was the only one who thinks of HD as home despot.

Could this faucet I already have actually provide everything I need? And at a modest price no less? I wonder if I'm just making everything too hard by even looking any further? It's not as if I have any complaints; it just feels as if I should get something fancier.... But it does seem as if the pan-on-counter filling option is pretty great too as the sink I'm getting is deep and lifting full pots out is a nuisance (though it must be said: good exercise; where's the gain if everything in life becomes so easy you must actually go to an artificial gym to stay in shape?)

Also, a question then: if you have a pullout faucet as davidrol mentioned and I hadn't thought about: you must store that pulling-out hose underneath the sink when not in use. Does that mean I wont be able to fit a drawer underneath the sink? I was really hoping to sneak one in under there.... This implies another score for the cobra. Why isn't everyone using this faucet?

Here is a link that might be useful: flexible faucet

I've not seen/heard of the Cobra but it's very telling to me that there is no full pic of that faucet on the manufacturer's website -- just a teaser than I could find. The installation guide has no dimensions!

Perhaps I'm overly cautious but I see flashing red lights.

This may be the greatest faucet discovery ever. But where does it sit on the sink deck? How heavy is that head? What happens when you need to put it down while you're washing something. It doesn't seem to hold itself up at all.

Drawers cannot usually go below a sink because the sink and plumbing are in the way. Some clever folk can get a little tilt-down cubby for storage in front of the sink but then the sink is not pulled forward.

I've had experience with pull outs vs pull down faucets. The reason I'm not such a pull out fan is that the faucet heads are heavy and cumbersome to use. The Cobra takes that even farther. The pull down is much easier to handle (disclosure: I have both).

The pull downs have various "spout reach" lengths. That's to say the hoses can be different length -- specs say how long. Those hoses have weights that help them operate smoothly.

Having said all that, faucet choices are highly personal. If that's what works for you then go for it. But there are issues.

¿ Not sure what you mean by "telling" ... I have this faucet already myself. I do love it. It can sit anywhere on the sink deck as far as I know ... not sure how to answer that though; what constraints are there? I should look underneath mine to check! The head isn't all that heavy - is that good or bad? Don't know that either... The thing definitely holds itself fine, from straight up (watch out!) to any angle in the sink. I included a video in my post - try cutting and pasting that; or I could in the bottom of this too I suppose ... as I mentioned, this is quite accurate of my experience with it, actually.

I'm beginning to think then this is a marketing issue; that what is claimed would seem terrific to you if it were all true. But it is; again, I've had one for 7 months now. Funny that I may have been using the Holy Grail and didn't know it.

Here is a link that might be useful: demonstration of this cobra faucet

aliris, where did you find your Cobra faucet and, if you don't mind, how much was it?

My only concern is how long it would last, holding up to all that pushing and pulling. But it's definitely nifty! Thanks for mentioning it,

Becky

I just am old school in that I like the spec sheets to have all the dimensions and I like to see a whole photo of something -- but the video does it. Thanks for linking.

It looks a very clever faucet and different. If you have one, and like it, that's a great recommendation for others. Perhaps it will catch on.

Sort of like a cross between a Kohler Karbon and pull down with a big head and no neck tube.

Hi Becky. I live in West LA and I got it from Jackie at Lincoln Pipe, 310-396-2667. She really is terrific and I love her store. I'm sure she would send you one if you just called. Definitely tell her I sent you -- um I suppose you should email offlist for my real name? Or if you tell her I'm the person who gave her the bike at Xmas time for her needy-kids drive that would work. She'll grill you, though, as to what happened to me; I haven't been in in a while.

I didn't realize it wasn't widely available. But Jackie has a select small amount of stuff and what she chooses is, I believe, good. She's very high on that touch-faucet (Delta?) too. I would be spending more time with her if she hadn't screwed up a bathroom faucet purchase for me. That gave me, for better or worse, the permission I was looking for to go the cheaper internet route, but it's always a dilemma about supporting brick-mortar v internet. Most of the bigger "brick-mortar" places are *also* internet, but not so this place. This is truly small, single-family. They have potted toilets all over the place. They're located in a renovated garage; that should give you an idea of the size of their "display floor". Their coffee is delicious and I'm missing the weekend fantastic cinnamon rolls as I write - I had thought about going in this morning but didn't make it! :(

Anyway, I had no idea this was so limitedly available. If we could boost it that would be rather terrific.

If Jackie can't/won't mail it to you I'm happy to. Email offlist. Thanks.

Does anyone want a photo of the underside of my deck mount? It's a tube about 8" max, I haven't measured it. The 20" of the nozzle is the measurement to the base of the nozzle head to the start of the crinkling, so that means the hose is probably a little bit longer.

Thanks for all the info, aliris. I'm just in the inquiry stage so far, plus I'm in rural western Canada, so I'd probably have to find a distributor in Edmonton or Calgary, or if that's too much of a pipe dream, Vancouver...

Plus wall-mount wouldn't work for the new kitchen. But it would for the laundry room, and with all the eggs we wash down there, a Cobra would be handy : ).

I don't know if it's widely available or not. Where I live, Home Despot rules, and there just aren't too many bricks and mortar stores nearby. If we make the five-hour roundtrip drive to the big city, most of the stores are big box anyway, sigh.

Becky

Hey Becky -- It comes in a deck mount as well; that's what I have currently. They're both $195.99USD... not sure they're in stock though...yes, they currently have 3. They keep them in stock. Evidently they're made or distributed or in some way associated with Cuisinart. They're about to start shipping a version for showers as well.

If it turns out you'd like one I'm happy to send you one. I lived in Canada last year and still have a CDN acct so I'm happy to just send you, say, the one I'm currently using (if you can't find one through normal channels). Just contact me offlist.

It's very modern looking...I'm not sure if all kitchens could pull it off design-wise.

Faucets in general...I think most pulldown faucets today not only have a "locking spray/stream (meaning you use a button or switch to turn to spray or stream w/o having to hold down a button or lever) as well as a "memory" of what it was last used on. I know both my Kohler Vinnata (pulldown) and Kohler Fairfax (pullout) do.

A "pause" function is probably far less common (neither of my faucets have it).

As to magnetic vs other, I don't think there's really that much of a difference. My Vinnata does not have a "magnetic" head, but as long as I get the head in the approximate location, it snaps up and stays at the position I left it (no matter what angle...a very nice feature!). For the magnetic, I think you also have to get the head near its docking location b/f it will snap into place.

Delta touch-faucets...you have to touch it somewhere to work! I prefer the idea of the Tapmaster, but the Tapmaster is probably more expensive than the Delta faucet.

Here is a link that might be useful: Cobra PSS-162 specs

Good for you finding the specs buehl. That's what I like to see.

>the Tapmaster is probably more expensive than the Delta faucet.

Yes, it is. The Tapmaster alone is more than the Pilar in chrome, significantly more, and then you still need a faucet. Of course, you do get the freedom to use any faucet you like, which is very nice. I like the idea of the touch faucets, but don't like separate handle on the pilar while the addison is enormous.

The cobra is really cool. I don't think I'd bother with the deck mounted version for myself, but if I were having a wall-mounted faucet I'd be all over that.

aliris, thanks so much for the offer! We're not ready yet for a faucet, but I'll keep that in mind if we start moving faster than expected (ha!).

Good luck finding something that works for you, whether it's the Cobra under your nose or something different : ).

Becky