"Posted by lindac ------------------- Sorry...I was confused...hydraulics has to do with the mechanical properties of liquids not the expansion co-efficient of a liquid. " Hydraulics: many thermostats/thermometers inside an oven use the expansion of a fluid to mechanically actuate control systems to adjust/limit oven temperature. This is similar to the thermostat in your cars radiator in action, or a self-powered vent in a greenhouse. "A BTU is a measure of energy....specifically the energy needed to heat a pound of water one degree...Farenheit. It is not a measure of heat. Someone with more of a physics background than either of us, please weigh in here? " It has been a long time since Physics 101. I may be terminologically incorrect in the precise definition of units. You have said exactly what I was trying to convey, a measure of energy, as you indicated. The energy contained in the specific heat of whatever metal the thermometer is converting to the specific heat of the meat it is trying to measure. No, it is not a measure of heat. We all know the unit to measure heat is degrees in C or F. "But I do feel qualified to state that "calorific value" is a term applied to things that produce energy not store it as a hot probe may....and "irregardless" is a "non standard word"....that is to say not considered good form nor standard usage. " 1 calorie = 0.00396566683 btu. I agree "irregardless" is to be used in informal wrting only. I am sorry. Just curious, shouldn't there be a hyphen in "non-standard"? Or spelled "nonstandard"? "I know...I am quibbling...but so did you with the whole business of the conductivity of the metal used in an oven temperature probe. " I believe I have mostly been answering questions you have raised all along because I respect your wisdom and knowledge. "The conclusion (if I may be so bold) seems to be, that a plug-in thermometer may be less than spot-on exact, but in the grand scheme of food preparation it doesn't matter a whit. For the most part they work just fine, they are standard on many appliances and accuracy depends largely on the placement of the probe." I have said it, I will say it again. I was only inititally answering the question raised by plllog . I dont believe I have said that mechanical oven thermometer can never be made functional. I have point out some inherent limitations possibly manufacturers will need to address. I have pointed out that my concern is only for food safety in low temperature meat cooking with mechanical thermometers, because, as far as I know, none of them are required to be calibrated to be accurate. If you are off by 10 or 20 degrees in low temperature cooking, you can be in serious trouble. And I apology to all you experts here who find this thread to be boring and excessive. I believe many of us are not as knowledgeable as your are, me included, and we are all members of this fine forum. dcarch

There's a lot of things involved with laundry. There's no perfect solution for all situations. These websites that claim to tell you what things cost are seldom accurate for more than the one or two instances they show. You CANNOT say it will cost you $___ to do a load of clothes since there's all the variables. Let's start with water temperatures. How much heating will depend on the temperature of the water in the first place. Anyone who lives in a northern climate knows that the water temperature from the tap is far different on Christmas Eve than on the 4th of July! Then comes the issue of terminology. "Hot", "warm" and "cold" are relative terms. Some laundry is fine to wash in "cold" water, but not in nearly ice water! "Cold" water in laundry terms (check your detergent specs) should be 70 - 80° so many times to get "cold" water, you would need to heat it! Plus keep in mind that detergents do work anywhere near as well in temperatures below 60°. Powders especially, don't dissolve as well in truly cold water and even liquids don't dissolve as well. If they don't dissolve, they don't do the job as well. And then there's the issue of cost of heating. If you use steam, natural gas, propane, electric, wood or your mother-in-law's flaming breath, it'll have a different cost to heat it and many of them will vary from time of year. So be careful getting sucked in by these websites. They can be used as a guideline for educating yourself but don't take everything as gospel. Some other things here that are interesting: I'm always amused with people using bluing. Why? Do you know what bluing is? It's not "whiting"! Bluing dyes your clothes blue and it's an optical illusion to make you think your clothes are more white. Similar in concept to different lighting making things look different. Bluing washes out and has to be replaced to continue the illusion. As far as hot water shrinking clothes, well, that's seldom true. "Hot" water to many people in laundry is only 95°-120°! Your dryer gets much hotter than that so how can body-temperatures shrink clothes? Now if you boil your clothes, that's different but I doubt many here use near-boiling water temperatures. I think most would be surprised how cold their water temps are. I haven't even addressed heat losses in the pipes and the machines yet. Many people have their water heaters set too low. Only some washers have built-in heaters. So if you use a frontload, have your water heater set at only 120° or less, and factor in the pipe losses, then the loss in the machine since the colder machine tub will cool the water and since FLs use less water it'll cool more than a toploader, you can have some really cold washing temps. Take a thermometer and measure the water in the drum sometime. Some washers have a warm rinse option but they're fewer and fewer with the regulations now mandating energy efficiency. Mine doesn't have a warm rinse option. Occasionally I run a short wash cycle to fill the tub, then switch to rinse and spin. And my machine does a spin drain. I'm skeptical about the debate over neutral drain vs spin drain allegedly putting dirt back into clothes. After all, in a spin drain (like front loaders) you're essentially forcing the dirty water back through or into the clothes again too, instead of letting it settle on them. This is part of rinsing clothes IMO. And part of the detergent's job to lift and suspend the dirt. I'm also skeptical when people say they use so much less detergent in a front load. Look at any HE detergent and you get the same number of loads from a bottle or box. And by the comments of the laundramaniacs in the laundry forums, you need to use enough detergent to get the maximum effect from a front loader. Insufficient detergent, too much softener (which I don't use anyway), too cold a water are all contributing factors to smelly washers and mold buildup. Warmer water cleans better. That's been proven. Now there's an issue of how dirty do your clothes get as to how much cleaning do they need. Some people don't get their clothes dirty and really a rinse would "clean" the clothes sufficiently. I used to use cold water washes under the theory of saving money but after reading the science in laundry, the truth about temps and realizing hot, warm and cold are ambiguous and undefined terms, I was most things now in 130°-140° water and use a tap cold rinse (since I don't have another option) most of the time and occasionally will warm rinse things if I feel it necessary. Saving money? I laugh when I see people spend upward of $1.50 per load on imported detergents and then quibble about a few pennies to heat some water. I tend to save money on detergent and not feel bad about spending a few cents to clean bacteria out of the clothes a little better. I use Tide Free & Sensitive detergent and pay only a few cents per load for detergent. I refuse to use softener, another saving and no dryer sheets, savings again. Plus the reality is I can't really see a difference since going to warmer wash temps in my bills, but I see an improvement in my laundry.

I'm using the Android OS on an older Samsung and I went to the web and typed the URL, www.forums.gardenweb.com, then navigated to the Garden Forums/Hot Peppers... Voila!!!

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