Dcarch;
Good info !!!
I always checked my thermometers as you mentioned.
In the winter I check my outdoor and refrig thermometers.
By placing them outdoors in a shallow pan of water,
just as the temp drops to 33 deg. and still dropping.

When it reaches 32 deg. for a while and the water starts to freeze , I know it's accurate.

Don't forget about the Altitude.
I think water boils here at about 208 Deg.
We are about 1250 ft.

I noted that my electronic outdoor remote Thermometer is off 3 degrees.
They said in the booklet that they could be off.

Didn't know this until after the fact.
Have a good one,
LOU

You have forgotten the thermometer with the expanding liquid in the tube.
It's been a very long time since I have cooked anything by leaving the thermometer in it nor have I used the oven probe since I got a digital thermometer.
But my gut feeling tells me that that amount of metal deep into the though of a turkey doesn't change the reading in any significant way. And if you are noticing charring around the place where the probe or thermometer is inserted, you are cooking your meat lots more than I like anything cooked.
I cook a turkey with a metal "thing" holding the legs together...I get no charring around that metal thing. I often close up a turkey with pins, or hold a fillet together with pins...I notice no charring. I have metal skewers that I thread meat on and veggies to grill...I see no evidence that the metal conducts heat to the center of the meat chunks in an y way...it might but to such a small degree that it's not noticeable.
And I also find the meat charred in a glass or pottery pan in the oven....that's why a cake browns, even in a glass pan.
One thing you are forgetting is that the cooler meat also conducts heat away from the thermometer
What do you mean by hydrolic thermometer?
The thermometer in your furnace, if it's not electronic works in the same principal as any coil/dial thermometer.
I know in your mind, a temperature probe that you leave in the meat shouldn't work, but in reality, when properly placed they do.
Then there are those plastic pop up things in a turkey...mechanical I am sure!. I have had one pop after 30 minutes in the oven and other times fail to pop when the turkey has been forgotten in the flurry of Christmas gifts and gets way over done.

Here is a link that might be useful: Taylor thermometer.

sooooo, what about the original thread made it seem that "Plllog asks not to continue further on that thread, so I am respecting his/hers request." ????

I've re-read it a couple of times because THIS one was titled "hot topic" and I don't see anywhere in it where he/she requests that....it seems that he/she just doesn't want to bother with her probe anymore.....

"You have forgotten the thermometer with the expanding liquid in the tube. "

Thats what I also meant by "hydraulic thermometer". Any expanding liquid type. The Tayor thermometer you linked is a very good design for a meat thermometer. Glass body to avoid external heat distortion and metal tip for quick heat response. No other moving part to require re-calibration. Bi-metal type of thermometers may subject to metal fatigue at some point and lose accuracy.

"---And if you are noticing charring around the place where the probe or thermometer is inserted, you are cooking your meat lots more than I like anything cooked. Â"

Irregardless, the point is metal conducts heat very efficiently, a very basic fact.

"I cook a turkey with a metal "thing" holding the legs together...I get no charring around that metal thing. I often close up a turkey with pins, or hold a fillet together with pins...I notice no charring. I have metal skewers that I thread meat on and veggies to grill...I see no evidence that the metal conducts heat to the center of the meat chunks in an y way...it might but to such a small degree that it's not noticeable. "

Charring is a function of how high the temperature is and how long you baking the item.

"And I also find the meat charred in a glass or pottery pan in the oven....that's why a cake browns, even in a glass pan. "

Same explanation as above.

"One thing you are forgetting is that the cooler meat also conducts heat away from the thermometer "

Very true. The BTUs (calorific value) contained in the mass of the metal shaft is very little. Because the good conductivity of the metal, the heat very quickly reaches an equilibrium with the meat and the external heat starts to be imported by the shaft into the meat.

"What do you mean by hydrolic thermometer? "

Typo. Hydraulic thermometer.

"The thermometer in your furnace, if it's not electronic works in the same principal as any coil/dial thermometer. "

I donÂt know. I have not taken one apart. I suspect it would be electronic in design because it is a plug-in device. Electronic ones are easier to be designed to fuction better.

"I know in your mind, a temperature probe that you leave in the meat shouldn't work, but in reality, when properly placed they do. "

Again, I only saying that it is a very complicated device if it is not designed properly, it can be of concern if you have a habit of cooking at low temperature. If you mostly cook at high temperature, there is nothing to worry about.

"Then there are those plastic pop up things in a turkey...mechanical I am sure!. --------"

Those should be made illegal.

dcarch

I agree, stacy, all pllog said was that it probably wasn't worth fussing about anymore.

Annie

Sorry...I was confused...hydraulics has to do with the mechanical properties of liquids not the expansion co-efficient of a liquid.
A BTU is a measure of energy....specifically the energy needed to heat a pound of water one degree...Farenheit. It is not a measure of heat.
Someone with more of a physics background than either of us, please weigh in here?
But I do feel qualified to state that "calorific value" is a term applied to things that produce energy not store it as a hot probe may....and "irregardless" is a "non standard word"....that is to say not considered good form nor standard usage.
I know...I am quibbling...but so did you with the whole business of the conductivity of the metal used in an oven temperature probe.
The conclusion (if I may be so bold) seems to be, that a plug-in thermometer may be less than spot-on exact, but in the grand scheme of food preparation it doesn't matter a whit. For the most part they work just fine, they are standard on many appliances and accuracy depends largely on the placement of the probe.

"Posted by lindac ------------------- Sorry...I was confused...hydraulics has to do with the mechanical properties of liquids not the expansion co-efficient of a liquid. "

Hydraulics: many thermostats/thermometers inside an oven use the expansion of a fluid to mechanically actuate control systems to adjust/limit oven temperature. This is similar to the thermostat in your cars radiator in action, or a self-powered vent in a greenhouse.

"A BTU is a measure of energy....specifically the energy needed to heat a pound of water one degree...Farenheit. It is not a measure of heat. Someone with more of a physics background than either of us, please weigh in here? "

It has been a long time since Physics 101. I may be terminologically incorrect in the precise definition of units. You have said exactly what I was trying to convey, a measure of energy, as you indicated. The energy contained in the specific heat of whatever metal the thermometer is converting to the specific heat of the meat it is trying to measure. No, it is not a measure of heat. We all know the unit to measure heat is degrees in C or F.

"But I do feel qualified to state that "calorific value" is a term applied to things that produce energy not store it as a hot probe may....and "irregardless" is a "non standard word"....that is to say not considered good form nor standard usage. "

1 calorie = 0.00396566683 btu. I agree "irregardless" is to be used in informal wrting only. I am sorry. Just curious, shouldn't there be a hyphen in "non-standard"? Or spelled "nonstandard"?

"I know...I am quibbling...but so did you with the whole business of the conductivity of the metal used in an oven temperature probe. "

I believe I have mostly been answering questions you have raised all along because I respect your wisdom and knowledge.

"The conclusion (if I may be so bold) seems to be, that a plug-in thermometer may be less than spot-on exact, but in the grand scheme of food preparation it doesn't matter a whit. For the most part they work just fine, they are standard on many appliances and accuracy depends largely on the placement of the probe."

I have said it, I will say it again.
I was only inititally answering the question raised by plllog . I dont believe I have said that mechanical oven thermometer can never be made functional. I have point out some inherent limitations possibly manufacturers will need to address. I have pointed out that my concern is only for food safety in low temperature meat cooking with mechanical thermometers, because, as far as I know, none of them are required to be calibrated to be accurate. If you are off by 10 or 20 degrees in low temperature cooking, you can be in serious trouble.

And I apology to all you experts here who find this thread to be boring and excessive. I believe many of us are not as knowledgeable as your are, me included, and we are all members of this fine forum.

dcarch

Dcarch:
Apology accepted.
About time you admitted I'm an expert. LOL !!!
Keep Posting all your boring info. I enjoy it.
I won't try to get over on you, with all my knowledge.

LOU

Dcarch:
Does it matter if you roast a Turkey, breast side down ???
Lou

dcarch,

I've always found your posts, including those on this thread, considerate, polite and on topic. It's easy for the tone of a post, in black and white without voice or facial expression, to be misunderstood. I think that happened here. You have a very direct style of writing. No innuendo should be read into it.

Also, it's the nature of the medium, informal as it is, to contain occasional grammatical and factual slip-ups. I did not find your errors in this thread to be fatal to points you were trying to make.

I appreciate what you try to do in your posts. Most of them show a remarkably good understanding of applied physics.

Jim

"Posted by hawk307Dcarch: Does it matter if you roast a Turkey, breast side down ???
Lou "

I would say not much, especially in a convection oven.
In a regular oven possibly there is an advantage face up.

The temperature near the top inside you oven is generally hotter, having the turkey face up will allow the thickest part of the bird in the hotest zone.

I am sure there will be some who will say," garble garble, all nonsence."

dcarch

Jim,

Thank you very much.
Interestingly by coincidence, I was just over reading your post in WFD. I was impressed by your lobster bisque and how you presented it; which reminds me of a cartoon I did a long time ago, which I think is rather on-topic of this thread and this forum.
I don't know if anyone has the same "non standard" humor as I have.

dcarch

Jim:
I second that but don't tell dcarch.
LOU