Humic acid (HA) is formed during the humification process (decaying/composting) as plant and animal matter break down. The main source of HA is lignin, which is the most common bio-compound on earth next to cellulose - it's what makes plants stiff. As the organic matter breaks down, it forms several acids called carboxylates and phenoxides. While there are several acids formed during the breakdown of organic matter, they are all pretty much the same. It's probably easy to envision why that is true when we consider that all plants are made up of the same building blocks (nutrients/elements) in almost exactly the same ratio. IOW, there is little difference, chemically speaking, between sequoias and snapdragons. Also important to consider is that peat moss is made up of a combination of cellulose, lignins, and humic acids. This fact is probably what would allow any/all container media producers to lay claim to the fact that their product contains HA. As I mentioned upthread - advertisers often lay claim to things their research shows the general public might consider a huge plus, when it's an intrinsic part of all similar products. Shell Oil used to advertise that their gasoline contained lead to guard against spark knock, when in fact all gasolines used to contain lead. If I thought a little, I'm sure I could quickly come up with another dozen examples more current. I'll leave an answer I posted to a thread on the container forum back in Nov '08. The question posed was, "Does humic acid serve any purpose for container plants?" I drew a delineation between mineral soils and container media primarily because the immense volume of organic matter in almost all container media. This would even include the gritty mix, which has a 1/3 organic component - roughly 6-10 times what you would find in most natural and garden soils. Hopefully, we have built or are using container media with a suitable structure, but even if we were not, the type of structural improvements usually associated with the use of HA in mineral soils do not apply to container media. Where container media is concerned, if the structure is not there from the beginning, the only way you can add it is by adding enough soil particles of the size required to physically achieve your objective, You cannot change container media structure by adding HA or its associates. The reply to the question (about plants in containers) I mentioned a little upthread: "Humic acid (and its accompanying fulvic acid) are most often used as an amendment to improve the quality of clay soils, sandy soils, and/or other soils organically deficient. The primary value of adding humic acid to clay or other compacted soils comes from the resulting structural break-up (increase in friability) of these soils. Obviously, this should not be an issue in the soils you are using. In sandy soils, humic acid's value is in its addition of organic material to soils, which would also in the end improved water retention and root function, neither of which are anything you would be lacking in the soils you use. In some soils, humic acid can also play another role in facilitating a plant's ability to assimilate nutrients. Humic acid can lower pH and help unlock otherwise bound nutrients in the soil that might not be unavailable under conditions of higher pH. Again, this should not be an issue for you, given the fertilizer regimen you use and a known favorable pH. Finally, humic acid can stimulate soil micro-biology in some soils, increasing the numbers and activity levels of soil micro-populations, the primary function of which are to make available minerals and nutrients which could be stored within the humic acid complex and hopefully available on an 'as needed' basis. Again, not much of a benefit when you consider you're supplying a full compliment of nutrients in a readily available form on a regular and 'as needed' basis. I suppose if I was to sum it up, I would say that a build-up or adequate measures of humic acid in garden soils is to be desired & most effectively accomplished by the regular addition of organic materials to the soil. How valuable wholesale applications of humic acid are to garden soils is probably highly variable by soil type, soil composition, and the intrinsic quality/value of the individual product at hand. It's value in containers would probably be extremely marginal at best or go completely unnoticed (as it did when I tried the product for my container plantings several years ago) but there's nothing to stop you from trying it." Al

Talk about bringing back memories. When I was taking care of orphaned birds at Florida Audubon, mourning doves were the number one babies brought in. Even more than mockingbirds. Why? Because mourning doves build the crappiest excuses for nests you've ever seen! Usually just a few flimsy sticks shoved together, with plenty of gaps. The eggs and babies fall out all the time. I guess it's nature's way of making sure mourning doves don't take over the planet! I've raised more babies like these in the picture than I can possibly remember. And in those days, they didn't have a commercially prepared formula for them like I think they do today. Gary is exactly right. All members of the dove family start their chicks with pigeon's milk, regurgitated from the crop of parent. In my day, we had to mix up a concoction of mashed hardboiled egg yolk and canned milk with vitamins, etc, added. Then we put it in a plastic bag with the corner snipped off (like a pastry tube) and the babies would stick their beaks inside and drink it down. It was a royal pain in the neck, but it worked, as the babies thought they were feeding from a parent's mouth that way. They know much more about saving orphan birds today and have better products and formulas available than what we had to make do with. But it is still an enormous job, and with most birds, it only makes US feel better to save them. Most of the songbirds brought in are not in any real danger of decline, but most PEOPLE don't want to see the babies die. So bird folks are still out there saving them, and I can't fault them for that. I did it, too, and would do it again if I had to. Of course, sometimes certain species are at a point when it would be criminal NOT to save every single bird possible. And for me, the whole experience was interesting and educational, and I learned a LOT about birds, wildlife, and the vagaries of Mother Nature. Marcia

Its really hard to be fearful of a number when it is the day you were born ! Thanks for the info Sue :) D`Ann

no, we don't get into trouble, but i worry that it has scared the old ones away, do you guys notice that its just us who are here anymore, don't get me wrong, i love to chat with ya'll and read your posts, even though i may not post anything, i mean, sometimes i may be having a rough day, and that will brighten up my day in a heart beat!! **big smile** but, we'll be able to at the top choose between discussion/conversation, and that's where we can just blab llike Lord knows, we know how!! LOL and on the discussion side is where all the real stuff is happening and EG can have his OT of compost cuz we all hate going to other places when we can get right here!! LOL and no one can do a great one about them vegeis and fruits like you guys/girls!! and carol with her container ones hey! that's OT !! yes, i'm grasping **smiling** i want them back BWAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!! ~Medo