The IntelliFlo pump is the best thing for your pool. For water features it would be could to control the flow rate for a light flow, or a heavy flow. For pools, it is the only way to go. Most builders are staying away from it because of the "Unknown" factor and are not up to speed on it. www.pentairpool.com will give you more info. Ask him how a pump (2hp) running all day at over 2800 watts per hour for 8 hours a day is better than a pump that can be programed down to less than 500 watts an hour (cheaper than running your pool light) for 12 hours is cheaper and better? Plus the IntelliFlo sounds like a quite hair dryer when it is running. If you have any questions, email me directly at Clearvalleypool@verizon.net

I've got brand new equipment.

A pentair 4x160 for my pool/filter, and a 3 hp pentair whisperflo for my spa jets (yes, maybe overkill).

the 4x160 is much quieter, often inaudible, and I love the adjustment. So far, I love it....

and yep, pb's recommend what they know... it will take your pb several more hours to set up the pentair, especially if he's unfamiliar with it (like mine was)

Get it and enjoy!

You don't say where you are, but several states are about to require variable or two speed pumps on new pools. California may already, Texas has a bill that has not yet passed, but probably will. I should have listened to the kid at the computer store back in 99, when he said "I wouldn't buy anything right now" trying to warn me that the next big generation of home Pc's was about three months away. Im stuck with a computer that was state of the art for those three months, then became obsolete.
The intelliflo is the future I believe. I ask the other reps if they are going to have the technology, and they say their working on it.
To your other question......yes. Not only do builders get better pricing on one brand of equipment at the distributor, they also get cash or equipment at the end of the year based on how much they buy.

ctm14,
IMO your PB has it backwards. Pool filtration is normally the biggest useage item. Spa jet pumps and water feature pumps are normally used for short periods of time. Jet pumps might run 20 minutes to an hour during spa use and water feature pumps might run 1-2 hours at a time depending on the customer and both of these types of pumps may not operate for days between useage. A filter pump needs to run each day and the industry is pretty uniform in the view that long filtration at low speeds are better than short filtration with large pumps. This has always been common sense.
In 2008, California will require 2-speed or variable speed pumps on pool pumps that are over 3/4 HP.

Thanks everyone,

I am in San Diego California, and energy costs are always a concern. I figured the Jandy guy was just pushing Jandy because it is their preferred supplier. What are everyone's thoughts about my other pump requirements. I will go with the 4x160 for filtration but will need to also power an 8ft square spa with 8 jets, & three small trough spill overs (12"wide from the raised beam) into the main rectangular pool.

Thanks,
ctm14

ctm14,
PB's may disagree and there are several ways to accomplish your goal. My preference would be to use two pumps operating 4 jets each. This is the easiest to set up and operate. You could also run a combination of 3-4 jets off of the 4x160 and the other 4-5 jets off of separate pump. This would give you the advantage of being able to program a couple different flow rates for the jets on the 4x160. If your spa is raised you will most likely need an air blower on each set of jets. Pump size will depend on the flow rate of the jets and the length of the plumbing run from the spa to the equipment and pipe size. Your PB will figure this when you decide what you want.

Depending on the material you are using for your spillways you should figure about 15-20 GPM per foot of spillway. Consider a manufactured spillway if you want a clean look and shape to the water coming out of the beam.

Golfgeek,

Thanks you have answered a number of my posts. A bit of background, my spa will be sunk in a corner of the pool so the auto cover will be able to cover everything. I am interested in what you are referring to when you state a manufactured spillway. Are you referring to a sheer decent? I will have a raised beam forming a planter at the back of the pool and have seen U shapped troughs that expose the water for a few feet before it dumps in to the pool. The builder was concerned about the additional masonry work to create this effect. Is there a manufactured spillway as I describe?

-Ctm14

Hi ctm14,

My pb is also putting in all Jandy equipment. I can guess who you are working with. I raised lot of questions on this forum about pumps and decided to go with Jandy 2 speed for filteration. The 8 " spa will have a seperate 2 HP pump. Whether the 2 speed (at lower speed) will work with Solar panels is still a question. My equipment will be installed next week.

Does anyone know how much is the price differential between a variable speed intelliflow and 2 speed Jandy?

Thanks
--Scal

A Pentair 4X160 costs me almost 400 more than I pay for a Jandy two speed. The 3.2 costs me almost 800 more.
I disagree with your builder, everyday pool circulation should be at the lowest electrical consumption necessary to make a turn. I do agree with him about the water features, a variable speed pump is great in this application.

See ya,
Kelly

Unless you have a ton of things to control, your best bet is to go with a 2-speed pump and a low cost 2-speed control. I suggest Intermatic PE153, which is a 3 circuit digital control that will handle high speed, low speed plus one other piece of equipment (light, cleaner pump, water feature pump, etc.) Fireman switch is built in, plus a bunch of other feaures. Cost of the PE153 is $350 depending on where you buy it and it complies with Title 20.

Hickster

Here is a link that might be useful: PE153 website page

To hickster:

All due respect, but I couldn't disagree with you more. While 2-speed pumps do save energy, the Intelliflo pumps give you much more versatility. A two speed pump is kind of like having a choice between Sizzler or Ruth's Chris steakhouse. There are no choices in between.

I, for one, run my Intelliflo at a little more than 1/4 speed (about 950 rpm) most of the time. This is a considerable cost savings over the 1750 rpm "low" speed of a 2-speed pump. I bump up my speed to about 1500 rpm when I'm heating my pool. I run my Hayward Navigator at about 1900 rpm. And finally, I bump my pump to about 2700 rpm for about 45 minutes a day for surface skimming. None of this would be possible with a 2-speed pump.

For CTM14, since you're in San Diego, your electricity costs are probably comparable to mine in Murrieta, CA (SCE territory). My highest tier is $.37 per kilowatt, although Edison had planned to raise it to $.48 per kW. In a high cost environment like SoCal, you should practically demand that your PB install nothing other than an Intelliflo. It will pay for itself in less than 2 years.

Hi All,
if this is already common knowledge, sorry, but i ran accross this and thought i would spread this to the owner builders who are planning as i am now a pool...if you are an SCE or SDGE customer here in SOCAL, then there are additional rebates for getting a multispeed pump. FOR SCE it is $400 right now if you purchase before the end of the year...pretty good!!!

http://www.sce.com/NR/rdonlyres/F4924B13-4B48-4DBB-B5D6-BDA83CCD08EC/0/2007_HEERProgramApp_83007.pdf

http://www.sdge.com/residential/singleFamilyRebate/pool_pumps.shtml

Cheers,

Why anyone would want an antiquated Intermatic time clock when they could have the new Pentair SunTouch control system for less money is beyond me. The SunTouch integrates with the 4x160 and IntelliChlor just like EasyTouch and IntelliTouch do. Plus, you get 2 actuators in the box to boot!

ctm14,
To answer your first post, the answer is yes...PB do get different perks from various vendors. And I am not positive, but I believe the 5 year warr is not given by Jandy, but an extention of a 3 year that the PB is paying for. Again, if I am correct, many Hallmark customers were sold on the same great idea. If the PB is "locked in" with only using the Jandy equipment, this is likely why they don't or won't offer the use of the Pentair or Starite magnet pumps. Their choice of vendor does not offer such a advanced motor matched up to their pumps. Therefore, they push what "their brand" has to offer...a 2-speed pump.

Peter11365,
You nailed it!!! And for customers out there that are still on the fence about using a 2-speed vs. the magnet pumps (intelliflo & intellipro), once your PB installs the 2-speed pump with the normal size plumbing(2" &2.5"), the 4x160 and LCD pump will not work to its full potential should you change your mind later. This is because with the use of the magnet pumps, PB need to install larger than "normal" diameter plumbing to minimize back pressure on the pump. My guess, if they are not up to speed on the benefits of the 4x160 pump, they may not be up to speed on the proper plumbing sizes for the pump they are installing either. Check what your pump wants (pipe size vs. pipe lengths & hp of pump) on the Jandy website.

More PB out there need to do what is right for their customers (and the enviroment) and at least option the 4x160 pump to their customers. Us PB can either look like we are up with the technologies of today, or stuck in the old days later. I believe this topic can give you referrals later with your happy clients that enjoyed your product without spending more money per month, or cost you in sales later with unhappy clients that wished they installed a 4x160.

To peterl1365:

I couldnt agree with you more concerning the versatility of the variable speed pump, however, be prepared to take out a second mortgage to purchase it. 80% of most customers donÂt require the versatility you describe. In addition, the "considerable" savings you mention is pennies at best. After computing a simple ROI, your payback would be over 20 years. Over time this price will drop and only then will it be a sensible option.

To landa mac:

If you are getting a Pentair SunTouch control for less money then the Intermatic time clock, please let me know where you are buying it from. I would love to purchase it. Last I looked the two speed clock from Intermatic was selling for $160 at distribution, therefore, please let me know where I can purchase a SunTouch for less then $160.

Thanks Much!

uskiman---

Where are you getting your numbers? The 3.2kw pump runs $1700.00. The payback on that is less than 18 months if programmed correctly. My own electricity bill is down 7kw a day compared to last year and I've led the same life. I dropped one in a few weeks ago that was literally using 80% less than the previous pump.

Not sure where you are but we're in Edison country where we are penalized for increasing usage. Our per kw price jumps 300% when we go over our "baseline" which does not even supply a normal household. Use more than 100% of that and you get bumped into another penalty rate. Three tiers in all right now with a 4th coming AND soon to be real time meters that will probably chuck out $1kw rates in a couple of years for using when they don't want you to.

This pump will keep you out of whatever highest tier you're in right now and that savings is not even taken into consideration in any Pentair sales literature. What you're saying this pump will save in a year (20) I can save in a month.

If owners are paying too much for the pump to make it unaffordable than that's their fault. This is the smartest decision anyone can make for their home next to a tankless water heater if they want to save money.

What's the payback on a plasma which everyone seems to need? I'm guessing it's a priority thing. How much do we dump into cell phones that don't last 2 years?

repair guy ---

Please dont misunderstand my post. I totally agree that replacing an old single speed low efficiency pump with a new high efficiency pump will give you significant savings. However, I dont agree the new high efficiency pump should be a variable speed in every situation.

There are many other "cost effective" options available to the consumer that meet the code requirements other then the most expensive and elaborate one. If you drive an old car, does that mean you need to replace it with a Ferrari? Obviously not!

Two speed pumps also give you considerable savings over single speed pumps. I understand A.O. Smith is now releasing a three speed pump and an even higher efficiency two speed pump giving you even more "affordable" options.

My 20 year payback referees to the difference in savings between the most expensive option "variable speed" and another more affordable and significantly less expensive option such as a "two speed". This delta savings is the 20 year difference I speak of.

" I understand A.O. Smith is now releasing a three speed pump and an even higher efficiency two speed pump giving you even more "affordable" options. "

I'll hop in the time machine and install a few.

It's never a good idea to crutch your arguements with something that has yet to happen.

The the VS3050, aka 4X160 is about $400 less than a VF, and about 2-300 more than a 2 speed pump. (1.5hp.).

The suntouch is far more sophisticated than a 2 speed timeclock and should be more expensive..

The argument is based on any existing two speed pumps that have been available for many years and is based on facts. If facts are a crutch, then you are correct.

In addition, the higher efficiency two speed pump from A.O. Smith debuted at the National Pool and Spa show in Orlando last month.

I agree with the Suntouch being more expensive, not sure about the sophisticated part, however my intent was to clear up the comment made by landa mac concerning his comment about the SunTouch conrol system selling for less money then an Intermatic time clock.

There's no way a SunTouch can be selling for less than any Intermatic clock. It's $400 wholesale. I totally agree that the "most expensive" option is not always the best for each job. I installed more two-speeds this week than I did variable. I also install the 4x160 when it warrants. I will go to the death that the most expensive option is no more than 18 months payback.

uskiman, As it appears you are standing by your "pennies at best" savings on a standard IntelliFlo job vs a two-speed I'll stand by my comment that it is not right. The option to replace a single speed motor with a two-speed AND the minimum type of controller is going to be almost $400.00. That puts a $1300 difference in the two or in some areas, $900 after rebate. That $900 will be made up in a year between the daily savings and the avoidance of the higher rate tiers.

Hickster, the lowest I could find a PE153F, which is Intermatic's time clock with a freeze protection probe (probably a good idea to get that too!!), was $300. When you add the cost of a couple of actuators (let's call it $75 each), that comes to $450.

Don't forget that SunTouch Pool/Spa COMES WITH 2 ACTUATORS IN THE BOX. It's a heck of a bargain.

I'm interested to know where you found the PE153F for $300? Was that online or a distributor? I just did a search online for the SunTouch. The cost was $450. The same sight shows the PE153 for $220. The PE153 is the lowest cost control for 2-speed pumps. It does not control actuators because all 2-speed applications do not include pool/spa combos. The way you stated your post, you made it sound like the PE153 was much more expensive than the SunTouch. NOt the case!!! I agree that the Intelliflo is a very efficient pump, but its not the right pump for every pool or pool/spa combo. There are 49 other states in this country that dont need to comply with Title 20 and the energy issues in California. Something to think about.

Check that. If you already have an existing Intermatic controller, the lowest cost control for a two-speed is not the PE153. It is the PE1353ME. This unit pops into the existing box and there is no labor charge to install a new box that a PE153 would require. $70 cheaper wholesale.

The PE153F at $300 online is about the same as everything else out there. Wholesale cost and buyer beware that they are getting the right thing for the great price.

Repair Guy is exactly right. The PE153 includes the P1353ME 3-circuit digital mechanism in a small metal enclosure (same enclosure as a T104, T101, etc.) There are literally millions of the small enclosures mounted on walls today that could easily be retro-fitted with the P1353ME mechanism. For example, a customer has a T101 for their filter pump and purchases a pool cleaner, which requires a booster pump. All that is necessary is to remove the T101 mechanism and snap in the P1353ME. The enclosure does not have to be removed. The clock can also operate a 2-speed pump AND a booster pump. Its also perfect for adding a water feature with lights to your backyard. So its sot only for two-speed pump conversions, but also for pool renovations, backyard renovations and installing additional pool equipment.

Wow!! so much info for a newbie so cal pool owner who simply went to leslies pool supply to check on a pump upgrade.My original single speed 2HP pump is from 1972 and my edison bill has been skyrocketing.I now find out i have to buy a pump today to get the $400 rebate savings.All i have is a 30,000 gal. pool but may want to put in a spa in the future. I have a DE filter that could use repacing too.

1...What total equipment to i need for the following??

4x160 + Suntouch controller? or does it make sense to go with the higher end unit?
Does the higher end unit need a controller?

3...Filter Comparison
Pentair Clean & Clear CartridgeFilter VS. DE

Wheres the cheapest place i can buy from and still get the Edison Rebate?

gman...

You actually need to be installed AND submitted to SCE for the rebate which ends 12/31. that will not allow you to order online real cheap. SCE has not announced the 2008 program so who knows if waiting a week will hurt or help.

If you buy the 3.2kw IntelliFlo, you do not need a controller. If you buy the 4x160, you need at least a SunTouch. You could also buy a multi-speed clock and an IntelliCom for the 4x160 for about the same cash and less installation costs.

For a California 1972 pool, you most certainly have 1.5" copper lines. You are limited by any large horsepower pump as that pipe will only support so much flow. With just a pool, the only time you have need for high flow is for vacuuming. You could install a 1.5HP two-speed pump for that purpose and default it to low speed all the time as required by Title 20 on Jan. 1 and this will save quite a bit over what you are using now. You could save a ton with a stand alone 3.2kw IntelliFlo as it will flow way less than any two-speed and your savings will be outrageous. Figure about 90% less than what you use now. That pump will need a professional install as it has the capacity to overpump your smaller, older system. The pump can be limited to a specific horsepower and the backdoor into the system is not known to the homeowner.

If you're in Leslies, avoid their so called "replacement seires" pump. It is a loser Hayward that will fail quickly. For filters, the use of cartridge vs DE is your own preference. The Pentair versions are the same tank. De filters better but is messier to clean. A good alternative is the QUAD DE which is a DE cartridge. The best of both worlds. Same tank.

Where are you located? I'm in Murrieta...

My pool has two 1.5" returns. One is plumbed into the pool heater and one goes straight back to the pool.Leslie tech saw this and thought it was odd but pools are like snowflakes right? No two are the same.
So that means i should be OK with that capacity going back to the pool right? I thought i might as well jump in and get the Hayward Pro 48 DE filter as well but i'm going to search for that one you suggested and check it out.
I looked at the edison link and it stated that one has to purchase by 12-31 and installation has to be done some time in february 08.I'm going back to look at it right now.

Just checked SCE site and it does state what i previously stated. Installation cut off is February 29,2008 or beforehand if funds depleted.

That must be up today. It was not there yesterday. I'll have to check it out.

Whats your rec on the 4x160 vs. the 3.2 variable with built in controller? Seems like the 3.2 is the same price and better considering the controller cost??

Pentair quad 4 vs. System 3?? Didn't understand why they made 2 that seem to be caveating the same qualities.

Which one is best??

The system 3 is not where you want to go. Don't buy it. You'll spend about the same on a 4x160 with controller vs a 3.2. If you're looking at rebate money, that is your choice. So it seems to make sense to go with the one that will consume less energy in the long run, the 3.2.

gman,

Where are you seeing that Feb 29, 08 info. The SCE site still has the 2007 rebate expiring on Monday and no new info on 2008 yet.

Page 7 , top right hand paragraph of the Edison 2007 Rebate Program.

Send me your email and i'll send u back the link.....Gman

sker66@sbcglobal.net

Saw that but you still need to purchase by 12/31. Also, historically HEERS funds do not last through the end of the year so it might be a gamble to go into 2008. They even make that statement in the paragraph you reference.

Hey Repair Guy,

I noticed that you are in Murrieta. Are you the one with the white van with the Intelliflo ad that I often see parked on Washington Ave near Old Town?

If so, I like the fact that you're aggressively recommending this pump.

No, that's our local warranty Pentair warranty station who will remain nameless among the local pool service community for good reason when it comes to this pump.

I have the white Chevy 2500HD with the Authorized IntelliFlo Installer plastered on the side in 4" letters.

However, I live off of Washington so flag me down someday and we'll talk pumps.

I'm actually headed off to the Starbucks now.

Repair guy....we're neighbors. Do you have a shop in Murrieta?

Nope, my truck is my shop. Cheaper for you w/o overhead and most certainly more on the truck than the average store.

I don't know if it's allowable on this forum, but I wouldn't mind if you posted a shameless plug for your services. Lots of pools here in Murrieta/Temecula.

BTW, I live right off Washington too. A little bit north of the high school.

Nope, not allowed. You can only e-mail people as they let you post an e-mail. We're getting closer. I'm in the Copper Canyon tract.

Hey Repair Guy,

Since you admit to being an authorized IntelliFlo Installer and this forum is designed to give the best advice for a particular question, dont you think your advice is a bit bias?

Some of your answers appear to be very questionable!!

You can take it any way you want it. I can tell you I know a lot about the pump just as well as a lot of other products. I did not know admitting to any area of expertise was a crime when people ask about it. Is that not why people come to places like this?

I feel that 25 years of repair experience is sufficient to offer advice on most things if people ask. I don't work for Pentair so I have no agenda. If you are looking to get the most efficient performance out of a pool pump today, the fact remains that the IntelliFlo is it. Jandy does not have a comparable pump nor does Hayward. They are trying but truth be told, if you know the market, they will not be a player for some time. There are those on other forums that are attempting to invent their own "IntelliFlo" and I say good for them. I'm more concerned about going with what is commercially available specifically for our industry.

I've openly shared my opinions on a lot of stuff. Openly shared that some Pentair stuff is crap, some Hayward is and so is some Jandy.

On the subject of Authorized installer. Not sure where you are in the whole picture as you don't indicate it, but consider this. In my area, there are about 50 pool service companies who choose to be professional enough to join a trade organization. Who knows how many others just work in the wings on their own. Of those 50, I can verify personally that 3 actually took three days of their time when they could have been earning money and drove 100 miles to get "authorized". I'm one. We invested time to learn about something new. Is it the end all? No. I sell more two-speed pumps today than I do IntelliFlo. But, as you are aware, this topic is pretty important. If I do not know it, I'm not providing my customers what they want.

Of those other 47 companies I mentioned, what they have to offer the public is what they invest on their own time. At this point, there are far more bad IntelliFlo installations going in than good. The "authorized" guys have taken time to learn it and that learning curve is huge. We have invested a lot of hours and want to see it succeed. Authorized means nothing more than we are recognized by the company as being able to do more for the customer in service. We have contacts that others do not and at one point, we could offer more rebate $ than the non-authorized guy. In my area, when an issue with this pump arises, there are two of us that are known as go to guys to solve it. Issues that warranty stations can't even fix. That only comes from dedicating time to the product. I'm real big on a water treatment brand that is little known too. Am I biased? Sure. It works where other stuff does not. When you have a problem, would you rather have someone tickle your fancy with all kinds options that could cost you extra money or do you want straight talk with what we have found works better? Do you want a guy at $45/hour who is going to take 3 hours to do a job or a guy at $85/hour for 45 minutes who is on top of something. I'm going to recommend the higher priced guy as it is best for you. not because I like him. The pump is no different.

I also happen to be factory trained by Jandy. They have some great stuff and most of it is way too expensive. Some worth the extra cash, some not. There are also other issues I have with them. I am biased for any product in its own unique situation. Ask any guy who has worked on a lot of stuff. He will tell you the best product in each category. Right now, Pentair is leading in most areas so they get the most referrals.

How do you reconcile the issues most people here have with builders? I find it ridiculous that a builder will take 60K from an owner and then have the audacity to say he is going to put in a line of equipment simply because he is in bed with the builder. Yeah, he's doing a great service to the customer by giving them not always the best and then getting freebies on the back side for his exclusivity. That is the way it works with the building industry in most cases. i think builders will get a better reputation if they come to the owners and simply ask, "what do you want"? Unfortunately, they like to be biased in favor of quality in most cases.

Nice comeback repair guy! Sounds logical.

Just got my Intelliflo 3.2 and will be getting my Pentair Quad 60 DE filter today. If your willing to offer some suggestions on proper plumbing i surely would have open ears.Here is some of my criterior.

1....Would like to raise pump off of concrete pad surface on its own pedestal pad aproximately 12 - 18 inches tall so that when i'm programing i'm not groveling to the ground level on my knees! Pentair Tech stated no problem.

2....I did buy the Pentair # 261050 "Hiflo" BW valve. I'd like the features and want to give it a try.

3...I want to discard the old crappy heater that i will never use as the expense is much too high even with an efficient gas heater. I would like to at least plumb in taps for future solar heating as an option and not have to reconfigure all the plumbing.The existing configuration is a 2" copper line to the pump
1.5" from pump to BW valve (BW valve all 2" ports)
2" from BW to filter
2" from filter going back to BW valve
2" from BW vale splits to two 1.5" lines. One line directly to pool, and the other thru the pool heater. All the feed and return lines go directly thru the congrete pad and continue underground to the pool so i need to work with what i have.

4....Would like to set up plumbing for a salt water system for future installation or would consider doing it now if need be.

Some of my ? are....
1... Pentair tech stated i need a 12" straight run into the pump.This will be an issue for my existing pad and filter placement, etc. Is this really necesary? My current setup is directly from a 90 elbow into the pump and that pump has been ok from 1972 to today.

2...Is it feasable to set up 'taps' in the line for future solar and salt water system or would i need to plumb all at the same time?

3...Should i use all PVC or ABS fittings?

4...How can i post pics on this site to show my existing plumbing?

Thanks much.........Gman

The technology in the whisperflo (intelliflo) is awesome, and most likely will be installed on a mass scale. The sales of the RS controllers will most likely suffer due to the lack of interface (without extra cost) and the lack of the internal macro (direct control of speeds,etc.) that is available with the Intellitouch units. I'm sure Jandy will be hard pressed to come out with a pump that can at some point compete with the advanced design of the intelliflo. If not, some customers may demand an intelliflo pump, and the PB will be stuck with needing to "mesh" technologies...or never use the RS units again. Say "bye-bye" to the fat "Jandy" incentive program.

If PB would have built pools with the "properly sized" pumps/motors, and the "properly sized" plumbing, we most likely would not be in this variable speed market...again. Unfortunately, too many PB talked/sold horsepower to people because that is an easy sell and cheaper to build. Trying to sell larger (underground) plumbing techniques that are far more expensive than the $50 upgrade to a larger pump just doesn't make people say "give-me". More customers need to educate "themselves" on proper hydraulics, and understand the benefits of using larger than 2" or even 2.5" pipe. Low speed (rpm) pumps do not operate well with the typical sized pipes that is used by most PB. Yes, you will have a variable speed pump, but it will not be able to perform anywhere near its full potential, without a well designed low head system.

Well said. California is now on track to mandate 3" and above plumbing in a couple of years under title 24.

Boy, here I was feeling pretty good about specifying 2.5 inch pipes on the pool I built in '07, and I find that I should have gone all the way to 3". Oh well, at least it's better than the 2" pipe that every PB was planning to use.