Help with spa overflow and VS pump

15 years ago

We have a Pentair variable speed pump and we are trying to save energy by running it on a very low RPM and letting it run a little longer. However, when we cut it down below about 1600 RPM the spa overflow becomes just a trickle down the side of the rocks. I've closed the valve that controls the pool returns as much as I can but I can't shut it off completely because doing so would also shut off water to our polaris cleaner and the booster pump for it. Has anyone else experienced this problem? It seems we that we can't really get the benefit of the cost savings without either shutting off the spa returns entirely and letting the water just circulate through the pool (which would not be good for the spa water) or allowing the spa overflow to constantly run down the raised bond beam stacked stone, which I can't imagine would be good for it. Any suggestions?

Comments (9)

mas985
15 years ago
What you are experiencing is the effect of low flow rate. This is normal although perhaps not desireable. Spa spillovers are not really designed for low flow rates.

You have a few options.

1) Run at higher speeds while in spillover mode for 15-30 minutes per day and then run at lower speeds in pool mode for the rest of the time. The spa doesn't need much in the way of water replacement.

2) It may be possible to reduce the opening for the spillover such that it produces a bit more velocity over the edge so it will clear the rocks. However, if you should ever run at higher flow rates, there is a good chance the reduced opening will cause the spa to overflow.

Other than that, I can't think of anything else you can do.
Rack Etear
15 years ago
That is somewhat tricky, you would have to create a seperate spa bypass line that feeds both the spa return and the pool cleaner, then isolate that line while in spa mode.

It could be done with 2 tees a 3 way valve and a check valve on the outlet to the spa return.

This could also be automated if you desire.
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The booster pump is not a neccessity...it's just easier having one. lol The way some 1 pump spa systems are set up, the user will be switching a valve (by hand or remote), from heating spa returns over to spa jets when they want the jets on. If your spa is still heating when you want to use your jets, and that jet line is pulling in ambient cold air, you are going to significantly starve the heated water as it mixes with the air pulling in from the venturi of the spa jet line. While jets with outside air never help the heated water, that pump could still be heating normally with the jets on a seperate pump if you had 2 pumps. In my opinion, over the long haul, you save money in heating and save a little headache by not cooling your spa as much when your jets are on. Also, if you are having a valve switch from returns to jets, it can be a 10-20 second change if its a valve actuator...again, not a pain to wait, but with a booster pump waiting in the ready position, they are on the second you touch that button. Some people may chime in and say their's works fine as a one pump setup, and to each their own I guess...but in my opinion it is a legitimate luxury to have seperate pumps. Also, while talking about heating/cooling issues, PLUMB A HIGH RETURN INTO THE SPA AND A LOW RETRN INTO THE SPA. You will experience a significant gain in heat times when you inject hot water high and low, as you also eliminate stagnant cold water in the foot well. Yes you can adjust the flow of the Waterway jets. I say run a seperate line to the foot jet only because, for some strange hydraulic reason and water weight on top of the foot jet, a foot jet in the spa jet loop not get enough pressure. Running a seperate line to it may be a small expense, but the odds are eliminated that you wont have enough pressure. A blower is, again, a luxury. Ambient air being pulled in from an openline does not compare to force driven air from a blower...your call. It can be added if you're not happy with the amount of air. Have fun with it! Tyler
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You can take it any way you want it. I can tell you I know a lot about the pump just as well as a lot of other products. I did not know admitting to any area of expertise was a crime when people ask about it. Is that not why people come to places like this? I feel that 25 years of repair experience is sufficient to offer advice on most things if people ask. I don't work for Pentair so I have no agenda. If you are looking to get the most efficient performance out of a pool pump today, the fact remains that the IntelliFlo is it. Jandy does not have a comparable pump nor does Hayward. They are trying but truth be told, if you know the market, they will not be a player for some time. There are those on other forums that are attempting to invent their own "IntelliFlo" and I say good for them. I'm more concerned about going with what is commercially available specifically for our industry. I've openly shared my opinions on a lot of stuff. Openly shared that some Pentair stuff is crap, some Hayward is and so is some Jandy. On the subject of Authorized installer. Not sure where you are in the whole picture as you don't indicate it, but consider this. In my area, there are about 50 pool service companies who choose to be professional enough to join a trade organization. Who knows how many others just work in the wings on their own. Of those 50, I can verify personally that 3 actually took three days of their time when they could have been earning money and drove 100 miles to get "authorized". I'm one. We invested time to learn about something new. Is it the end all? No. I sell more two-speed pumps today than I do IntelliFlo. But, as you are aware, this topic is pretty important. If I do not know it, I'm not providing my customers what they want. Of those other 47 companies I mentioned, what they have to offer the public is what they invest on their own time. At this point, there are far more bad IntelliFlo installations going in than good. The "authorized" guys have taken time to learn it and that learning curve is huge. We have invested a lot of hours and want to see it succeed. Authorized means nothing more than we are recognized by the company as being able to do more for the customer in service. We have contacts that others do not and at one point, we could offer more rebate $ than the non-authorized guy. In my area, when an issue with this pump arises, there are two of us that are known as go to guys to solve it. Issues that warranty stations can't even fix. That only comes from dedicating time to the product. I'm real big on a water treatment brand that is little known too. Am I biased? Sure. It works where other stuff does not. When you have a problem, would you rather have someone tickle your fancy with all kinds options that could cost you extra money or do you want straight talk with what we have found works better? Do you want a guy at $45/hour who is going to take 3 hours to do a job or a guy at $85/hour for 45 minutes who is on top of something. I'm going to recommend the higher priced guy as it is best for you. not because I like him. The pump is no different. I also happen to be factory trained by Jandy. They have some great stuff and most of it is way too expensive. Some worth the extra cash, some not. There are also other issues I have with them. I am biased for any product in its own unique situation. Ask any guy who has worked on a lot of stuff. He will tell you the best product in each category. Right now, Pentair is leading in most areas so they get the most referrals. How do you reconcile the issues most people here have with builders? I find it ridiculous that a builder will take 60K from an owner and then have the audacity to say he is going to put in a line of equipment simply because he is in bed with the builder. Yeah, he's doing a great service to the customer by giving them not always the best and then getting freebies on the back side for his exclusivity. That is the way it works with the building industry in most cases. i think builders will get a better reputation if they come to the owners and simply ask, "what do you want"? Unfortunately, they like to be biased in favor of quality in most cases.
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ugadawgs
Original Author
15 years ago
Thanks for the replies. My pool builder, who recommended the Pentair VS pump because of the engergy savings, is coming out to take a look at it next week. I'll suggest the arrangement that you put forth Racket because I would ilke to be able to keep the spa circulating with the rest of the pool. If that doesn't work then I'll try mas985s approach and just circulate the spa a few hours a day (maybe while the filter pump and cleaner pump are running at full speed for the cleaner) and then isolate it to circulating the pool water for the remainder of the time.
woodberg
15 years ago
Do you have an in-floor cleaning system? The reason I ask is that I have my Intelliflo VS pump set to run normally at 1800 RPM which results in low flow over the spa spillway. However, when the cleaning pump (separate pump for the infloor system) runs, the Intelliflo pump increases to 2300 RPM's, which produces much better flow. We're using an EasyTouch system for automation.
huskyridor
15 years ago
With your setup I've found that the very low speeds prefer a spa at pool level, when the spa is raised you experience your dilemma. My suggestion is programming the computer to run the spa for an hour at the low speed in the morning, run the pool at low speed during the day, and then having the spa run again for an hour in the early evening. With this schedule you get maximum electrical savings and maximum sanitization for the spa.
I disagree with mas985 on simply running at a higher speed for a half hour once daily, this body of water (spa) is the most susceptible to UV degradation of chlorine and escalation of the water temperature. If you choose his method run at least 45 minutes at high speed twice daily.
I also disagree with racket too, to many avenues of return and bypasses will always seem to outfox the second fox. In other words, only the plumber and the original owner get it, and many times it's just the plumber because it outfoxed the pool owner too. Plus it costs for the prices of actuators and relay spaces. IMO your better served running the very low speed all the time and doing the spa, pool, spa daily cycle thing.

Just my .02

See ya,
Kelly
trhought
15 years ago
agadawgs-

I would definitely run at low speed most of the day (less than 1000 rpm if your pool size will allow) to get the benefit of your variable speed pump and not worry about the spa not spilling over.

High speed should only be used for your cleaner and for turning the spa water daily. I would recommend about 2 hours in the morning or 2 hours in the evening or as Kelly recommends, about an hour or so in both the morning and the evening.

One thing to consider is: When will you be home to enjoy the sound and sight of the spillover on the spa? If this is in the evening, I would recommend setting it to spill over in the evening or whatever time you will be home to enjoy it.

By all means, keep the speed below 1,700 rpm most of the day. This is where the variable speed pumps do better than 2 speed pumps and that is why you bought the variable speed to begin with....right?

You can do what racket recommends, but it requires a lot of babysitting for not much benefit in my opinion. I would not mess with the spa spillover opening to try to tune it. This will be a hassle.

Hope this helps!
heretoplease
15 years ago
On a raised spa I thought part of the reason for the spillover was to send debris on the surface, of the spa, to the pool's skimmer. Kelly's idea would accomplish that.

Kelly, would you mind commenting on "out with old, pictures are working"

Thanks.
huskyridor
15 years ago
heretoplease.

I'm sorry but I don't remember the post where I made this reply.
quote" out with old, pictures are working "quote

I'm pretty scatter brained from my workload and lifestyle and might not even remember the thread.LOL!!!

See ya,
Kelly
heretoplease
15 years ago
Sorry for jumping all over your post. You have a similar setup to what I am repairing. I wish to put in close to the same equipment but I am worried about the problems you are having.

Kelly, the link is my post(heretoplease) and I would like your opinion in addition to the great responses I have already recieved.

Again I am sorry for jumping in to your post. I belive your topic will answer many of my questions, but not all.

Thanks again.

Here is a link that might be useful: Out with old

Help with spa overflow and VS pump

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mas985

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Help with spa overflow and VS pump

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