I'm coming late to this party as I have somehow missed the first 21 layouts so excuse me if I make a suggestion that won't work. (that's probably about how many layouts I had). I would switch your prep zone with that of your kids/husband. Two reasons - it puts you closer to the fridge (if I had to walk that far it would get boring very quickly) and it puts you closer to chit-chatting with whoever is sitting at the peninsula. By moving you, you are closer to the middle of the action. Can you move the pull-out trash to the other area and put a trash under the clean-up sink then?
For my baking/cooking I would give up wall ovens for windows any day. But that's me.

I'm only responding to you subject line query (I also missed the first 21 layouts) but my answer is a resounding YES! I would give up just about anything for more windows...

Never had wall ovens and love the oven in my range, so maybe it is a case of not knowing what I am missing. I know some people MUST have their wall ovens--but if you're asking the question, clearly you aren't one of those people. (-8

Windows, windows, windows.

Windows.

Holy natural light Batman - go for the WINDOWS!!! If you need the extra coking space, perhaps a range with a double oven?

The design with all of those beautiful windows is too wonderful to pass up!

I see 16 ft of window. I have 6 1/2 and think that's nice and big ...I don't think you'll miss 30" or so for the oven. I would miss my wall ovens.

Yes, I would give up windows if I had enough others. To me, a wall oven is a big improvement! If I have anything to say about it, I will never go back to a range nor will I ever have an undercounter oven! I love having my wall oven higher than both of those...

I have a 6'10" length of windows and I think they're great, but I also think they're plenty...and I needed wall space for other things.

As I get older, I can only see a wall oven as a bigger and bigger advantage!

You've got so many windows! I would give up 30" of window for wall ovens if I had that many panes.

I would readily give up some of the windows in order to get wall ovens, if I didn't want to have a range. For me the big advantages of a range outweigh the desire for wall ovens. But if I broke the two cooking functions apart the only mitigation of that choice would be the ability to raise the ovens up. So wall ovens below counters, for me, is all the pain and no gain.

But, I also second the query about the very long distance (it's hard to tell from the screen image, but what is it - 17 to 19 feet?) between your prep and main cooking zone and the fridge. You will be endlessly schlepping from one area to ther other to gather stuff. Now, I'm not opposed so much to the distance (I live semi-happily with my fridge in another room right now) as much as the need to cross the other zone pathways. I would have less objection to the freezer being where it is since I go there less frequently during prep than to the fridge. Also, if you make no changes to where they are I would, at least, separate the units and have the doors open in opposite directions so that a small, centered, counter could do double duty as a more convenient landing zone for each appliance. Reaching across or around a door for the landing zone, to me, is a no-no if it can be avoided. If you have the space on the wall side of the freezer, just move it to the middle and you've solved it easily.

I know you've been through many iterations of your plan (and I have been through at least that many for my own, so I know how frustrating it can be). Sometimes it helps to just take a time out and and take a step back to reconsider the work flow functions/issues for your kitchen, without the decor issues, to re-ground yourself on what the main drivers are. Once you've figured out the functional stuff, then you can see how many of your wished-for, most urgent, decorative/ambiance/social or non-cooking issues will comfortably fit with the ideal kitchen arrangement. And then see how much more you need to nibble away from the kitchen-function ideal to accommodate the other, less important, dual functions of the space.

But, for me at least, first and foremeost a kitchen is space to make food preparation as convenient, simple and as enjoyable as possible. Everything else (no matter how desirable) must rate below that. Though I am perfectly willing to consider a compromise of kitchen function to get the additional, very high value, decorative and non-food prep desires included, I have to start with the optimal kitchen function clear in my mind.

I have followed your travails over the evolving plan and it seems to me that the non-kitchen function desires are now carrying as much planning weight as the purely functional cooking ones. For now, I'd ignore the dining room, big-party table size, fireplace seating and husband/kids space issues. Even the window spacing since you seem to have flexibility there. Work out, within the fixed boundary of the room, what would make the cooking function really rock, for you - and any other likely cooks. Then look at the other issues and see what can be comfortabley added in. And then stop tweaking/compromising when it begins to significantly unravel the optimal cooking function plan.

I have been reading here on the forum for years, and have in my mental kitchen-planning cosmology hundreds of clever, very attractive, uses of a kitchen space. But I found I had to keep reminding myself that there was no way I could replicate all of the great ideas and plans and still stay within my own constraints. (Indeed, in thinking about the best ideas, I realized that they rose to the level of outstanding most of the time in reaction to the unique constraints they faced.) I had to pick and choose, sometmes over and over again, among all the expectations that being exposed to such a rich cornucopia of possiblities had raised in my mind. If I had never been seen what's here on the KF, it would have been so much easier - but my plans would be so much poorer, too.

Take breath; go back and sort out the most convenient and effective kitchen function plan: Where's the food stored> where's the sink used in prep> where's the counter space used in prep> where's the equipment needed for prep and cooking stored> where's the cooking done> where's the plating done> where's place for the dishes and plates to come back to from the table> how are leftovers packed and re-stored> where are the dishes and pots cleaned> where are the dishes and pots stowed? Work those work flow details out and only afterward add in the other stuff. I found that approach made all the difference in my planning.

HTH,

L

as someone who doesn't have wall ovens and desperately is trying to make it work in her **almost** too tight for it space, no.

How long are you going to be staying at the house? My reason for wanting wall ovens is purely ergonomic. I have a bad back. and when it's acting up, bending over for my range HURTS. Don't even try to do it with something heavy.

Even if your back is fine now, if you think you are staying there long enough to age, please reconsider. (& my back hurts not really from age -35- but from an old injury.)

I did the opposite: gave up a smaller window so I could have wall ovens and will never go back. My wall ovens are so much more comfortable to use! I still have just as much natural light with my remaining 2 floor to ceiling windows.

Agree with the need to have your prep space closer to the fridge.

I really like the clean-up zone tucked away. How do you see the kid/husband zone operating? Snacks? Helping you prep? Sorry if I missed this before. I also prefer the layout with out the peninsula. For me, access to outside is very important (maybe cause I live in Fla.), and I would not like to walk around the peninsula. I also LOVE windows flanking a range/cooktop but also LOVE my wall ovens. I never had them before and now that I do, would not give them up. Mine are tucked away kind of, which I don't find a problem because a turn and step and there is landing space. That said, I wouldnt' mind the frig/freezer being over there if the cooktop were down further. I don't remember how large your family is but do you really need two DWs? I love windows and few uppers probably more then most but would forgo a little for the wall ovens. I don't have the program to draw so, starting at the short L, what about your cleanup zone as shown, trash, DW, glasses dishes as shown with window above, wall ovens, 6" spice pullout, 24" storage (toaster/bowls/whatever) window above these, 30-36" cooktop (I wasnt' sure what you had) trash/prep sink (18"-24" depending on the cooktop) another 30"-36" drawer (again depending on cooktop/prep sink), and then your stool area with window above the last two. You'd then have tons of window space with them flanking the hood which would become a focal point from the fireplace area. I hope all this made sense.

i'd lose the end window and put fridge/frzr there

sink under window where 'trash' is

oven at end wall where 'cleanup' is

put dh/kid zone where fridge/frzr is

Windows!!! I like ranges, so this would be an absolute no-brainer for me. And, (I'm sure some people will think I am nuts) but I don't think wall ovens are the most attractive of kitchen appliances...I rank them with microwaves on my "pretty scale!" I am all about the beauty of a space, so I'd never give up a gorgeous window for a wall oven.

I am in complete agreement with liriodendron.

You have no place to set the groceries that is close to frig in this plan. You have to walk a long distance back and forth to prep dinner. This is completely a nonfunctioning kitchen in my mental dinner prep.

The fireplace does not feel right to me. It may look gorgeous but it does not relate to anything else in that room. I don't understand why the fireplace sort of sticks out into the hallway and partly hangs into the kitchen.

The door at the bottom of the page swings into the kitchen and interferes with your use of that space.

For function and look of the kitchen, i liked your plan num 19 best. Additionally, when you add windows to your house, the windows have to look good from the outside. Many people put windows and they don't look right for the house. The windows scream out "bad remodel". You don't want to do that either.

I think you said that you have a colonal house. These houses really need to pay attention to the symmetrical window placement and the scale of the window size to give it a good balance.

Another thing: visually, I think the current clean up sink area needs to be a solid filled in space, ie frig/freez or wall oven with pantry.

Somehow in a large kitchen with lots of windows, you have the main work area, ie the clean up sink facing the blank wall. This is a functional waste of a great window space, IMHO. The room feels odd to waste sink space to the worst corner of the room!

Oh no! I had typed a long response, it seems to have been lost. I'll try to restate quickly:

I agree with kaismom and liriodendron. To add - this may be crazy, but what about have the kids/dh area where the fridge is in plan 22, perhaps add a bar fridge for juice, fruit, snacks and a toaster and simple cheap microwave there? Then you have total flexibility to design the work area to suit you.

Windows versus wall oven? I vote for windows, but it depends entirely on how you use your kitchen. I had a raised wall oven in my last kitchen, loved it - clearly this is the perfect kitchen ideal. Wanted one in my current kitchen, but it would have meant compromising my long run with no uppers or my clean up run. I wouldn't do it - so decided to put the wall oven under my cabs on the peninsula. Do I miss my raised wall oven? Not a bit, totally irrelevant. Why? Because I don't use it much. I have a small family, two adults, two kids. We don't often cook huge meals. I rarely bake. We use the speed oven constantly and it is big enough to prepare almost all our meals. So in my situation it is a no-brainer, of course I should put the oven under counter. Ask yourself those same questions: do you have a very large family? Are you an avid baker? Do you have back problems? Do you cook for a living? All are home all day all week cooking? If you answer yes to a few of these questions you might want it raised. Otherwise, go for windows - assuming as kaismom pointed out that you have good balance, a good view, no privacy issues, etc.

You asked about my prep sink. I use it to wash veggies, fruit, drain pasta, fill pots, fill water filter, etc. I do some prep to the left of the prep sink and to the right of the hob, but mostly I prep on the temporary table/island I have right across from the prep sink and hob. With the island I think I have a pretty ideal work area between the prep sink, hob, island and fridge. Traffic flows on the other side of the island, so I'm alone there when cooking, but there is plenty of room for others to wash dishes, prep elsewhere, get snacks on the other side of the island, etc.

I think it's totally a personal issue (as others have already suggested). For me personally, appeal of a wall of windows is so overwhelming that I'd let nothing come in the way!

I'd try to accommodate wall ovens someplace else. That span of windows is too cool to be disturbed - not to mention a clean unperturbed look that it lends.

SOCHI: thanks for your response.
I'm hoping I can fit my portable island on caster because I like having the island as a protective barrier from my guests while I cook.
scroll to bottom for layout#26

HOMEY_BIRD: I do love windows, especially with my great expansive private wooded backyard. But I prefer function over form.

thank you,
Amanda