What area of the country are you looking in?

I know here in NoVA, homes in my area and price range (800-850K) are almost without fail in GREAT shape. Gone are the days when almost anything that was put up on the MLS was under contract in a matter of days if not hours with multiple offers OVER list. Sellers today seem to realize that homes need to be close to 100% move in ready.

Yes, where are you looking? I just saw a $600K pitiful sad thing in Portland or. But if you can afford to put in the $200k in work, you can get over $800k for it in that neighborhood.

I love the movie. I don't know if some sellers are just in denial or what. It also could be they don't see what you see. Remember they are probably emotionally attached. Another possibility is that they simply cashed equity out when the values were rising. Now they have to get a higher amount to pay of their loan. Who knows for sure.

Houses don't last forever. Especially in recent decades, mass produced homes with inferior materials and workmanship coupled with the ease of securing financing by just about anyone, particularly owners who take no pride in their home and don't maintain it. It's really not uncommon, even in the atlanta area to find really expensive homes that are essentially tear downs. They are so expensive for the simple reason they may be in a potential commercial site or it may be in a desirable location and someone who can afford that will come in and tear it down and build something nicer in that spot.

But let me just say that if you're not finding anything but tear downs in that price range then you seriously need to move someplace where the cost of housing is more affordable because that's plain nuts. You'd have to be in heaven with your life and be earning a fortune with faultless job security to pay that kind of money.

I have seen these ovepriced homes that need work, but are priced as though they were new.

The ones that bother me the most are the 25 plus yo & everything is on its way out but still barely working...ie. the windows don't open well. The wood is worn out, the paint peeling, yet ppl are asking a lot of money.
Sometimes it would be easier if someone just broke the windows & made the house a "Handyman special"... becuz if the glass isn't broken the realtors call the windows "operable"....yeah, right!
I went to an open house Sunday & couldn't believe a price on a house- $520,000 on a 1930 sqft home, which was on a nice street but needed a lot of updating...electric heat, the exterior was wood ( I cannot imagine what a painter charges to paint the entire exterior every 3-4 years). The ceilings were popcorn. It needed painting. The kitchen & baths were 1980.
Sometimes I wonder how the realtors come up with those prices.
I just sold my home in the same town (almost 3300 sqft, 12 yo & in excellent shape) for $550,000!!!

I think it depends on whether the money pits have to compete against new construction. I live in the suburbs of NYC and nearly every $500,000 home will need tons of updating if not out right repairs. I've been in my 1979 house for 6 years now and I've done most of the updating and a lot of repairing, however, I still think this place is a money pit. I still need new windows, a new driveway and I want new siding! I always wonder how people let their houses fall into such states of disrepair.

I agree with quirkyquercus but I think its really sad. We've gone from not fixing tv's and toasters to building throw away houses? Its just so irresponsible.
My last house was a small bowling alley ranch built right after WWII in a starter development. Whoever that particular builder/developer was he did a great job. My little house felt very solid. The floor joists were great wood, basically everything structural was very good. No matter how bad the thunderstorm, how much snow, I always felt safe, grounded and the place never had anything blow off. That tiny place was quality and will be worth maintaining and fixing up for a long long time. Of course the lot was nice so I can see someone putting up some big cheapo replacement at some point but it'd be a travesty in my mind. I still mourn that place.
Mary
(The added on garage was maybe a bit of another story:)

I'm with you Pebbles. I just left one of these in a neighborhood nearby.

It was priced pretty low for the neighborhood, and it was a REO property, so I went to check it out. I shoulda known it was going to be bad when the listing realtor called me back to confirm my appointment and told me it was the biggest piece of junk she'd ever seen, and that it was 100k overpriced. (She handles 90% of our areas REOs).

She was right. It wasn't just cosmetic stuff; the house was literally coming apart. There was a large turret-style room that had MAJOR roof drainage problems, and the drywall and studs were completely rotted away. I saw it on a day after a snow storm, and all the snow was melting and dripping.....right INTO the house through the walls. In 2 ROOMS!

One section had the ceiling completely coming down, and the tile was all cracked and an addition was pulling away from the rest of the house.

The pool was a shambles; all the tile was chipping off, as well as HUGE chunks of the gunite.

Now, I'm a pretty handy gal, and we've done ALOT of work on our house, but this was beyond the realm of what could be handled easily. Yet they had it priced only slightly less than the comps. (The lender's appraisal people were the ones who told the realtor to price it....she was incredulous, and tried to tell them there would be NO way it would ever sell at that price.)

I've seen more and more of them too, Pebbles. It's funny that you mention the Money Pit, because DH and I watched it on our HBO on demand, and then went to see this house the next day. We were cracking up because we really *were* afraid of falling through the ceiling!

I always wonder how people let their houses fall into such states of disrepair.

I know how.

Because they don't have the time, energy, or knowledge to keep it in good shape. You've just done a lot of work on your hosue--was it a lot of work to do? Yes. Was it a lot of money? Yes. Did it take a lot of your time? Yes. A lot of your energy? Yes.

I've been *trying* to focus on our home for the last year, and it's hard! it's hard to find a contractor who'll do the work, hard to figure out what to do, hard to find time to even find a contractor, let alone do it ourselves. The disruption to my family is just not worth it. My kids won't ever do a tough 6th grade in school again, so if I mess up their homework time, etc., that impact won't go away. They'll get older, but they'll mess up their grades at a crucial point, screw up their attitude toward school.

It's easier to simply live with our damaged floors and the plaster damage to the ceiling. And the minute cracks in the tub surround.

And also, people don't often don't realize exactly what the damage is, or how important it is to fix it. They don't have time, they don't have knowledge, they're scared to DEATH of contractors so they don't reach out for help.

Perhaps even they think that "taking pride in your home" means "spending every Saturday fixing the place," and they don't want to do that. Then, when it's time to sell, they suddenly realize the impact their neglect will have. And it's too late to deal with it.

Ask me how I know these things.

Some of these high priced money pits are the result of poor, and I use that term loosely, construction materials, contractors, sub-contractors and building practices. The concept of craftmanship has disappeared in some home construction.

Some of these money pits are the result of people buying over their means. People are buying these homes with interest only mortages. They don't have the money to fix anything. They only plan on staying a short time and are waiting the next corporate move.

We purchased what many must have thought was a money pit in March 05. And we got it for about $200,000.00 below the market value. The house had been for sale at least 6 months in a hot market. We know the house had alot of traffic, realtor showed us, but it needed painting, both outside and inside. The appliances in the kitchen were shot, including a broken through cook surface on the stove. The furnace hadn't been serviced in three years! The hard wood floors needed refinishing. Some windows didn't work properly or at all. And absolutely no curb appeal! This house was 9 years old!

The good side was, and still is, the house's bones are excellent and the property and views unparalled!!!

So I have spent several weekends working on my house and enjoying every minute of it. It's looking great!!

But too many don't know and don't care. They also don't know the gravey train on real estate is over for a while.

Enjoy the journey.

eal51 in western CT

"..Because they don't have the time, energy, or knowledge to keep it in good shape.."
--------
Then there are those who THINK they have the knowledge to repair, remodel, and maintain a house. They take on projects way over their head and actually devalue their home! They do not know the difference between interior and exterior paint or what primer is for! Most of the time when homeowners take on a project, it looks like they hired a bunch of grade school kids, gave them a hammer, saw and nails and said: "Go to it!"

When I originally saw the master bedroom in the house I now own and the (bonus) additional 1/2 bath installed behind the sliding louvered CLOSET doors, I actually had to cover my mouth to conceal my shock when I saw the 1/2 bath was actually transplanted from a real Boeing 747! The owner was a pilot!

Later when I saw the previous owner, I didn't have the heart to tell him my sledgehammer got plenty of use.

Talley Sue: I hear you, I really do, but I can't help but think of the people we know who seem to have excuse after excuse for doing just about anything.

We moved in a year ago. We logged our home repairs (minor and major). There were 68 of them! We work full time with two kids and we still found time to do the things that needed to be done without sacrificing family or sanity. We have friends and relatives who say they have no time to fix things that need to be repaired (like leaks that have leaked for TWELVE YEARS), or peeling paint or broken fixtures etc. These are smart, capable people with the money to fix what's broken. I'm tired of the excuse that they "haven't gotten around to it." Poppycock! Sure this takes time and some money and effort, but so what! It's no excuse for not doing anything. After a while I think people get complacent, let too many things build up and give up when if they'd just gone slow and steady they'd be done by now! I'd rather they say: we don't care how it looks (which is the truth) instead of saying we haven't gotten to it yet.

Talley sue, I don't need to ask you how you know because my parents who live in florida have been trying to get work done from huricane damage from over a year and a half ago. They finally settled on a contractor to tile two bedrooms that the carpet was ruined from water seeping in the glass doors and it's taken them two weeks. My mom calls me 14 times a day just to complain about the guys that didn't show up or they did something wrong or this and that. They were told it was going to take 3 days. Did I say it was 2 bedrooms?

And NJBT is right. The worst kind of homeowner is the kind that thinks just cus their pappy was in counstruction that they can fix anything. They don't do the work properly. That's the primary reason I don't bother with resales in the price range I look in.

To tell you the truth, I'd rather someone sell me a house that needs repairs and has no improvements instead of try to repair it themselves and not try to enhance it with all those lovely imitation production mostly made out of pvc. All this cheap crap they use.

To tell you the truth, I'd rather someone sell me a house that needs repairs and has no improvements instead of try to repair it themselves and not try to enhance it with all those lovely imitation production mostly made out of pvc.

Boy, do I hear you. This new house (to us) has so many weird "improvements" and just bad construction that are becoming apparent to us after living here six months. The previous owners were the original owners so it's either shoddy construction (in 1972) or bad upkeep/improvement/repair. We're trying to tackle them one by one but we're not moving at a fast pace - maybe one major task a month or two.

I agree with Talley Sue. Sometimes, it's better to give your children and family the time and let the house slide. Priorities differ from family to family; person to person. Also, I don't even pretend to know what may be behind the lack of repairs (lack of spousal agreement? lack of funds? needy child?)

When we have a beautiful weekend day, we will go for the impromptu family trip to the zoo over ripping up the carpet in the spare bedroom. If people are judging me by my carpet, lack of fancy furniture, less-than-pristine lawn, well, so be it.

These are smart, capable people with the money to fix what's broken. I'm tired of the excuse that they "haven't gotten around to it."

Or, maybe they're scared to "get around to it."

Every SINGLE time I have tried to repair something in my house, it has ended up almost in worse condition. Certainly it is NOT "all fine" now.

Either it's worse (like the floor that peeled completely up 2 months after it was put down and the repair splintered worse than the original flaw, or like the bathroom where the guy grouted tiles he shouldn't have and I had to scrub the grout off the edges of the pillow tiles so they didn't look chipped, and now the grout is an uneven gray),

or they original flaw is gone, but the room STILL needs repair (like the new tub surround w/ the clear silicone caulk that's getting mildewed rapidly and the reglazed tub that's peeling away already).

Honestly, I'm scared to do something. I'll spend $3,000, and it'll look worse than it did before. Or, it'll look just as bad, but I'll have less money.

If I tried to do it myself, it'd look even worse. Or it would take forever. We scared ourselves off but good when we decided to strip away the peeling paint on the window frames and baseboard, and fix the cracks in the plaster ceiling, and paint, and make and install shelving, and it took us from October through Christmas Eve! That was with working for 2 hours every single weeknight, and every single weekend night. We didn't work on it during the day on the weekend, bcs our kids were 2 and 6, and we didn't want toxic, dangerous chemicals in use while they were running around and we were preoccupied.

Talley Sue. You sure "struck a note". I, too, have courageously tackled many projects in my first few years of home-ownership, only to spend countless hours and ending up frustrated,short-fused towards my wife and kids, and then having a worse mess to contend with. No better experience dealing with contractors who seldom showed up on time (or at all), did shoddy repairs, and drained me financially. We now do our best in keeping a clean, healthy home and hiring out what absolutely needs to be fixed. BUT, we will not compromise our family time, which is too little to begin with.

I'm looking at places that are not new construction. Granted the frank lloyd wright places everyone knows are falling a part because they were all disasters and he didn't architect anything properly.

What I'm seeing is that homes with current problems with water, huge electrical issues.

I bumped prices ranges and looking up to 1MM and seeing total disasters. It's really quite sad, great properties that have been destroyed by those that didn't have the means to fix them or the know how on how to hire the right person to fix the job.

Honestly it just makes me really sad. I've been walking out of houses and trying to figure out wehter they're even worth land value in some cases.

I concur with what Talley Sue said, but want to add something about the house we sold last July in the suburbs of NYC. There came a point in our very old "low-end" never-very-special house that we had to say, Enough. We had put enough money into the place. The land was worth 85 percent of the whole property's value, and at a certain point, it will be better for the thing to be torn down and the lot used for new construction. Thus, we weren't going to add that 2nd bathroom, or replace the siding, or redo the one bathroom. We had done a lot: replaced roof, later on un-sagged it, partially rehabbed the kitchen, finished the basement, added central air, added laminate flooring, replaced 27 windows and the patio sliders, added shed, got the walls back to tasteful plain from a horrid mishmash of cheap 4x8paneling, orange paint, grasscloth, gold&brown&orange plaid wallpaper to go with the ugly brown carpet,added shed etc, etc).
We figured it was somebody else's turn! For future owners taking over the house, it might well be "worth it" to them to pick up where we left off.
We did do a couple of low-cost improvements so as to get the place sold. (New vanity in that vintage bathroom, some new ceiling fixtures....)
Another point to note. With older people, sometimes they really can't see how bad things are.
Or they simply didn't think anything was wrong about the old kitchen or the fact that there's no AC at all.

I too, unknowingly, ended up purchasing a money pit. Thinking a 9 year old home would be fairly free of needing the large repairs (furnace and a/c, windows, roof and siding) we purchased it and had it inspected. All came back fine. We moved in 2 October's ago. First summer, a/c broke down. Guy comes out...it's fixable, but tells us that that a/c, along with the furnace are definately too small for the size of the house. Also says that if you look, every house in our neighborhood (houses range from 1600 sq ft to 2800 sq ft) have the exact same furnace. Also, they are a generic, low end furnace and a/c and will probably end up nickle and diming us to death. Second winter the furance goes on us twice...we fixed them both times. Also, the windows were leaking air like crazy. Thank god they were still covered under warranty, so we got new sashes, but we still ended up spending a few hundred dollars on getting odds and ends to make sure the windows fit snuggly in the frame. Now the roof is failing miserably and needs replacing. Half the electrical outlets don't work. We've become very close to most of our neighbors, who have the exact same problems as we do...several already have replaced windows, roofs, siding and furnaces. Everyone tells us that shoddy materials have been used. I'd be ashamed if I were the people working on these houses. Such shoddy workmenship...I guess at this point we're stuck, not planning on moving anytime in the near future and at least if/when we replace things, we'll know they're done properly. Just makes you sick. What happened to people taking pride in their work? Owners have been lining up at the builders house for years...when you go to talk to him, he'll usually say that you'll have to catch him another time because he's off the clock right now.

Every SINGLE time I have tried to repair something in my house, it has ended up almost in worse condition. Certainly it is NOT "all fine" now.

And I don't think you are alone. I live in a lower income neighborhood in the midwest, the previous owners decided to do several "home improvements" themselves and I've spent thousands of dollars correcting their improvements. Everything from pruning 40ft Oak tree's themselves, which resulted in the tree's becoming diseased and me having to remove them, to a jimmied garage door, that I've spent so much money on in the last few years it would have been cheaper to rip the entire thing out and replace it.

And the real problem is that a lot of these types of things aren't things that many home inspector's catch. Often they are hidden (although in my case my home inspector should have caught the garage door issues, but all I can do about that is live and learn), and you don't find out until you need to get a professional in to fix whatever is broken.

For 90% of most of the repairs in my home, I get a professional to do the work. Sometimes that means I have to wait to get some things fixed until I have the money saved up. But, at least with a professional there is usually some type of guarantee. But, I do think that many people believe that they can make major home improvements or major repairs themselves, and they don't realize that they'll be paying significantly more later.

Talley Sue, you struck a note with me too.

Our award-winning builder was so experienced he could do the job with his eyes closed, and sometimes we think he did. Our experience with contractors has been variable. Our success with things we've tackled ourselves has been, well, variable. But more affordable. It breaks my heart that my son's primary school years were accompanied by the saga of the leaking shower. And it wasn't due to a lack of effort on our part. Well, maybe it was for a while. But it's hard to keep going when you're just about out of money and the builder and a number of other "experts" tell you the leak has been fixed and don't worry about the smell, just use air freshener.

Excuse me if I pick on some these posts that are whinning!

Our house we sold two years ago had plenty of projects and repairs over 23 years we lived in it. And I had plenty of time for the family. I coached all three boys in little league and babe ruth baseball leagues. When they went on to high school, I became president of the band parents associations and made almost every band competition for 8 straight years for two sons. Never missed my wife's birthday or our anniversay. I spent over 10 years as a Scoutmaster and two of the boys are Eagle Scouts. And yes, both my wife and I held down full times jobs with some days being 14 hours long.

So don't tell me you don't have time to care of your family and your house. It takes planning and hard work to make it all go.

Owning a house means you will always have a project or four to do. What did you expect? Owning a house also means pride in ownership. Whether you like it or not, the condition of your house is a reflection of you! A house can be full of children, looked lived in and still be in great condition.

Two years ago we purchased what many of you would call a money pit. We saw an opportunity to get the house we wanted at a price well below the market value! The house was a mess. Some shoddy workmanship on sheetrock taping - I've redone almost every corner joint in the house. Ugly and poor landscaping. But it was mostly negelect because the people owned more than they could care for. In fact, they were bankrupt. Today, this seems to be the norm instead of the exception.

So to date, 39 projects completed and counting. Some were done by contractors, but most by me. All the contractor work was completed on time and for the price quoted. I do my research and both my wife and I interview each contractor we call for an estimate.

We have criteria we use to rate contractors:
1. Return calls promptly
2. Show up on time or call if delayed
3. Understand specifics of job we want done.
4. Receive an estimate within a resonable amount of time
5. Check references
6. Check quality of material being used
7. Check the Better Business Bureau

I have a handful of contractors I call for specific jobs such as electrical, landscaping, major carpentry, plumbing and septic and well. Just have to juggle their schedules versus ours.

A lesson for all who complain they can't get it done right. Do your research. Read up on material that pertains to your situation. Almost all the information you need is on the internet. And let's all take a lesson from our parents/ grandparents - learn to use some basic tools correctly and safely and you will be suprised what you can accomplish.

Enjoy the journey.

eal51 in western CT

Since we recently moved to a different state where we didn't know anyone, I joined AngiesList.com and have used that as a referral service for the work I needed done. It's not available in every area but it's worth checking out. The referrals are sent in by people who actually have used the companies - companies cannot pay to be included or pay to have good grades.

Also I used a handyman clearinghouse operation, in which the work is guaranteed and the handyman is judged by them to be of good temperament and ability.

We do some things around the house but for the bigger stuff we hire professionals. I think a lot of the tv shows make it look so easy to DIY everything but really, most of us need some help I'd say.

Emma1420 - and I say that if you've had good quality repairs done by professionals - it should be a selling point. I've never seen anyone advertise that though.
What do you all think? "No DIY repairs" "All work done by reputable contractors" something. I'll say it again, I go to the big box stores and see all the people hauling out pluming and electrical and tile and just wonder - "how many of those people really know what they're doing"? Or care?

marys1000, I'm not sure as I'd as far as advertising that you had a contractor do the repairs. Some people are very very handy and they can do as good of if not better than the professionals in some cases. But, I think those people are few and far between. I think the average Joe, ends up creating more expense in the long-run.

And while I probably wouldn't advertise that the repairs are done by professionals, I do think that it helps to have the receipts and show serious buyers that you've paid the appropriate people to do the work. And I think do think that it helps in a buyers market like this, if all other things are equal.

All I know is when I buy I'm going to start asking.
"Who finished the basement"? "Who put in the the plumbing for that second bathroom"? Gives an inspector something to focus on too.

This is depending on your state laws, but in most towns/ cities building permits are required for items such as finished basements, extra bathrooms & etc. These are to be inspected, certified the work meets building codes and a CO was issued. These are kept on file by the local town/ city clerk.

This is your protection and tells who did the work.

This should all be part of your lawyer's job in searching the property paperwork. Any building permits without CO's would show up. Any work done without a CO is always suspect!

All this information should also be known to the listing agent and be disclosed somewhere on the listing.

But if you insist on asking, have the seller produce the permit and CO.

Enjoy the journey.

eal51 in western CT

"These are to be inspected, certified the work meets building codes and a CO was issued. These are kept on file by the local town/ city clerk."

Most places don ot revoke COs on sale, and they have nothing to do with permits.
The most common CO setup is inspected at initial construction, CO issued, good forever unless the propoerty is condemned.
A few places (North East area are the ones I know about) revoke COs at sale and re-inspect looking for any non-permitted changes.
Most places issue a building permit and it remains open unitl a final inspection, but it has no effect on the CO.