If I were reselling, I would go laminate. IT's the cheapest option, and though it probably costs less than really good linoleum, it'd be seen as more upscale.

wood or tile, unless it is an entry level home, then laminate or linoleum is probably a good choice.

If it's an entry level or starter home, I think you'd be fine with linoleum. What are other homes in your price range and area doing in the way of flooring? laminate, wood or tile are all good choices if the area demands an upgraded flooring choice.

Linoleum and fake wood laminate are both cheap imitation products, all low end no matter what the cost.
Sorry that's the facts.

Put in real wood (Bamboo is amongst the least expensive) or use ceramic tile. For carpet, use berber only not in the kitchen or baths. Such luxury upgrades will cause potential buyers to overlook small nitpicks with the house and they will feel like they're getting a tremendous deal. Of all the things to skimp on in a house, two things; flooring and roofing should not be skimped on.

Sorry for the negative opinion but you asked for it. Sticks stacks no take backs.

vinyl or linoleum?

Linoleum is actually quite expensive and currently upscale...
the problem is many people don't know there's a difference between that and vinyl flooring.

I think the replies that you are getting demonstrate that your concern is valid. Even though linoleum is trendy now (and not cheap), most people don't think of it as upscale.

I think wood matching the other floors (if the other floors are wood) is the most neutral. Tile is fine, but personal taste starts to come into it more.

This does sort of confirm my fears: people think linoleum is cheap and low-end.

It really isn't, but it seems many folks confuse it with vinyl, or the old peely stuff in the basement that they need the guys in hazmat suits to get out. :)

Thanks for the input!

Quick question for QQ: what exactly is linoleum an imitation of?

(Incidentally, the kitchen I am contemplating remodeling NOW isn't the one I'm currently trying to sell.)

If you are in an old house (1935ish or earlier), I think you'd do better to go with flooring that is consistent with the age/era of the house. That's where hardwood or the real linoleum/marmoleum comes into play (no, not vinyl). "Real" linoleum is a natural product that is very earth friendly and, yes, not super cheap.

We're in a 1918 house and just installed Marmoleum in our entryway in a checkerboard pattern and our kitchen has oak floors. I love both. Personally, I like real hardwood on kitchen floors because it's easier on the legs/feet and I think it creates a warmer feeling in the room. I've been on laminate and don't like it because your shoes click when you walk. To me, vinyl is low end. Standing for any length of time on tile hurts my feet but I think it's easiest for clean up.

Since you'll probably be living in this place for a while, I'd go with something that you really like.

quirky, you are wrong here and you will have to "take back." Linoleum is not a cheap imitation product but an organic, highly-desirable flooring among people who really know about it. It's not the vinyl stuff on rolls at Home Depot.

The house we just bought has oak floors in most of the front rooms, including the kitchen, and that's a plus for me. What is the flooring like in the rest of your house?

I guess I would base the flooring on a few things: what do I like, what would look good with the rest of the house, am I in a market where people would recognize the linoleum for what it is, what do I want to pay.

I think a lot of people like ceramic tile in kitchens. I don't like vinyl. Our new house has vinyl in bathrooms and laundry room and we're replacing it all with tile.

Here is a link that might be useful: wikipedia talks linoleum

I won't by house with laminate on the floors in the kitchen, baths or laundry areas of a home. I've heard and seen too many horrors of sinks that leaked or pipes that burst and caused problems.

Flooring is definitely a personal choice item. We just bought a condo in Florida (second home) and the kitchen and dining room had recently been tiled with ceramic. Can't stand the stuff myself so had DH take it out (he needed a jack hammer!!) after the first month. Got tired of chair legs not sliding right on the grout lines and saying goodbye to anything breakable that happened to fall to the floor. No thanks. It's okay for bathrooms only, in my opinion. (Don't care for laminate or carpeting, either.)

Ceramic tile is the best choice; you will cover the most buyers for the price, and its pretty easy to install. Get one that looks like stone.

Gee, I don't think wood laminate flooring is so bad.We even asked our builder to put it in the entire downstairs portion of the new house rather than carpeting. Our new house is not entry-level, either. At some point I will put in hardwood floors, but that's a few years away.

We have a really nice, warm cherry laminate in the house we are selling currently, and the realtors always comment that their buyers really like the flooring.

Personally, I would go for less expensive/more bang for the buck. For resale anyway. If you go for hardwood and tile, you probably won't get what you paid for it. I think people like blank slates, places they can customize.

Personally, I'm saving the nice stuff for myself to enjoy - in the house I'm not planning on selling for years and years and years.

I have marmoleum in my kitchen and I can tell you it wasn't cheap! It's a totally natural, earth friendly product and it's marketed as upscale. I would love to live in a house that had marmoleum throughout. It is a joy to clean and feels so good on the tootsies.

"Linoleum and fake wood laminate are both cheap imitation products, all low end no matter what the cost.
Sorry that's the facts."

Not the facts, just quirky's opinion.

We did this a couple of months ago. Same answers.

Gloria

Here is a link that might be useful: flooring thread

I think too many people say linoleum when they really mean vinyl. Drives me nuts! They even do it on the home improvement shows.

I would give my eye teeth for linoleum. It's gorgeous, environmentally friendly and easy on the feet. My second choice would be tile. I have wood floors in my kitchen now and I'm just not that crazy about them. I cook all the time, and they seem to really take a beating and are not that easy to get clean.

However, it really just depends on how high-end your home is as to what makes the most sense to install.

I saw plenty of OK looking vinyl flooring in homes I toured back when I was buying, but I wasn't looking in the high-end market. I know people say that black-and-white checkerboard vinyl is a nightmare to keep clean, but it is a classic, especially if you have white cabinets.

I think Armstrong has some nice--even chic, maybe--vinyl floor products.

Here is a link that might be useful: Armstrong

I love my armstrong sheet vinyl.

Also, how long will you live there, and would you be willing to pull up the linoleum (or the sheet vinyl) if you thought that would help you sell it?

Our sheet vinyl got gouged and will need to be dealt with; I've considered replacing it w/ cork, since that sounds fancier, and was all the rage in kitchens recently.

>" the problem is many people don't know there's a difference between that and vinyl"

That's it! That's the reason.

Buying on emotion and sensation, not on facts or being "easy-to-clean"

Minet asked what's on my floors and I'm glad you asked cuz it's the perfect example. When you walk in it's real hardwoods in the foyer, dining room and hallway. A really fair amount of wood. The carpet is berber (or similar) and before I saw this carpet I had planned and budgeted to remove any carpet due to allergies/dust/eventual traffic wear and put down wood or tile but I fell in love with this carpet and can say I'd use it again. The rest of the house is that cheap vinyl crap which I hate but I still felt like it's a nice new construction and overlooked the vinyl because the rest of the floors are so nice.

Wikipedia wrote:
"it was considered to be an excellent, inexpensive material for high use areas."
"inexpensive material" being the operative word.
"high quality linoleum is still in use in many places (especially in non-allergenic homes, hospitals and health care facilities)."
Great. why have your home look like a luxurious retreat when you can make it look like a sick room.

What does it imitate?
When I was a kid we had linoleum in the kitchen it had a tile pattern on it and I've seen the same pattern a lot. Looks like it can also look like wood or tile.

When I was in college I needed a new car and went to look at these Nissan pickups advertised for lease. They were really base models and had manual crank windows but they had leather seats. I asked the salesman, why leather seats in such a base model. He said because when they're turned in and resold they get more for them because of the leather. So like I said, people aren't thinking about functionality or being easy to clean. They want to feel like they're getting a really nice house with upscale upgrades. Not a base model with no frills.

It may be my strong opinion that vinyl, linoleum and laminate fake wood are low end, despite the added practicality of the product but it is a fact that such upgrades will make a different impression on the buyer. That is the point I'm trying to make not debate why one is better than the other because real wood isn't better than pergo, it's just perceived differently.

For those who like linoleum or pergo, you can also make a dining room table to look like the real thing by laminating particle board with it. No one will be the wiser.

>" the problem is many people don't know there's a difference between that and vinyl"

Apparently you are one of these people? Real linoleum is not cheap or low-end. Point taken that some people may not know any better, though.

Incidentally, the full quote from Wikipedia is that linoleum was inexpensive and used in high-traffic areas from the 1860s through the 1950s. They weren't claiming it was cheap to install today.

Here's a link over to the pics of folks on the kitchen forum who used linoleum in their own kitchens. I guess folks can judge for themselves how much these kitchens look like hopsital sick rooms.

Here is a link that might be useful: Marmoleum/linoleum kitchens

Unfortunately, I remember the linoleum of old and how it was the cheapest thing you could put in a room. tile or wood was an upgrade. Times change but still the perception lingers that linoleum is cheap, despite it's new life. Many savvy home buyers will know that linoleum is now a pricey product, but many will still have the perception that linoleum is the same as sheet vinyl and is a cheap product. There's no doubt that laminate floors are not as expensive as real hardwoods, but they have their place. My daughter has a starter home, to put in hardwoods would be overkill for the home, her wood laminate floors were the right choice for the price range her home is in. If her home was the size and price range of my home, I would expect real hardwoods.

Thanks all. It's good to know the perceptions out there. I'm in a crunchy-granola part of the world (SF Bay area) so I should ask the locals and see if it's appreciated locally for its environmental friendliness.

I personally don't care for "imitation" materials (I forgot about the fake tile linoleums! They don't make those anymore.) and have a deep personal dislike for laminates though they seem to be perfect for some particular situations. When house shopping, I saw more than one that was listed as having hardwood floors! that were laminate. I was appalled.

My preference is wood, and the rest of the house is oak, but I was thinking of a different style for the kitchen this remodel around...

Anyway, I appreciate all the perspectives. Didn't mean to stir things up!

I'm planning to put cork or linoleum in our kitchen. Currently, we have tile (throughout the foyer, kitchen and hallway) and it's killing my feet - cold, hard, really nothing to like about it. Cork seems to be affordable and it's green. I don't know much about linoleum (is it as warm as cork?) but it's also a green product that may be appealing in SF.

Oh yes, cork! Our new house has mostly real oak floors but there are some rooms with carpet. I don't like any kind of carpet. I think when we pull up the carpet (not right away) we'll put down cork, since it might be too hard to match up new wood with the existing wood.

Cork is easy on the feet and the knees. Also easy to put down and very attractive.

I've heard some negative things about cork, although I love the look and feel of it.

Complaints I've heard--Water can seriously damage the flooring, making it swell and curl. The tiles are really thin so that regular traffic areas can wear out quickly. The lifespan for cork usually isn't that long, about 5-10 years. While the tiles are affordable, the labor to install can be a real bear.

However, I have heard you can extend the life by applying an extra coat of sealer and there are ways to refinish it too (although that probably doesn't work as well as hardwood floor refinishing since the tiles are so much thinner).

Is it really easy to install, minet? I heard you must have a perfectly level floor to do it. We were looking to use cork in our kitchen remodel a few years back but after I read some negative stuff online, I decided against it.

I think another benefit of cork is that it's really good for people with allergies--it naturally resists mildew and is hypoallergenic. It also has good sound-absorbing qualities.

Look at the houses that are for sale in the area.
Choose the material based on what is present.
Know you know why there are lookers during a sale.
You need to get a baseline on what is in the area to find out what improvements are 'correct' for the area and price.

And I hate ceramic tile. It beats your knees since the floor has about as much flex as concrete.
There is a reason there are all sorts of mats available for concrete floors.

Again, I'm not going to argue that my prefernce in flooring is any better only that unless it's wood or tile or premium carpet it's not going to demand a premium, I don't care what the salesman told you or what they're plugging on HGTV.

People keep saying " oh but it's starter house"... if the buyers don't know better or it's hot market then go ahead and put in the cheapest thing. Or instead you could do a little bit of luxury and the rest something else like my house and it will still be nicer than the other houses.
Sort of like my example. If I had a choice of the truck with leather seats vs the one with vinyl or cloth, I'd take the truck with leather even though I actually think the cloth is more comfortable. People want to feel like they've gotten somewhere in life and not living in some base model with all the cheapest possible furnishings. You'll pay more but you'll sell faster and get more.

This isn't a starter house, I haven't talked to any salesmen, and I don't watch HGTV. Anyway, good to see what perceptions are. No need to get snippy while presenting one's perceptions!

It's funny that tile would be considered "premium" as it can be one of the cheapest options out there (it can also be the most expensive). Cork is wonderful flooring, but I'm sure it wouldn't hold up to use in MY kitchen. I intentionally selected a home that needed a kitchen remodel so I wouldn't have to rip out someone else's idea of a nice kitchen. Hopefully I won't be selling anytime soon so this whole discussion isn't necessary, but just in case...I think I'll follow the excellent advice here and see what's in the other homes.

Thanks y'all!

fori,

First, take your time with your decision. You have alot of research to do. Check area homes by going to open houses and see what similar homes have on their kitchen floors.

Second, decide what you like and works for your particular situation. If you have two or three options, that actually a good thing.

Three, price out your options. If you can do it = great! If not, make sure you know how much the installation will cost and how long it will take.

Personally, I would go with tile professionally installed.

Remember, this is your kitchen. Make it they way you want it.

Enjoy the journey.

eal51 in western CT.

" If I had a choice of the truck with leather seats vs the one with vinyl or cloth, I'd take the truck with leather even though I actually think the cloth is more comfortable."

I don't understand this at all. Why not buy the product which best meets your needs?

Laminate is a very good product which meets the needs of a busy family--no matter what their income level. I've lived with wood floors most of my life. I'm done with all of that work or pussyfooting around on these newer floors. Most are not the quality you will find in a 50 yo ranch that was just standard at that time.

If wood floors is the latest status symbol, I guess I'll just wait it out. That's why people were so quick to cover them all in the '60s. They were ready for a change from the same old, same old. Now, the same old is carpet.

Gloria

fori, you're not stirring things up. We like to have something to argue about every couple of weeks. We just a "fluffy" group, but we're not bad.

Gloria

I am not sure that the "fake tile" and "fake wood" stuff was linoleum (a product made of cork, linseed oil and pigments). I though that was vinyl.

Cork floors come in a couple of different ways. There are stick-on (but not peel and stick, they need real installers) floor tiles made of cork. They are thin, maybe not even a quarter of an inch. These might curl and look bad after a while. Then there is plank cork. It is often a laminate of cork, MDF, and a thicker cork top. They are click-together planks 1' x 3' and can be glued at the seams, too. After installation, a coating of polyurethane is used to seal the floor. You are often told to seal it yearly with polyurethane. This floor will give as you walk and is the floor that cooks rave about for making their feet hurt less! I am not sure the 1' x 1' cork tiles that are glued down give that same effect.

Fori, I installed a beautiful floor in my kitchen reno four years ago this spring. It was a Nova Linoleum floor made like those cork click-together floors. It had a layer of cork at the bottom for insulation and flexing, MDF in the middle, and a layer of linoleum on the top. The 1' x 3' planks were laid with glue in the joints. There is a classic swirled linoleum pattern with shades of cream, maple color and blues. I never even did the polyurethane sealing. (There were conflicting instructions on this and the floor was imported from Switzerland, so I never got a straight answer from their US reps.) Even with three dogs weighing 68 lbs, 60 lbs, and 40 lbs the lino never showed a scratch. And there was a 90 degree turn they would make in that cartoon-dog spinning leg style as they raced to get to the back door.

The real estate agent who listed the house considered this fine (and expensive) floor a detriment just because it is "different." Unfortunately for us, few Michiganders shopping for an entry-level home read the Kitchen forum on That Home Site!

I did get around to putting a layer of water-based poly on the floor. It does shine now. When I was trying to sell the house FSBO, I would tell people that this was a real linoleum floor made of cork and had antibacterial and antistatic properties. I think of 70 some people through the house at open houses, 3 or 4 knew what I was talking about and were impressed. Sigh!

"Laminate is a very good product which meets the needs of a busy family--no matter what their income level."

I totally agree. Like I said about our new home previously, we requested the laminate from the builder, and this is not an entry-level house. It looks very nice and is durable enough to withstand two little boys running around the house. And, we paid extra for it, over the carpet. It is a great alternative to carpeting for people who don't want to deal with the hassle of hardwood floors.

Laminate wood floors are not "fake" wood, they are real wood. Maybe not hardwood, but they are not vinyl. They clean easily, feel nice under the feet, no refinishing or varnishing or sealing...

As far as laminate wood floors in kitchens and bathrooms: if you get the snap-together floors, use glue around the sink/dishwasher area. Also, in the entryways. That will prevent water damage.

Laminate wood floors are not "fake" wood, they are real wood. Maybe not hardwood, but they are not vinyl. They clean easily, feel nice under the feet, no refinishing or varnishing or sealing...

I think that you are talking about engineered wood floors, which do indeed have a top layer of real wood. Some engineered wood floors can have a thick enough layer of wood that they can acually be refinished. Most of the factory applied finishes are much more durable than site finished floors, so hopefully refinishing shouldn't be necessary. Laminate floors usually refer to floors that have a picture of real wood laminated to the flooring, so they are indeed "fake" wood floors.

Here is a link that might be useful: Wood vs. laminate info

I've had a cork tile floor in my kitchen for five years now. It still looka great -- no peeling, no lifting, mo swelling no curling, no visible wear showing. It was installed professionally. Each tile has a top layer of urethane.

Contrary to what some posters have said on here, cork floors are extremely durable -- they can last for 50 or more years. Cork is a wonderful natural and renewable material that is warm and resilient underfoot.

It comes in many patterns and colors and would be a great choice for someone who has wood floors elswhere in the house and wants something different for the kitchen.

Yall are missing the point.
Laminate is more practical even if you're living in a 16 bedroom castle... BUT it is still not considered high end by buyers and likewise it is even viewed as a cheaper floor covering for people to use when selling. And we wonder why people want to move into a 100 year old house.

quirky, you're putting out some real negative vibes here - pretty strong coming from someone with vinyl siding on his house! :-)

Sorry for the negative vibes. That's what happens when I get overloaded with work and don't think twice before posting.

The siding is another excellent example. I overlooked what cheap finishing there is because of the really nice touches. The best mid grade appliances and some high end plumbing and lighting fixtures and of course the flooring. The siding always bothered me and I had a choice to move into houses that were all brick or hardiplank siding but I chose to go with this one because of the nice touches. That's why I feel strongly about not finishing a house to the standards of a first time buyer but instead really make it a hell of a house and do a nice job on it and people will want it. My next house will not have vinyl siding though no matter what!

From "Ask DIY Home Improvement"
"Laminate resists denting, fading and scratching, and doesn't require refinishing. But it doesn't offer the same beauty as authentic wood flooring."
I'll put my laminate up against any authentic wood flooring as to beauty. That's why I selected it over authentic wood, besides other advantages.
The $1 p/sqft more for authentic wood installed was not an issue.

We had a high-grade laminate installed in our house in SoCal which cost as much as a lot of the engineered wood. It looked really good - it was a medium hickory design - and laminate's popular there because it's so easy to take care of. Because of the mild weather there people are running in and out of the house frequently.

Our new house has real oak floors, not engineered wood, laid down when built 15 yrs ago. But the bedrooms and a living area have carpet. I'll have the carpet taken out and something else put down probably within the year. I was going to try to match the wood but may go with cork instead. We're taking out the vinyl in the laundry room and bathrooms and putting down porcelain tile. The only part we're having done before move-in is the laundry room, so we can get the new w/d in, because the tile company's schedule is booked up.

We're planning on being in this house for several years so aren't worried about resale. We'll do what we want and like. The SoCal house we knew was only for a couple of years and we picked the expensive laminate because it looked so much nicer than the cheap stuff.

But now that we have the real wood, I like it more.

I know there are expensive laminates out there now BUT to me all laminates look cheap - even though I KNOW many are not.

I would do Tile in any wet area but that's just my opinion. I live in Florida and many homes here have tile in all the living and wet areas. We have a pool and tiled the entire first floor except the living room, formal dining room and guest suite. If I had to do it again, I would also tile the living room and formal dining room and then use gorgeous rugs. All the running around and back and forth from the pool has done awful things to the carpet in these areas. We are going to pull it up and either do matching tile or a really good quality wood laminate. I hate the plastic looking wood laminate, but won't do real wood due to the water issues.