Deep watering - in containers - would be until it is running out the bottom of the container. But are you sure they need it every day? That usually isn't needed if the plant is in a proper size container for its root ball. Do you check the moisture in the container soil deep down? Stick you finger in it. better yet is to water from the bottom - set the pots in large saucers and fill the saucers with water - let the plant suck up the amount it needs through the drainage holes. Since you have backed off on the water, other causes could be that the plants are root bound in their container and so need to be transplanted to larger containers. Or that the container soil has lost all its nutrients - they wash out with every watering - so what and how often have you fed them? Hope this helps. Dave

One more thing. We have hard water and have a water softener installed in the house. However, when I water the garden, we need to disable the softener. Not sure if this will impact our ability to consider an irrigation system. Have heard that minerals can build up and clog the tubing.

Hi, and thank you all for all your suggestions. Sorry it took me so long to respond. Had to switch gears and deal with getting our hardwood floors installed/finished. poolguynj I understand why you might say to go with an above ground pool but that's not really an option for us. We don't actually plan to move but in case we do, like we had in the past, I wanted to make sure that our choices are in line with what buyers might appreciate in terms of safety and maintenance and that we don't go overboard with expensive extras. At the same time we are in an upscale neighborhood so it cant look cheap. wkburt thanks for sharing your experience with the salt systems. I will definitely look into the ozone more. Which exact system do you have? poolweber your post was so helpful. I did what you said and drafted the depth with graph paper it definitely helped us visualize things. Thanks for reassuring us that the automatic cover is the way to go. Which brand do you have? How did choosing to go with an auto cover affect your other choices i.e. heater size, filter, cleaning system, sanitizing system etc? I am planning to meet with some PBs in the next week. Here are our thoughts as of now: Hoping we can afford gunite if not well have to do vinyl probably with graphex walls. 16x36 rectangle with water depth something like 3'-4" to 7-6" (volume I think between 20,000-27,000 gallons depending on exact bottom configuration) Automatic cover with hidden undertrack Deciding between: - Infinity 4000 (pool cover specialists, 7yr warranty on fabric, no problem using with Salt systems) - hydramatic (aquamatic, 7 yr warranty on fabric, hydraulic, net for water to drain out along with pump) - eclipse (coverstar) - Save-T 3 (big RED) (coverpools, 5 yr warranty on fabric) Large baja shelf/tanning ledge extending 4 or 5ft into the pool as first step with 6-7" of water. Not sure if we can have it slope from 1" to 6" (like a beach entry) would that work with a cover? Also not sure how we can configure it - whether to do it the whole width of the pool with steps after or whether we can have it in the middle with steps on either side. (That would mean that in the middle the depth would drop from 6" to 3'-4") Cartridge filter: pentair clean & clear plus 520 or jandy CL 580 Cleaner: still deciding between regular and robotic. Considering: The pool cleaner (by Poolvergnuegen), Polaris 280, Pentair Legend, Hayward Pool Vac Ultra vs. aquabot turbo, dolhin, tigershark, blue diamond Heater: As much as I would like to do a heat pump (read good reviews on Aquacal Super Quiet) not sure if there will much difference in savings with having the auto cover. Also what is the verdict on low nox? Looking at: Pentair MasterTemp 400 Jandy LXi 400 RayPak/Rheam/Ruud digital (Copper vs Cupro nickel vs. Asme -which one would you do?) Pump: Pentair intelliflo 4 speed VS vs. VS+SVRS vs. Variable speed VF Pentair 2speed whisperflo what hp? Sanitation still up in the air: Which actual ozone/other system do you recommend? Not sure if we should look at automation. Would love to have some water features. Not sure if there are any that are low cost/big impact i.e. Deck jets. Inexpensive ways to light the pool with led Lights? Which colored pool finishes to look at if we go with gunite that are relatively low cost and low maintenance (i.e no frequent acid washes)? Let me know your thoughts. Thanks!

bandit, Take ktdave's advice and get smart on basic pool chemistry at poolsolutions.com, poolforum.com, and troublefreepool.com. You'll find extensive information (as opposed to sales pitches) on the pool frog, nature2ilver systems there. That information combined with your experience should lead you to ditch the frog ASAP. Neil is right. The only practical way to get rid of CYA is to replace some of your water. You can run with higher CYA but you'll need to maintain higher levels of free chlorine to do so. That chart at this website will tell you how much for your CYA level: http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=365 In your case, you need to keep between 8 and 15 ppm free chlorine to ensure a sanitary pool that won't allow algae to grow. If you get algae or if you get a combined chlorine level above 0.5 ppm, you'll need to shock to 25 ppm to get rid of the problem. You need to find another chlorine source other than trichlor. As you now know, continuing to use that will continue to raise your CYA. Since your calcium is low you can use calcium hypochlorite. It will add calcium while it chlorinates. That's only a temporary solution though, as you'll eventually have enough calcium in your water. By the way, is your calcium really too low? What is it? Is your pool vinyl or gunite? If vinyl, pretty much any level of calcium from 0 to 500 ppm is OK. If gunite, you probably need to keep it between 200-400 ppm (though that can vary somewhat dependent on your pH and alkalinity levels). So, eventually, you're going to have to use a different chlorine source or resign yourself to periodically draining and replacing a large part of your water. While that's certainly an acceptable strategy, it's a bigger PITA than most of us want to deal with. The chlorine source with the least number of side effects is sodium hypochlorite. That's also known as liquid chlorine or bleach. Plain, unscented laundry bleach (5.25% or 6% sodium hypochlorite) is usually the cheapest source though you may be able to find 12.5% liquid chlorine at a pool store or Home Depot or Lowes somewhat cheaper. To give you some idea how to dose with bleach, a gallon of 6% will add 6 ppm chlorine in 10,000 gallons of water. Get a good test kit so you don't have to rely on the pool store that's already given you suspect advice. The best have an FAS-DPD chlorine test. The Taylor K-2006 is one as is the one sold through the troublefreepool.com website (that one is based on the Taylor K-2006). Any way you go on a test kit, test your own water frequently (pH and chlorine daily; CYA, calcium, and alkalinity monthly or so) if you want to avoid problems. Best of luck.