I'm not one of the experts around here but it seems like you've gathered a lot of information already. I would also do gunite if possible. I just redid my pool and did flagstone coping, dark grey subway tile and medium gray plaster. I would research the plaster color very carefully. Mine yields a dark reflecting pool, sort of like a lagoon.....not the light blue. Your post has a lot of good information. It might help though to summarize the questions at the end. Good Luck!

I don't see need for cover - not hard to keep kids out of yard...current cleaners will handle leaves etc. a lot of $$ for not enough benefit imho.

go with gunite, no matter what

go with salt, you'll like it

ncounty and tfons1219 thank you both for your suggestions. I would love to go with gunite just not sure if we can afford the prices in this area. I'm going to need to get some more estimates I guess. I was just hoping to get a bit more spefific with our wish list of features before I talk to more pool builders.

ncounty you are probably right about me needing to summarize my questions. :) I didn't realize how long my post was.

tfons regarding the auto cover we are just afraid we'll regret not doing after it's all said and done. If anyone else was considering in and ended up not doing it, let me know if you are happy with your decision.

Some of our questions from my post above:
Whats the absolute minimum depth for informal diving without a diving board?

How can we calculate the required pool length to allow for a gradual slope from shallow to deep end?

Would you recommend a heat pump for us vs. a heater (if only wanting to use a pool when its over 65 degrees but like the water extra warm)? Approximately how long does it take to recoup the upfront cost when taking into account the monthly cost?

What other time saving/energy saving/environmentally friendly features do you recommend/are you glad you spend the money on?

If you have an auto cover was it worth the money? How much did you spend on it did you go through cover company or a PB to get it?

What alternative sanitizing system do have/recommend using with an automatic cover?

Other recommendations given our location/situation?

Thanks in advance to everyone for your recommendations. This forum is such an invaluable source of information.

This sounds like a case for an on ground pool might be made if the DH can be persuaded to skip the deep end. You still swim in it so it cools you off, everyone can stand, games played... For a lot less money.

You said you may not be there in 3-7 years. Thats a large delta in costs in an local where it doesn't make a big difference in home value. You almost never get your money back in appreciated value anyway. Most people I know that put in pools in their yard aren't planning to move.

It's easy to secure from small kids and pets.

Now you can afford that 76 jet Hot Tub with the tv, stereo and gazebo.

Scott

I would not get a "salt pool". If you aren't aware a salt system is essentially a chlorine factory. If you want to minimize the amount of chlorine in your pool you will NOT accomplish that with a salt system. In fact you will do more maintenance on your pool because 1) every few weeks you will have to take the salt cell off and soak it in a large bucket of muriatic acid and water (50/50) mix to get the mineral deposits off of it - otherwise it loses its ability to produce chlorine thereby having to work longer which shortens the cell life, 2) you will have to frequently add lots of muriatic acid to your pool water because salt systems continually drive the pH of the water higher, 3) you will have to add stabilizer to the water because the chlorine produced by a salt system doesn't provide any, 4) if you are lucky you might get 4 to 5 years life out of the salt cell and then you will spend around $400 to $600 to replace it, 5) salt is very corrosive and you might see damage to the deck surface around the pool.

I tried 2 different salt systems on my pool and finally took it off, drained the pool to get rid of the salt, and put on an Ozone system which is about 1000 times more effective as an oxidizer then chlorine is. I also use a little floating chlorine tablet dispenser (which looks like a duck) to maintain a small chlorine residual in the water when the equipment is not running. I rarely have to do anything to balance my water chemistry anymore - no more cleaning the salt cell, no more constant additions of muriatic acid, no more expensive salt cells to replace, etc. All for less money. And my water feels as good or maybe better then when I had a salt system.

wburt,

Yours must have been an extreme case, probably due to your water conditions. The polarity changing feature of many units works quite well to clean the cell and won't let calcifications accumulate much in normal operating conditions.

I am glad you found a system that works for you. How long have you had your system? How long do you run your pump?

Scott

Scott,

I don't believe mine is an extreme case at all. I hear the same story from many people in Arizona and from other areas of the country. I was diligent in monitoring my water chemistry and I was constantly having to add muriatic acid to keep the pH at an acceptable level. Salt Chlorine Generators make the water more alkaline which drives up the pH. Every 1 ppm of chlorine generated increases the pH by .1 about every 4 days. Assuming a chlorine generator is producing about 1 ppm per day in the summer that results in a pH rise of 1.0 in about 10 days. And I was adding muriatic acid weekly to combat this. Both units I tried had "self cleaning/polarity reversing" cells. I thought maybe my mineral hardness in the water was contributing to this so when I switched units after my cell died I drained the pool completely and refilled it to start fresh and I experienced the same problems.

People in Texas have reported the erosion of decorative limestone around their pools and the salt, which is very highly corrosive, is eating it away. I understand that other areas of the country have experienced similar problems.

Research on this also indicates that some municipalities will no longer allow the connection of new or existing pools to the sewer system if they have a salt system. One well publicized case was Santa Clarita county in Los Angeles. A violation there is a misdemeanor punishable up to a $1,000 fine and/or imprisonment up to 30 days. Here is the link: http://www.lacsd.org/info/industrial_waste/chloride_in_santa_clarita/saltwaterpool.asp

Their are as many as eighty wetlands now reporting high salinity which endangers the environment. I don't mean to get in a save the environment mode but that is what the data shows.

For me at the end of the day I found myself doing more maintenance then ever before because of the salt system - exactly what I was trying to minimize. I have had my ozone system for 4 years and will probably need to change the UV lamp this summer for about $80 dollars - far less then the cost of replacing a chlorine generating cell which is at least $400 I estimate. And the Ozone reduces the chlorine demand by at least 70% or more so I go through chlorine tablets very slowly. It is undoubtedly a much better solution for me; less maintenance, less up front cost and less long term cost by far.

The MOST helpful advice I received on this website when we were building our pool was to use graph paper. Drawing the pool bottom on graph paper (each square equals one foot) allowed us to visualize the ratio of deep/shallow water as well as how steep the slope would be. This prevented us from making some very big mistakes. Keep in mind that after you hit a certain depth, you will be swimming rather than walking, so the slope can be much steeper at the deeper end than at the shallow end. We installed an automatic pool cover that cost about $8000 for a 14 X 28 pool. We bought it directly from the pool cover company because the pool builder's quote was higher. I don't remember exactly how much the difference was, but in the end we didn't save as much as we thought we would because we had to pay more for some of the electrical work that would have been included by the pool builder, and there were some minor incidents of the two companies blaming each other for things that would not have happened if we had been working with only one company. Having said all that, I will say that in my opinion, the automatic cover is an absolute necessity for anyone contemplating a pool. We do not have little children, but without the cover I would worry about a neighbor's child climbing over our fence. Every summer there are tragic stories of drownings that could have been prevented. I love knowing that our pool is covered and locked except when we are outside using it. In addition, the cover keeps out leaves and dirt -- our pool is much cleaner because of it. We have a vinyl pool that is much smaller and less expensive than many of the pools on this site, but I would not have built any pool without a cover. We have a heater and we keep the water at about 79-80 degrees -- warmer for night swimming, It definitely makes the experience more enjoyable. I would think carefully about whether the whole project is worthwhile if you are planning to move soon. Either way, good luck!

Hi, and thank you all for all your suggestions. Sorry it took me so long to respond. Had to switch gears and deal with getting our hardwood floors installed/finished.

poolguynj I understand why you might say to go with an above ground pool but that's not really an option for us.

We don't actually plan to move but in case we do, like we had in the past, I wanted to make sure that our choices are in line with what buyers might appreciate in terms of safety and maintenance and that we don't go overboard with expensive extras. At the same time we are in an upscale neighborhood so it cant look cheap.

wkburt thanks for sharing your experience with the salt systems. I will definitely look into the ozone more. Which exact system do you have?

poolweber your post was so helpful. I did what you said and drafted the depth with graph paper it definitely helped us visualize things. Thanks for reassuring us that the automatic cover is the way to go.

Which brand do you have? How did choosing to go with an auto cover affect your other choices i.e. heater size, filter, cleaning system, sanitizing system etc?

I am planning to meet with some PBs in the next week. Here are our thoughts as of now:

Hoping we can afford gunite if not well have to do vinyl probably with graphex walls.

16x36 rectangle with water depth something like 3'-4" to 7-6" (volume I think between 20,000-27,000 gallons depending on exact bottom configuration)

Automatic cover with hidden undertrack
Deciding between:
- Infinity 4000 (pool cover specialists, 7yr warranty on fabric, no problem using with Salt systems)
- hydramatic (aquamatic, 7 yr warranty on fabric, hydraulic, net for water to drain out along with pump)
- eclipse (coverstar)
- Save-T 3 (big RED) (coverpools, 5 yr warranty on fabric)

Large baja shelf/tanning ledge extending 4 or 5ft into the pool as first step with 6-7" of water. Not sure if we can have it slope from 1" to 6" (like a beach entry) would that work with a cover? Also not sure how we can configure it - whether to do it the whole width of the pool with steps after or whether we can have it in the middle with steps on either side. (That would mean that in the middle the depth would drop from 6" to 3'-4")

Cartridge filter: pentair clean & clear plus 520 or jandy CL 580

Cleaner: still deciding between regular and robotic. Considering:
The pool cleaner (by Poolvergnuegen), Polaris 280, Pentair Legend, Hayward Pool Vac Ultra
vs. aquabot turbo, dolhin, tigershark, blue diamond

Heater: As much as I would like to do a heat pump (read good reviews on Aquacal Super Quiet) not sure if there will much difference in savings with having the auto cover. Also what is the verdict on low nox?
Looking at:
Pentair MasterTemp 400
Jandy LXi 400
RayPak/Rheam/Ruud digital (Copper vs Cupro nickel vs. Asme -which one would you do?)

Pump: Pentair intelliflo 4 speed VS vs. VS+SVRS vs. Variable speed VF
Pentair 2speed whisperflo what hp?

Sanitation still up in the air: Which actual ozone/other system do you recommend?

Not sure if we should look at automation.
Would love to have some water features. Not sure if there are any that are low cost/big impact i.e. Deck jets.
Inexpensive ways to light the pool with led Lights?
Which colored pool finishes to look at if we go with gunite that are relatively low cost and low maintenance (i.e no frequent acid washes)?

Let me know your thoughts.
Thanks!

Oops... meant to say 18 x 36 rectangle.
I know I am asking a lot of questions. Would it be best to break down my questions into multiple posts? This pool project is just such a big investment I want to make sure we make the best choices possible.

Thanks again for any input!