I like the Pentair unit because it provides more feedback. I also like the idea of the circuit board inside the cell (stays cooler because water is flowing through the cell - versus being in a metal box on the wall). However, I believe they all work the same way and have similar warranties.

I like my goldline controlls and cell but when I call for service the repair people universally hold Hayward products in low regard (might be due to what they get paid under warranty to fix it, on kickbacks or on quality...I can't pin it down.)

If I had it to do over again, I'd go a different brand.

Best,

Ralph

We universally hold it in low regard because it is. Every manufacturer has a reward program so that has nothing to do with not using Hayward.

Well, thanks for the diplomatic response repair guy. I suspect the Hayward stuff isn't as good as the other major brands, but it's got to be at least considered serviceable. A low tech energy hog system, but does the job, no? Come on, throw me a bone here, I got it really cheap and it's worked (more or less) for over 3 years now.

Seriously, you have to at least admit the PS-8 goldline board is average?

It's almost like comparing current auto makers...everything is pretty good, but there are the exceptional cars out there light-years ahead of the rest.

Anyway, if I had to do it again, I'd go for a different brand assuming cost is close.

Ralph

I feel the same about most Hayward products. Except two.
The Navigator is one of the better cleaners on the market, and they aquired the goldline company, who has been making salt systems for a long time, and is one of the best on the market. Basically they have not messed it up yet. With their new sense and dispense it is perfect.

I liked my goldline and I think they were really the first to "popularize" a model that honestly worked. However, I don't know about them once they were purchased by Hayward.

Goldline was incredible. Before Hayward took it. It has gotten progressively worse.

Here's my deal. You can but a Navigator real cheap online right now from one of the largest online sellers. The kicker is, the product is 3 years old. You have to love a company that sells stuff to people like that.

Most companies that focus on customer happiness will not sell the Navigator. Builders love them as they get a cheap product that will last long enough until they are out of the picture. Typically 18-24 months. Ask any owner of one how much they have pumped into the thing at 3+ years. Too much for me. I'm not in the business of selling parts for sweeps. Therefore, I sell a product that is extremely reliable and is not a parts hog. Ask a store owner and they will say the Navigator is great. They sell a ton of parts.

That's both sides of the fence.

Willwee,

The issue is the ability to service. Hayward always needs service.

My PB swears by Pentair except the SWG, he uses the Goldline. He likes the control being seperate from the cell, there are 2 different schools of thought on this. I wanted the intellichlor but am going with the goldline since it is what he is used to and dont want an "I told you so" from the guy that will warranty it.

"It's almost like comparing current auto makers...everything is pretty good, but there are the exceptional cars out there light-years ahead of the rest. "

Good point. Although I dont believe that there are any cars out there that are light years ahead of the rest. They all have their issues, about equal warranties, similar engineering etc. A ford car today will last just as long as a honda anymore. And last time I drove by the Honda dealer (the car that everyone thinks will last forever) they have a large repair center just like the rest.

Oh, dear, how confusing!

I'm in Alabama and I called a local pool service tech, asked him which one he would install and he said Hayward was the best! Maybe he said that so he could get more calls but he said they were easier to repair than others...

I've had 4 pool contractors come out..

One uses Hayward, one uses Jandy, one uses Sta-right (also a Pentair product???) and now I've forgot what the other one uses...any comparison on those 3?

Thanks!
Tara

I think a lot of those decisions on who to use are centered around what you get from your local rep and how the company treats you in the area of local warranty representation. For me in the area north of San Diego county they both suck in those areas. When I need something done by Pentair, it is the relationships I've made within their company who deliver for me, not the local sales rep. The local warranty station is beloved by those in Pentair but despised by most of the customers and local pool techs. We collectively have decided to not use him until Pentair wakes up and sees it from our side. They have refused to do it at this point. Unfortunately, the 5% of the complaints on him they reference make the majority of the purchasing in this area. As for Hayward, we get nothing from them in terms of support and warranty quality. So, we don't use it.

Each area is unique. It's Lowes vs Home Depot. Lowes has an easier parking lot to get in and out of here so I go there. It can be that simple in some people's minds.

Find a company that you respect and seems like they will stand behind whatever they sell. Realize they will not be there long so choose a company that stands behind the product. You will get differing opinions on that.

I've really found my Hayward service under warranty to be fine...but the fact I've used it for a pump motor, electronic valve and new cell just 3 years in doesn't give me the warm fuzzies.

Also, the Hayard pumps really suck down the juice. I've got the Northstar 2hp for the main (runs entire pool/spa filter and also up two tall stories for solar)and a 1hp Northstar for the sheer decents. Electric bill went WAYYYYY up. Now w/ the replacement Emerson 2hp in the Northstar, I've already seen a dip in monthly energy use.

Our neighbor across the street has all Sta-Rite equipment and they like it. Looks pretty undersized in my eyes but they don't have 4' of head for the spa nor are they pumping to solar.

Regardless, I'd say having a fully automatic system is what keeps me loving the pool.

Good luck w/ your choice.

Ralph

I've got a Hayward navigator and Goldine SWG-- been very happy with both of them, particularly the Navigator-- cleans up everything. And the SWG keeps the water perfectly chlorinated but it feels nice, too...

Most people will not doubt the daily work these products provide. It's the average cost to maintain and the reliability. In the car business, they call it initial satisfaction level. The level is high for Hayward but they drop off real fast and hard at 18 months to 3 years. Compare that to a RayPak heater that has a very average initial satisfaction level but in the long run, when compared to other heaters, blows them out of the water on satisfaction. Same goes for a WhisperFlo pump. It will outlast any pump in the market.

I've had a Goldline unit for about 2 years. I have no automation (sigh).

I've not had any problems with either the cell or the control box since final installation. The control box is mounted on a shaded wall, so that helps keep the temperature down. At the time of last cell inspection for possible cleaning, the cell plates looked pristine.

No complaints here.

Most LUXURY pool builders are opting to NO LONGER install salt chlorine generators, due to all of the related problems. Since it's a trickle down world.... mainstream builder won't get the message for years!

a) salt increases the conductivity of the water turning it into a giant battery
b) metals in the water can & will electroplate themselves onto other metals (SS railings, SS light rings, inside of heaters, even onto the plaster in the pattern of the reinforcing steel)
c) the salts & splashed pool water are attacking the concrete pool decks & stone work
d) components within the pool corrode faster (copper heat exchangers, light fixtures, metal fittings, etc.)

Salt chlorine generators do not make the "water softer." They MAKE liquid chlorine (sodium hypochlorite) in the plumbing, by separating the salts (sodium chloride).

The pH climes radically (the sodium hypochlorite has a pH around 13!), and not checked every few days can lead to severe staining (metal precipitation). Though a little sodium hydroxide is created, it is not of sufficient quantities to off set the extreme pH of the chlorine.

Most ULTRA-HIGH END builders & designers are installing commercial ORP/pH sensors/controllers and are injecting liquid chlorine & CO2 to buffer the pH.

The term "soft water" means that the water is LACKING in calcium. This is BAD for a pool, because calcium levels below 200ppm will cause the plaster to soften. The water seeks a balance around 200, and will suck it out of the plaster, cement, grout, or anywhere else it can find it.

People with "salt water pools" ARE NOT swimming in "soft water."

"The pH climes radically (the sodium hypochlorite has a pH around 13!), and not checked every few days can lead to severe staining (metal precipitation). Though a little sodium hydroxide is created, it is not of sufficient quantities to off set the extreme pH of the chlorine."

ahh....I think you need to go back to chemistry 101 my friend. Hypochlorite is bleach. Sodium Hydroxide (NaOH) is a very very strong alkali....a 1 molar solution is about pH=14. It is not going to offset or buffer anything! You might know it as Lye. The CO2 that will react with water and form H2CO3 (an acid) which dissociates into H+ and HCO3- is what brings the pH down in these ORP-CO2 systems. It acts as the acid versus having to add HCL to keep the pH down.

Quote: "Most LUXURY pool builders are opting to NO LONGER install salt chlorine generators"

"Brrrrzzzztttt!" Incorrect, but thanks for playing! Next contestant?

I wanted to know if anyone can tell me if your chlorine levels and Ph levels have to be right before you switch over from a chlorine pool to salt water pool ? I already have my Generator and am ready and excited about switching but just needed to know if the levels need to be correct before adding the salt.

Besides the OP not mentioning it, is there a reason that the AutoPilot is not mentioned?

The pH climes radically (the sodium hypochlorite has a pH around 13!), and not checked every few days can lead to severe staining (metal precipitation). Though a little sodium hydroxide is created, it is not of sufficient quantities to off set the extreme pH of the chlorine.
Sodium hypochlorite is below pH 11...it is a weak base and its not stable in water. However, its irrelevant, because the SWCG actually produces Cl2, chlorine gas then reacts with water. This reaction produces Hypochlorous acid and HCl. NaOH is also produced on the cathode at about a net concentration of one molar. So yes, its a bit more basic than bleach because of this but its not "radical". You just add a bit of acid every two weeks.

Theres very little metal in a pool....why because the hypochlorite ion which is what we get when we add chlorine is very corrosive on its own and in the same concentration as salt would do much more harm to metal and your equipment. So basically pool equipment manufacturers have had to contend with this issue long before salt came along.

What it will do is rust away any "iron" or metal in your stone work, coping or tile. Most stone contains some sort of metals, and think about it, we get all of our metals from the stone in the earth. Once the iron/metal rusts away in the stone, the stone cracks at that point. The way to deal with this is use "hard" stone and seal the stone so it will not be absorbant. Or, go with concrete or brick or man made products which would not be affected at all.