I remember you helped with your neighbor's lawn but was thinking you did yours, too. Just off the top, I don't think the grass wants to go into winter with a blanket of anything. Sounds like a decision you have to make. Thick grass definitely helps to crowd weeds. I didn't have a weed problem except along the edges here and there, mainly along the curb. Probably only got 5 or 6 crabgrass plants in summer but never put down pre-m. I pulled them to prevent a problem the following year. You know I hail kbg and don't mean this to another shameless plug, but I think you can expect yearly overseeding with a fescue/ryegrass lawn, even one that has some kbg in it. That might not be so terrible, depending mostly on how brutal winters and summers turn out to be. Per your late greenup question as it relates to what you are considering, just be willing to swap something - that one thing I think is worth the personal preference. I'm sure you've read me say what a delight it was for me. I had a common Kenblue lawn that was really nice and I loved it. I just wanted it darker so overseeded with Award and Boutique. Kenblue greened up as usual in spring - not particularly late or early - but after a few weeks, I began to notice it get darker, and darker.......and darker every day. The first think I did every morning was run to the window or door, not the bathroom LOL, to take my first morning's peek. The difference was noticeable each day and went on for about two weeks or more. Besides that, it isn't as though you will have brown grass until late in spring. It only means it will be later in spring when the grass reaches its true color. You can deal with that, I'm sure.

Just a headsup in case you didn't see my "Purchase seeds now" post from last month, Moonlight is in short supply. I linked to the site I read that on, but John would be better able to tell us for sure. Wanted to let you know in case you run into something like that. Yep, I'll call them on Monday. As for you last question, I am going to be real honest with you..... 1. I have no idea because I would be a little concerned about seeds that are not labeled "sod quality." But like I said, I'll talk to him on Monday. If nothing else, he can read the labels to me. 2. No one can really estimate a percentage because it would also depend on your soil. You've already had one or two weed issues, so you know it is not fallowed ground. 3. My biggest concern is the possibility of any content of Poa annua. That also becomes an issue with seeds not labeled "sod quality." I feel better with that labeling even though there is never any guarantee. A couple or three years ago, it seemed almost every bluegrass, fescue, and ryegrass harvest was laden with Poa. Not only harvests but people's lawns all over the country (transition zone and northern areas) were suddenly infested despite them never having a problem before. Weather was the culprit that year and beyond anyone's control. However, I'd hate for you to end up with a batch of that seed. Mainly anything else that might sprout are winter annuals and can be controlled by some means, but nothing like the battle that Poa would be. Soooo, I think what that means is you'd purchase from Pawnee Buttes since they offer sod quality or pay a little more from Roselawn Agriseeds and ensure weed-free seeds. And really, I expect everyone is going to raise prices this year the closer it gets to the seeding season. Summit Seed, Seedland, and SeedSuperStore (who are always outrageous) already did. No one knows better than I do what an issue money can be but if at all possible, try to purchase sooner.

I'm certainly not trying to pick a fight, and I regret that my posting may have come across that way. Bestlawn has done a better job than I ever could have in advancing the homeowners' knowledge of modern cultivars. Ironic, perhaps, since that was the exact reason I joined this forum several years ago--to spread the word that there are lots of great grasses out there that only the professionals know about--and if we homeowners knew about them and badgered the suppliers en masse maybe we could buy and enjoy them also. All of the cultivars Bestlawn and I have mentioned are excellent, and you would do well with any of them. I guess my point was that if you look critically at the NTEP data, taking into account the LSD values and the cultural practices employed at the particular sites, it can be pretty hard to find meaningful differences between any of the good, modern varieties. This becomes even more evident if you go and look at the NTEP plots in person. I annually visit those at Michigan State University, and now fully understand why the Michigan rankings are so flat. About the only KBG cultivar you can pick out at a distance is Kenblue. The differences between all the newer, better cultivars are tiny. This is even more so with tall fescue. Only Kentucky 31 stands out. The rest are all dense and dark green. So, if Blue Velvet sounds good to you (it IS an excellent cultivar) and you have a good source for it, by all means sow it and enjoy it. Kingfisher has done pretty well in the NTEP, but there are several other America-types that have a long and lusty track record against things like shade and powdery mildew. I haven't seen Bewitched, at least not by that name--maybe it was an experimental in the previous NTEP. In summary, you could probably put together dozens of KBG blends that would perform just as well as the Magnificent Three, but I feel confident that that blend will work great anywhere KBG is adapted. Plus, we have some folks on this board who have the lawns to show it. Happy glyphosating and sowing, A.J.

I'm inclined to think kbg isn't for you, and the tree will be competition for any groundcover really. There doesn't appear to be raised roots, so that's in your favor. I think you'd be better off with a tall fescue. KBG just isn't a shade species. The Magnificent 3 will tolerate light or filtered shade, but not a tree like that I don't expect, and I can't really say it's an area you want to transition from kbg to fescue. Start a new post addressed to A.J. for tall fescue recommendation. He's shown us great varieties that rival kbg in appearance. Show him your picture(s) and ask what he thinks would be best for you. Other than that, the only thing I can think is to surround the tree with a shade garden. No big deal really. You'll just have less lawn area, but at least you will be able to plant the kbg you want, while the tree will be surrounded by groundcovers that are more likely to tolerate it. Some of them are attractive and colorful. Let me know what you decide. Whatever grass you plant, mow it higher in the shade - one half to an inch higher, and give it less nitrogen than you provide to the rest of the lawn. That is based on recommended rates for your grass type. You're going to want to overseed on a regular basis because like I said, the tree is going to compete for moisture and nutrients. The thing is, the tree will always win.