Sounds reasonable (compared to CA pricing). Can you post a picture of the drawing?

The pricing is cheap by CA standards.
I suppose it's because of the Caretaker system that the builder wants to use a 2 HP pump on the pool filter, but I would urge you to consider something more energy efficient, like a variable-speed Intelliflo, or at least a dual-speed Whisperflo. You don't have to be a Greenie to be concerned about energy efficiency, especially living in PHX. Simply being a tightwad like me will give you reason to spend a few hundred more on a much more energy efficient pump. You'll make up the difference in a very short time with lower electric bills.

t-square - I agree that the Intelliflo is a good idea, the pool builder does not. We have agreed to disagree on this. Unfortunately, in Az we don't get the rebate from the power company that those in Ca do, so the pump will cost about $1200 more than the pump that was speced out.

I am trying to be as energy efficient as possible, where it still make sense. I would love to do solar, but I think I am going to hold off for another few years and see how the technology improves.

I actually have another day before signing due to scheduling.

Anyone have thoughts about the pipe size?

How far away from the pool is the equipment pad? I would probably go with bigger pipe diameter and try to avoid a lot of 90's If you go with the Intelliflo you might think about the Pentair Intellitouch controller. I actually have the PS-8 and 2 Intelliflos. 1 runs independant and the other runs through an Intellicom to be controlled by my PS-8. As to your gas line, it is not the last 30' that you would need 2", how far from the meter?

Personally (and professionally too), I would use 3" pipe with such a high-powered pump. I'm guessing you're going to want about 120 gpm to run the Caretaker system. That's way too much for 2" pipe to handle. The outdated pool industry standard, which is followed by nobody, calls for 8 fps water velocity on the suction side and 10 fps on the return side. On the finer side of pool design & construction, we like to keep it at 6 fps.
With 2" pipe, 120 gpm gives you 11.95 fps. 3" pipe = 5.42 fps @ 120 gpm.
Given the larger pipe sizes I use, I'm not really a "90 counter" and I typically frown upon those armchair quarterbacks who use 2" pipe and then worry about counting 90s.
Check it: a 2" 90 is the hydraulic equivalent of adding 8.6 feet of straight pipe. A 3" 90 equals 11.1 feet of pipe.
Here's the more significant difference: at 120 gpm, the friction loss per 100' of 2" pipe is 21.8 ft., or 9.4 psi.
With 3" pipe at 120 gpm, the friction loss is only 3.19 ft., or 1.38 psi.
See why I'm not hung up on counting 90s? Those that use 2" pipe and fret over 90s are failing to see the forest through the trees, IMHO.
It's simple math really, but hard for some to understand the real life application.
If the Intelliflo is out of the question, perhaps you might consider a simple 2 HP 2-speed Whisperflo. High speed will operate the Caretaker, and low speed will provide sufficient flow to fire the heater while using the spa. Either way, all pools are beautiful. It's just that these finer points can make the difference between aggravation and enjoyment.
German Engineering!

msm859 -

The equipment pad is very close, as the amount of usable space on the lot is very small. The closest wall for the equipment is 6 feet from the pool and the furthest wall enclosing the pool equipment is about 13 ft from the pool.

t-square - Thanks for the information about pipe size, honestly, that I the part I am fuzziest on I think.

If we do go with the intelliflo, which is probably what we will do, we would also go with the intellitouch. It seems it will pay for itself, as from what I understand we are going to need to run the pump for 4-8 hours a day during peak time (hot weather in the middle of the day), not including the time for cleaning the pool with the in-floor overnight.

How about the 1.5" on the return side, is there any problem with this?

Thanks so much for your input. It is very much appreciated!

Jennifer

oops, first I feel I must apologize to msm859 following my rant about "90-counters". I meant no disrespect to your advice. To be honest, I only very briefly skimmed through your post and didn't even catch the part where you mentioned 90s, so I wasn't trying to be rude on that point. You recommended going with larger pipe anyways and my personal gripe is with those who still use 2" pipe and then boast about avoiding 90s. Respek!

Note to others: Somebody could just as easily be thinking I'm a hack for using big pipe and not worrying about 90s. We all draw the line somewhere.

Jennifer: The 1.5" returns are typically branched off a 2" main return line. They go to 1.5" where they penetrate through the wall because the eyeballs (trim pieces) are that size. I'm guessing that is what your builder is intending, but I could be wrong. In a perfect world, or if you were a Kennedy or DuPont, then that main return line would be the same size as the suction, so 3" is my armchair recommendation. If it was built with 3" suction and 2.5" return, I would not really frown on that either, but I wouldn't do it myself. Well actually, that's not true because I am doing exactly that on a current project, but that's because of some other fuzzy logic and it's not that my return is downsized, but rather my suction is upsized.
If your pool was built with 2.5" suction and 2.5 or 2" return, then that would probably be better than average, but you'd be amazed at how much more you'll love your pool with bigger pipes. I mentioned to somebody here before that one of the first pools I built on my own, I used a 1/2 HP filter pump on 2" pipes and I was a little disappointed that the pump did not seem to be any quieter than any of the hundreds of 3/4 HP pumps I've seen in service. So last year, I did a project of several small fountains like you might see at a ritzy shopping center (these things are more painful than any pool I've ever built), each on its own filtration system. I used 2.5" suctions and returns, reducing down as appropriate for the returns and fountain nozzles. The pipe runs were all well over 100' in each direction, two of them approaching 160', and those pumps were so quiet I was stunned and amazed.

If you do go with the Intelliflo, then the Intellitouch will certainly be a nice complement to that, but you might also consider the EasyTouch. In a nutshell, the EasyTouch is a value-engineered, toned-down version of the Intellitouch. I'm not familiar enough with it to know for sure that it controls the Intelliflo in the same manner, but it's definitely worth looking into. If your builder doesn't know either, he can contact his local Pentair rep. who will be happy to lend a hand.
Something else I just noticed is that they've spec'd a 1 or 2 HP Whisperflo for the two laminar jets. This equation is way out of balance because those laminars only need 10 gpm each. Even with a 1/2 HP Whisperflow, you will wind up sending the majority of its output through the bypass line, directly back into the pool. The 1/2 HP will give you 2 or 3 times the flow you need for the laminars. Laminars are delicate and fussy, it's imperative not to give them too much flow or they can be damaged. At the least, they won't work correctly with too much flow, so there is zero advantage to oversizing the pump which runs them. Additionally, they should receive filtered water, so I would put a small cartridge filter on that pump (Clean & Clear 100 or 150 is fine for the task and not much $$). You also want to have the flow to each laminar adjustable with gate valves or globe valves because they are much more suited to very fine adjustment. Most builders would use a 3-way valve or two ball valves, which can be difficult to adjust in the fine increments needed for laminars.
The laminars are proposed to be lit, but I do not see a fiberoptic illuminator listed in the specs. They are available with or without color, so you'll want to be sure and clarify that with your builder.
hmmmm...a couple other things off the top of my head; you might consider going with two pool lights, along the long wall on the house side so they aren't shining into the house. This is a basic thing that many others here can vouch for. Regarding the auto-fill, I may be splitting hairs at this point but I don't really like the Pentair/Letro autofill. They have a tendency to cause hammer knocking in your house plumbing because of the way they're designed. I much prefer the new autofill from Pour-A-Lid or my former favorite, MP Industries' Auto-Lev. The prices are roughly the same and these two are much easier to install, service, and live with than the Pentair/Letro version.

Well this was fun. If I can help you spend any more of your hard-earned money, don't hesitate to ask. hahaha

t-square apology accepted. I just finished having my pool built and I had to go around with some esoteric issues with my builder. I have 3 2" suction lines on my pool with a 2 1/2" return. He kept on telling me I had 6" of suction but I know 2+2+2 does not equal 6. On my spa I have 2 2" suctions and a single 2 1/2" return that splits into 2 1 1/2" lines and 6 jets. Interestingly with my Intelliflo's it takes over twice as much energy at any given gpm to run the spa (it also goes through the heater). I have long runs and with the finish plumbing I layed it out from pump to filter to use 1 90 and 2 45's their design was to use 4 90's. If I had to do it over again I would have increased the pipe sizes and used sweeps coming into the pad.

T-square, I am one that used 2" pipe with no 90's. This was suggested by one, maybe two (can't remember) forum members. It was right after my pool was plumbed that Racket posted back to me to use 3" rather than worry about the 90's. It was too late, but the cost was very minimal so I'm not too upset about it.

I posted another request recently that got zero feedback. Maybe you could help me out on it. If possible, I am willing to change my existing pump out and also need a recommendation for the water feature pump. Also, does distance from the pump dictate pump size?

Jennifer, sorry for the hijack. BTW, I'm in Phoenix too :)

tsquare -

thanks for all of the info. I did end up signing a revised version of the contract. He did stick with 2" pipe, but said that he has it coming from both the bottom of the pool and the skimmer, 2" pipe from each, which is supposed to be equivilent to about a 3" pipe total? I had my GC there as well, and he seemed happy with the answer. Honestly, I don't completely understand it all, but am hoping it will be ok.

Also, as far as the laminar jets, there will actually be one more custom made water feature in between the laminar jets, which is why the pump size is bigger. In addition, he said he put something in there so that any excess pressure (?) has a way out, as the laminars need just the right amount. I may have just really hacked up how he said that, but hopefully you get the jist.

Oh, and I did get him to list the fiber optics, although I think we are going to go with a new colored LED that is just about to come out from fiberstars, which should cost less, use less energy, be easier to install and hopefully look just as good or better!

Thanks again for your input!!

Houseful - No worries about asking a question. I just wish I could help you out in some way.

If you are looking for a PB who might help change your existing equiment, feel free to email me, I might have someone for you. My email is my user name plus @aol.com.

It is getting hot here in Phoenix, I hope your pool will be ready for you to swim in soon!!

Oh, just a bit more info. I signed the contract on Tuesday. On Wednesday they came out and moved 4 Sagauro cactus to their new homes (finally - they have been moved twice already!). On Thursday the PB came out and laid out the pool. On Friday they dug the pool. This week is supposed to have plumbing on Monday, steel on Tuesday, electrical on Wednesday or Thursday, inspection on Friday and then gunnite the following Monday. If so, it keeps us right on schedule, so let's hope he can get it done!

Thanks again to everyone for their help and thoughts!

Jennifer

Jennifer, my pool is already finished and we've been swimming since right after Easter. It's wonderful!! We did owner/builder so we could get the pool finished and work on the rest of the yard slowly without being forced to make so many decisions at once.

You mention a PB that will help me change my equipment. Are you recommending him because he's good or because he takes used equipment? I was thinking of just calling my plumber or even just ordering a new one online and changing ourselves. You can certainly send his info my way and I'll talk to him. I'll email you.

I look forward to seeing your pool! We have three saguaros that we worked around, but in hindsight we should have probably moved at least the one closest to the pool. Do you know the company that did that for you?

We have 2" pipes on all the suction lines. I assumed that was standard. If it is equivalent to 3", why are people now recommending the 3"? Hopefully, the experts will chime in here.

Have fun and please post pics as soon as you can :)