Depending on the style of sheer and the flow you wish to see, you may need as much as 200 gpm or as little as 90 gpm. Anytime I exceed 6 ft of total sheer I recommend a second pump. The price may be a bit high but there are conditions that can warrant higher pricing. Plumbing runs, pipe sizing, automated controls and additional actuators are just a few possibilities.
Here in Ca the average price of a 3' sheer is $750 plus plumbing and pump ($1100.00 to $1500.00).
I really like my three rain sheers on a variable speed pump. Low speed can run them w/o a problem.
When remodeling I almost always use a 2-speed pump for sheers.

Ken

Here is a link that might be useful: Sheer Rain

You're probably paying a premium because you've already shot gunite. It's a lot tougher to add the extra plumbing at this point. The plumber's work is done by the time gunite is shot, so now the PB has to bring them back out and rework some construction that is already in place.

A general rule of construction is that change orders are always going to cost more than if you got the same work into the contract up front because: 1) they know they've got the contract (little ability to negotiate) and 2)change orders create additional hardships (the later in the project the more hardships they cause).

Be careful about doing the work yourself, you could compromise your PB's warranty. You may decide it's worth the risk in the end, but it's a consideration.

Thanks for the quick responses! This forum is awesome. Wish I would have found it sooner.

Hadn't thought about the warranty issue tresw. I think I might talk to my PB about the addition of a booster pump. A year ago when we had initially talked to him about the design, the designer included a .75hp booster pump as well as the main pump. As for a hardship for the PB, we just shot gunite on Friday and he told me that adding an additional water features would not be an issue. He has already included an additional suction pipe for just this reason. The pool is currently rough plumbed (stubbed out) so there is hardly any additional work involved. I get the feeling the PB couldn't be bothered, which surprises me given his reputation/quality. I wouldn't have minded paying a little more for a change order, but $3400 seems excessive to me given that we are just in the beginning stages of the build.

Rebel,

Just out of curiosity...your PB is going to have 2 returns now dedicated to the water features...what size lines are these? Also, what type of pump are you using on the sheer decents? Looks like your GPM requirement is roughly 120 gpm depending on the type of sheer decents.

Scott

120 gpm for 2 3" sheer descents will launch the water 2' personally I like about 9-12" projection which just so happen to be 9-12gpm per foot.

3400 for 2 3 foot sheer descents is a ripoff if he's placing them on the pool filter pump with a 3-way valve.
It should be around 1000 to 1500 depending on your builders markup. Adding an additional pump and switch or computer upgrade should raise this price to 1800 to 2500.

I'd suggest asking him if you can buy them off the web and pay the men on the side in cash to install them because you feel that this way should come in around 1000 max and then offer him 1500 to handle it on your behalf.

I'd take that offer without a moments hesitation because it's a very fair markup on my actual incurred cost of adding them after gunite.

See ya,
Kelly

"It should be around 1000 to 1500 depending on your builders markup. Adding an additional pump and switch or computer upgrade should raise this price to 1800 to 2500."

Is this also including raised wall?

I wish we could do things that cheap in Seattle.

quote" Is this also including raised wall? "quote

No, in her first sentence she stated that they simply want to add a descent to either side of the existing higher middle wall currently set up for a 4' descent.

The price of 2 descents, labor to cut/chisel out the gunite recess, and the labor to install is minimal.

It sounds like the builder isn't interested in doing it so he quoted it high to discourage her from the change.

See ya,
Kelly

either that, or he has the same labor woes that we do. Either too expensive or to stupid.

Thank you all for your responses. The plumbers were out today and plumbed the pool. To alleviate any confusion, I have included a pic to help explain (husky is abs. right, btw).

Basically what I want to do, is add (2) 3' sheers on either side of the exisiting 4' sheer. I have two skimmers, a double main drain, and an additional 2" suction line that the PB added to expand/add water features in the future. I am not sure of the type of pump, but I do know that it is a 1.5hp. I will have a Goldline SWG as well as the Goldline control panel for automation controls.

I have researched the price of sheers as well as booster pumps. I can purchase the materials (sheers/ .75 hp pump) for approx. $1200-1500. I do realize that this does not include actuators for the automation system. When the PB quoted $3400 to upgrade to a larger pump/add the sheers, I knew something wasn't right.

I have not yet been able to talk to the PB, but to add another wrinkle to the fold, I have found out from the building inspectors that the PB ignored a stop work order to not shoot gunite (after he had told me that the stop work order had been satisfied). I'm hoping to talk to the PB tonight/tomorrow to discuss the sheer issues as well as use his blatant disregard of rules/lying as leverage to pursue the booster pump option at a more reasonable price.

-Jim

Whatever you do, DON'T place your descents on a 3/4 hp pump.
You WILL NOT be happy with them.
you'd be more well served using the 3/4 to circulate your pool and the 1 1/2 to run your descents if you have no spa.
I don't know if you have the Aqualogic 4 or 8 so here's how I'd do it if I were doing it at my house.
Aqualogic 4- place the descent pump on it's own relay and tie the pool light/spa light on the same switch leg relay (if you have a spa)
Aqualogic 8- place the descent pump on it's own relay.
With either application I'd suggest a 2hp pump to run all 3 at the same time, and not using an actuator to rob water from the pool return. Don't use any pump for all 3 with less than a 1 1/2hp motor.
since your already gunited you'll have to cut, chip, and chisel the recess and run your pipes up the back and into a notch cut through the top of the beam behind your new recess.
As for your building inspections office, don't use this to upset your builder. I have, on several occasions, gotten the go ahead from the inspector to proceed to gunite in spite of a red tag on a particular item. He'll come back and reinspect after gunite. Note, my area is an area of occasional sever weather and a sometimes very wet soil.
They understand that there might not be a day after tomorrow pool due to it caving in from water weight in the soil and potential rain.
He might have the same agreement with his particular inspector at the moment. But, if he didn't, shame on him for moving forward when he was told not to.

See ya,
Kelly

I added the sheer decents as a last minute on my owner built (w/ consultant) pool. I have almost exactly what you described- 2ea 24" on the sides and a 36" at the top. I run these on a dedicated 2hp pump (with tie in to the water slide and it easily manages the slide and the descents running with arc of ~ 2ft from the edge. I'd also do what my consultant reccomended, run each descent on it's own dedicated line, each with a valve to balance each descent so the flow can be balanced. I'll try to put a picture of all running up here later.

Looks like I goofed on the size. Looks to be 24" for the main and 18" for each side one. Here's a pic of them in operation.

Rossterman: Your pool looks awesome. Thank you for the advice.

Your post lit a fire under me and I decided that I was just going to forgo dealing with the PB and take on the work myself (given the great advice I have received from this forum). Before ordering anything, I wanted to 'visualize' what the sheers might look like so I marked out the cuts that I would have to make on the face of the wall. Much to my surprise, one of the 1' high walls is approx. half a foot shorter in length than the other walls. On top of that, I realized that the sheers might not look right once installed and the stacked stone was applied. The original pool drawings called for the sheer walls to be placed more to the right, avoiding the elongated 's' curve where it currently sits. If I were to complete the sheers the way I want, the three sheers would be spilling in three different directions (if that makes sense). I think it would look odd and detract from the pool.

Anyone have any suggestions/other water feature recommendations? I still feel that the wall needs additional features on the two sides of the 4' sheer to complete it. I just don't know what would might like right or what all is out there.