Keep in mind that vent gases tend to travel upward, so if there is some kind of sewer gas leak in the wall below the "smelly room" it might be going upward inside the wall and coming out the first place it can.

If you concentrate, sometime you can pinpoint a smell (or where it's coming from) just using your nose. (I did that recently in a vacant house I've been working on to find the problem in floor drain that I hadn't even known existed). I guess in your case, you can use it to determine if it is originating the the removed wall, and maybe whether it's coming from above or below.

The drains would gurgle if their ONLY source of air is through the trap and drain. Even if that roof stack were completely plugged, with an open vent (inside of the house, nonetheless) the drains wouldn't gurgle.

well i can't get too close to the interior of the wall. There is insulation there and we moved it and could see the vent was there and we didn't remove the lower portion of the wall because we figured the plumber would be able to determine if we needed to do that or not.

I pondered that the gas would rise up, however I thought that if the leak was below the bathroom then I would sometimes smell the odor in the bathroom (the floor does have a hole where the sink lines come in) or at least around the toilet and this has never happened. Now, maybe I just came to this conclusion because it makes me feel better? Also we have an access panel in the hallway that is for the shower piping and you can see the ceiling of the downstairs room from there so I would think that if the smell was below the bathroom it would stink in the access panel also, however it has never smelled there. We had it open for one week once when we were putting in a new tub faucet and no smell ever came out.

so the plumber is coming tomorrow afternoon. I am crossing my fingers he finds it and it isn't a super huge issue.

In addition we did replace the ceiling in the room below and I could see the toilet stack and i never smelled anything coming from that point. Actually come to think about it, If the leak was below the ceiling (in the first floor wall) we would not have had the smell in the upstairs when the ceiling was down because it would have just smelled up that room. We didn't have that happen and the ceiling was down for a long time.

I am kinda expecting that maybe the connection where the vent attaches to the sewer stack is bad. I just thought this is the most obvious point for something to happen?? I don't know if this is true or not. If this is seen often, is it easy to repair in a house with a cast iron stack?

I have done a bit of sniffing and i always smell the smell in that wall first, which is how I actually decided to open the wall and found that the vent is there. however, you are right, I do not know if the smell rose and came out there or it originated from there. Also our drains are not the fastest draining ones I have seen. They are slower than downstairs (downstairs has it's own vent) so maybe it is partially blocked or it became blocked and a hole opened up somewhere else and now it kinda works??? Also maybe the vent is broken near the attic? I wonder how common that is?

ugh, this is stressing me out.

I know what you mean about the stress. It really bugged me every time I walked into that house I had that smelled, and no one was even living there!

You've really got me stumped with all your descriptions, especially all the places that DON'T smell. Hopefully that plumber has some kind of smoke bomb or something that will provide a visual trail to the source of the problem. Ideally he'll find it in a relatively accessible place and be able to stick a plug or cap on the leak.

Cutting into old cast iron pipe IS problematic - hard to cut and tricky to work with. It seems to last forever, however, so hopefully it's something much simpler than an actual broken pipe.

The plumber does do smoke tests for about 80 bucks. That isn't that bad of a price.

yay! The plumber did a smoke test and found there is a huge gaping hole in our vent pipe, above where the toilet is! It shouldn't be too bad to fix! woohoo!

So I guess the hole is where I thought it was, it was actually right under the wall panel we removed. We just have to remove one more panel and insulation , so he can get to the pipe and he will be fixing it !

I can't wait for our house to be sewer smell free!

So glad to see this feedback! Now, please reply again, and tell us how that "huge gaping hole in our vent pipe" ever got there. ItÂs my first exposure to this kind of failure. So IÂd appreciate as much as you can tell us.

Pinoke

I agree with pinocchio, I want to hear how he thinks it got there. It sounds so unusual to have a hole in a cast iron pipe, especially a vent! Maybe an errant hammer blow (from a very powerful hammerer).

Also be interested to know how he fixed it, i.e. did he have something to wrap around it or did he have to cut out a damaged section and replace it?

Well we are going to remove the insulation for the plumber and he will be coming back to fix the pipe after that. Otherwise we would have to pay him 80 bucks and hour to remove our insulation!

He said he will be building a frame for the vent pipe so it doesn't fall out of the roof and then cutting out the section of pipe. He told my husband that it was corroded and sewer gas is pretty corrosive (dugh!) and that he has seen this happen at this spot before (right above the toilet connection).

It is on the side and close to the floor so I am not so sure if it could have been hit with a hammer or anything, but that is possible. Our house is over 150 years old so someone could have damaged the pipe.

So he said this is the point where all the sewer gas ends up. I assume it goes up the soil stack, can't come out the toilet so it goes up the vent stack and squeezes from the soil stack to the smaller vent stack and really works on corroding that specific spot.

I have to admit the hole is really large. We didn't notice it at first because we didn't remove all the insulation and couldn't see towards the bottom of the floor where the pipe come through. This makes sense as the bedroom smelled very often, however the room below the bedroom and bathroom rarely smelled and it seemed to be temperature dependent. So I assume the odor was rising to the attic most of the time except in certain weather conditions when it would cool and fall to the lower room. I think if the hole was below the floor (between first floor ceiling and second floor) the downstairs would smell most often.

We first noticed the smell in the cool fall evenings. I assume the gas was in the attic and then cooling with the cool weather and falling into the living area. We thought maybe the vent pipe was terminated in the attic however our attic is very small and we couldn't see if that was true or not.

-renee

oh, I am not 100% sure it is cast iron. I know the stack is. The vent looked like a blackish pipe so I assume cast iron. Maybe it isn't??

They say, "Education is the answer." (They never tell you what the question was.) But this is a case where you are paying for an education  two actually: one for you and one for the plumberÂs daughter to attend college.

I am not a plumber. But I am 100% certain, maybe 110%, that the explanation, " it was corroded and sewer gas is pretty corrosive  he has seen this happen at this spot (right above the toilet connection) before" is pure BS. If it isnÂt too late, give this moron the bumÂs rush. Tell him your dog died and you will call back right after the funeral.

I donÂt doubt that the finding of a humongous hole is true. But I can tell you  sure as heck  this is not from corrosive gases. I wish I could save you from further abuse. After all, anything further could be called habitual criminality.

To put it another way, this fella is putting threads where the sun never shines. Not that it would be Âto code, but the minimum repair here would be to wrap the broken pipe with duct tape. A really good repair would be to wrap it with a Fernco® coupling. They cost about $10.

I know you want to be relieved of the odors. I hate to think this is happening this way as we watch. After all, it happens all the time in New York City. But, we who live in fly-over country are horrified to witness a rape and shooting as we watch.

OK. IÂll admit, itÂs the shooting that really bothers me.

Pinoke

You are saying the guy is lying? I am not sure I agree with you. I have done alot of reading and have read that this is actually a common problem in houses of this age. I have seen pictures of other old vent pipes where they show the corrosion.

the pipe could have been broken and this causes the corrosion to begin. I dont' know. However I do know that I am not going to wrap it with duct tape. I am not going to open up the wall in five years and retape it.

The plumber works for a large reputable company and he said the repair, which may be done by him or not, will cost about 80 bucks.

Also I am sure the pipe is weakened, the hole is big, so I would rather replace the pipe rather than having it fall apart in a later age.

I called another plumber before him and he said a smoke test would be 400 dollars! This guy had it done for 80.

-renee

No. I am not saying the plumber is a lying. In fact, I now agree that you are getting a good service for $80. I guess my creative writing went over your head. I should have been more careful.

Make no mistake: I do not and never would recommend duct tape to repair this problem. It was a playful reference to the Âall purpose repair. But I said it, because that would actually get rid of the odors.

The Fernco fitting is a rubber sleeve with a high-strength band that will be a truly adequate remedy and to-code. Since this is a not a professional site, and appeals to DIYers, I was sort of suggesting that you are already doing the most of the work by exposing this repair. It is one small step to repair the pipe.

Then again, for 8 dimes, you can let him work in the cramped attic, cut cast iron, if need and make the repair. Probably he will guarantee it.

Unfortunately my mind wandered far astray, in pursuit of the truth about corrosion. That I will stand behind. Cast iron pipe and the other black kind (ABS, which you don't have, I suppose) and other pipe rated DVW are especial suitable for their resistance to corrosion.

In any case, it has to be an extreme rarity for this pipe to fail in the way you described. I have seen CI pipe corrode and leak where raw sewage has stood for a long time. This occurs when there is a chronic problem, such as reverse slope, or long-term clogging, where the effluent stands in the pipe  always a horizontal one. (A vertical would have to be filled too, but fail later.)

So, I am sticking with my statement that sewer gases are not the cause of this huge, gaping hole. It makes no sense that any corrosive agent would be concentrated at one point, and predictably, "Â at this spot (right above the toilet connection.)" Assuming that a conventional installation, using a closet bend, is how the toilet is connected, that fitting will flow into a sanitary Tee.

And the vent pipe just above that is inserted into the hub of the Tee. That, in those years, would have been a lead-and-oakum caulk joint. The pipe would have been cut with a stress-inducing chain cutter, typically.

IÂm guessing, that the pipe was partially broken during the installation, years ago. And that the subsequent joint making, which packs lead tightly against the OD of the pipe, introduced a heavy permanent breaking forced. Finally, with aging, vibration and thermal changes, the old damage revealed itself as a hole.

If the break-out is small, it may not matter a lot. If one large piece fell to the bottom of the stack, it could create a clog there. Keep your eyes open for that.

Sorry to be so hard on the guy. HeÂs probably a pretty good egg after all. But IÂd look out for the other fellow. $400 for a Âsmoke test means heÂs keeping the good stuff for himself. Fine Columbian, probably.

Pinoke

Oh, fewww, sorry.

You just hit a nerve with me. I can't tell you how many bad repairs I have seen! We had to replace the brown water drain pipe from the bathroom sink about a year ago (hence our new ceiling) because someone nailed the subfloor in and hit the pvc pipe and cracked it. The "repair" was glue (maybe epoxy) with a paper towel wrapped around it. Actually the paper towel was very cute, it had teddy bears on it.

So after deciding the he** with it we tore down the entire plaster ceiling and replaced the pipe section. It wasn't too bad, for me. My husband ended up getting a bit of smudge in his face when we cut the pipe. But at least he got to buy a recipricating saw.

Ugh, and of course I distinctly remember pointing at the big patch in the ceiling when we were looking at the house and saying "what is with that patch?"

the owner shook his head and replied "awww, I dont' know it was there when we bought the house"

I wish we had dislosure laws here like everyone else!!

You are right though, we could do it ourselves however I think for 80 bucks I can take a break and have the plumber do it. It sure will be nice :)

Plus we have a habit of either A) breaking something else while we are fixing something or B) seeing something that just isn't exactly right and fixing that making a repair 10x more expensive and harder.

There is some sorta flange near the bottom of the pipe where it meets the floor, not sure if that is just something they put there to hold it or a connection. My husband thinks the pipe was hit at sometime. The place that the pipe is broken is facing a wall that was put in.

We also did ponder the idea that maybe the piece fell in the pipe. When we do a little cleaning this weekend we are going to see if we find the pieces on the floor. If not I may mention it to the plumber. I am absolutely going to make sure he tests the vent pipe to make sure it is clear (I guess I just need to flush the toilet) before he leaves.

I would argue that over time, sewer products would in themselves be pretty corrosive. I don't know about the particular part your break is in, but iron can and will corrode. Anyway you know the hole was already there, so who cares if the plumber can't figure how it got there, just as long as it's not going to happen again. Might be worth checking if the stack has its proper cover up on the roof, and maybe ask plumber to check for the missing piece, maybe it's down in the basement near an inspection eye or something - you don't want your drains blocked with it.

Perhaps the previous people had the roto-rooter person in and somehow they went into the stack pipe? Cast iron is pretty delicate and can be shattered with a hammer or similar, quite easily.

Main thing is, you've found the issue and you'll be able to enjoy your house odour free. That must be a bonus.

Do not use duct tape. It has caused you enough of a problem "country plumbing" should not be used. I can't believe a plumber would even suggest duct tape.

If it's as big of hole as you say I seriously doubt a Ferco or no-hub coupler as they are correctly called would be the right application for the job. I would agree with pjb999, good info in that post. You're on the right track.

I knew when they quit teaching Shakespeare, we were headed for a generation of people who could neither read nor interpret language.

Seems the last guy that mentioned duct tape also said he was not a plumber and that he was Âkidding, by drawing on a common joke.

Now, just for what itÂs worth, if I got to the point where I had a wall open and a gaping hole that was pumping sewer gas into the living space, and a guy coming over in a day or two, I most certainly would wrap it with something  even duct tape.

I guess, dumb as he sounded two weeks ago, Sen. Kerry was right: if you donÂt get good grades you could ended up under A Rock.

DonÂt be too surprised if Mr. Wonderful uses a Fernco® coupling to repair the stack.

Pinoke

Can anyone help? We have been occasionally having a sewer smell. My wife thinks it because of a high water table. It's in the laundry room. Now for the last two days, we have killed a dozen flies in the house. I've checked downstairs and see nothing. I was told maybe the vents are clogged. I know a friend along time ago used a hose to run water down them to clean them out. Is this a possibility.
jake_gardener

jake gardner, are you sure something didn't die in your house?? We had a mouse die under our bathroom vanity and it smelled horrable for about 2 weeks. It was aweful.

Do you have a crawl space or a basement? If you have a smell and flies, and have a crawl space, you could have something dead under there.

I used to live in an apt. that had a crawl space and it was near a swampland and the crawl space was full of water and the apt. never smelled.

I think that you would smell a musty swampy smell, however this is not a sewer smell! Trust me on that!

Oh, ya, also when we first bought our washer we would leave it closed and it developed an aweful smell from the moisture in it. I would run an empty washer load with hot water and bleach and then leave your washer open if it is not in use. See if that helps.

If you vent is clogged I guess you should hear alot of gurgling when you flush a toilet or something. I was told also that I could stick a hose in the vent pipe but I wouldn' have let anyone do this as our house was older and I was afraid there was a hole, and my suspicion was right! If I had filled up the vent pipe with water I would have flooded out the house!!

THANKS FOR THE INFO; I DID GO UNDER THE HOUSE IN THE CRAWL SPACE AND DIDN'T FIND ANYTHING. WE JUST DON'T KNOW WHERE THE FLIES ARE GETTNG IN THE HOUSE. WE REALLY DON'T HAVE A DEAD SMELL AND ONLY AN OCCASIONAL MUSTY SMELL. WE'LL TRY THE WASHER LID IDEA ( WASHING OUT AND LEAVING OPEN).
I'M GOING TO TRY THE HOSE IN THE VENTS THING, OUR HOUSE ISN'T THAT OLD AND THE PIPES SHOULD BE GOOD. ANYWAY, I'LL SEE WHERE THE LEAK IS FOR SURE, IF THERE IS ONE.
THANKS AGAIN

Pinocchio,
Your nose is growing! If you think a frazzle dazzle with words impresses those on this board you are sorely mistaken.

Your condescending, and know it all attitude has become quite tiresome. Maybe you should try a slice of humble pie.

People come here for help and advice. It would behoove you to change your attitude to make your relies more credible.

Sorry, plumberty. But when a person shoots from the hip and hits his foot, he deserves any brickbats that follow. While you posted the first ad hominum reply, I can handle it. A person canÂt come whizzing into a thread, misquote a writer and then blame him for the information being wrong.

I already gulped some of that pie, by explaining to the OP that I jumped to a conclusion (on pricing) that was wrong. What other mistake did I make? I will gladly acknowledge it, apologize, repair and replace it. If it helps, IÂll even deny I said it.

Does that make anyone feel better? I hope so. Because I live by some rules and adages. One of my favorites is, Free Advice is Worth Its Price. The Garden Web gets what they pay me to write.

BTW, it is an extremely rare occasion when my postings donÂt contain a direct and useful answer to the actual question that was asked. And while sometimes I say too much, it is worth noting that there is plenty of space to do that here.

There are real, true professionals who hang here or visit occasionally. When I am wrong, they do a fine job of saying so by correcting my errors. I try hard not to make any mistakes. That probably explains why I hardly ever make one.

OK. HereÂs another one: replying to bickering. So, that's it. Just a little one. Mea Culpa.

Pinoke