Dishwashers

11 years ago

I know I could post this on appliance forum but this is my go-to-place for anything pertaining to kitchens.

We are getting ready to do a complete kitchen reno. When I was in our appliance store and opened one of their dishwashers and bent over to mimic loading it my back began to hurt immediately from how low the dishwasher was to the floor. I cannot be the only one who has this problem and yet I have never seen this issue addressed on either this forum or appliance forum. I am short - under five feet. How in the world do people of average height or taller deal with this back breaking appliance? It didn't matter which brand I looked at they were all that way - built low to the floor.

The salesman showed me a "dish drawer" but I did not like the configuration and you are still stooping low if you have company and have to fill the lower drawer.

So my only answer is to go with a standard dishwasher like my old one. I was hoping for a better interior layout which some of the new ones had, but not at the price of creating back pain.

Just for the record I am 67 and load my own groceries and stack firewood so am definitely not a weakling. Tell me I'm not alone in this complaint - misery loves company.

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Comments (10)

lascatx
11 years ago
What do you have now? If the DW is an older one, chances are you are not used to what is more popular now -- a tall tub, meaning that the bottom is lower to give you more room inside and allowing you to load taller items. I am tall and have the tall tub DWs -- have for about 12 years now. I am not bothered by loading them and wonder if you were bending down to the bottom rack. In reality, you don't bend that low. On the bottom rack, you generally have a bowl or plate in your hand and the reach is at least 5-6" higher if not 8-12".

The other thing I would look at is whether you have strength but not flexibility. They don't go hand in hand, and you can be strong and lose flexibility f you don't stretch to maintain it. And we all tend to deal with loss of flexibility as we get older. If that's happening, it probably isn't just DWs that can cause you problems and you might want to talk to your doctor about some exercises or physical therapy to help you avoid pain and future injury.
heidihausfrau
11 years ago
Since you are planning a total redo anyway, why don't you place the dishwasher higher--like they do sometimes for people in wheelchairs (not that you are!). I have seen that at a few home shows, and think it is a pretty clever idea. It would make the dishwasher more user friendly-like a wall oven. But,not that high.
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Haven't ever used a drawer, but you too can notice that dishdrawers have square racks as regular 24" DWs 18" diswashers are a compromise for very small kitchen. I mean : draw the biggest possible circle in a 24" x 24" square, then the biggest possible circle in a 18" x 24" rectangle. You can see that corners in the square are closer to the circle, while rectangle ones are not that close Spray arms draw a circle while spinning. So the spray action in rack corners is more effective in square rack designs (DD and 24" DW) than rectangular rack design (18" DW) If one is aware of this and loads a 18" DW consequently, there's no problem. But if you load tall and narrow juice glasses soiled of orange juice in the corners of a rectangular rack (18" DW), you can't pretend the will be cleaned as well as a dishdrawer or a regular 24" machine do Anyway a single drawer holds less items than the two racks of a 18" machine A regular 18" or 24" machine is more flexible than a double dishdrawer : in case of extralarge items you can raise the upper rack or even take it out (Bosch), with a dishdrawer ... you can handwash. I guess space is not your issue (a single drawer is as large as a 24" machine), rather you aren't supposed to have a daily full load in a regular 24" DW In this case be aware that latest european 24" DW have load size sensing devices and use 7-8 litres of water (round 2 gallons) for a *full= two racks* load. The *single* dishdrawer uses 1.95 gallons per load, so partially loaded 24" machines can even use less water than a *single* drawer. To cut a story short : if you have place go for a regular machine : it cleans better, you'll have plenty of place for those times you have guests at dinners and on the other side you can run partial loads without feeling "guilty"
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The 18" Miele is well designed and reviewed and should be fine for two people. Even if it is run more often, they say nowadays that dishwashers use a lot less water than hand washing, so that wouldn't be so bad. Thinking toward the future, however, one of the few appliances that really comes in a pretty standard size is the dishwasher. There are variations of less than an inch, but they're all pretty much 24". If you get the 18" unit, you're betting that in the future, because even Mieles wear out, there will be a nice replacement. Also, that if you should ever want to sell your home, the buyers won't be put off by it. Happy medium: Before you get too far along, why not talk to a carpenter or cabinet installer and see if the cabinetry can be customized so that the sink can be supported properly in a smaller cabinet, with the drainboard extending over the DW, and that the DW can be installed under it. There are many dishwashers that anchor at the sides rather than the top, so if the drainboard is pretty flat, and won't be affected by the heat of the machine, it might be possible. I know what it's like to be in love with a sink, but between one and the other, I'd chose a standard sized sink and dishwasher, rather than an oversized sink and undersized dishwasher.
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If you're concerned that you may not use it enough to run it that often, then get one that has a half load function. Many allow you to just do the top rack. However, the new Energy Star DW's only use around 3 1/2 gallons for a whole load nowadays. Even if you do run one for a less than full load, which uses around 2 1/2 gallons, you're still saving water over handwashing that same load. Seriously. The next time you handwash your dishes, you should try to do it on less than 3 1/2 gallons of water---and that includes rinsing! You won't be able to do it. You still need a certain amount of water to be able to submerge your dishes in, whereas the DW uses a much smaller amount and directed force to be able to loosen soil. A DW is considered a necessity in today's kitchen. Not having one subtracts value from the home, and indeed may knock an otherwise nice home out of the running when it comes resale time. At the very least, if you can't break your hand washing routine, you can always use the DW as your drying rack and get that off of your counter. But, once you really experience the quality of wash without you steaming up your glasses for a half an hour, you'll never go back!
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carolmka
11 years ago
I have a tall tub washer. I an 5' 6. I agree its not like a frontloader washer where you actually bend over and look in. And if you get a good dw the bottom rack easily pulls out. I love the flexibility of a tall tub. I have the culinary rack in mine
doc8404
11 years ago
My DW is elevated about 9" higher than normal and fully integrated into the cabinetry.

I do not have back trouble but honestly, I'd never place a DW on the floor ever again after using this one.

Doc
lascatx
11 years ago
I understand the appeal of a raised DW, and you can put a drawer underneath, but make sure you think about the other end of things. I don't have counter space to spare and I would hate the elevated counter next to my sink. It would really change how things work around your sink, but maybe that's okay for you.
darrah
Original Author
11 years ago
Thanks for the responses. Lascatx, you bring up an excellent point. Next time I go in I'll be sure to bring some items to put in the d/w and see if that makes a difference in not having to stoop as low.

Doc, if counter space were no problem I might consider moving the d/w higher but unfortunately I need all the counterspace I can get.

I did like the layout of the new d/w so I'm not giving on it yet.
weedmeister
11 years ago
There's nothing that says dish drawers have to be located beneath each other.
nippy2
11 years ago
I am in total agreement concerning the very low bottom racks in the newer 'tall tub' dishwashers. We, too, are looking for a solution that doesn't require bending so low, and can't seem to find one.

It would be nice if the tall-tub dishwasher bottom rack were adjustable - has anyone seen that?

Or a dishwasher with 3 racks, so you could choose NOT to use the bottom rack?
taggie
11 years ago
Darrah, if you hadn't said you still stack your own firewood then I'd say you should get the old type of d/w or raise it or something. But you are clearly in good shape and I think the new tall tub d/w is just something you'll get used to and not even notice after a few times. It's probably just that it's different enough from your current d/w and you are thinking about it.

If you'd said you were weak and frail, different story! But I'm near enough to my sixties myself that I don't think 67 is that old! If you are in otherwise good shape then a little bending is a healthy thing, imo. I plan on still doing yoga at that age myself. :)

Good luck to you.
rococogurl
11 years ago
smeg -- the largest appliance manufacturer in Italy -- makes a 36" wide "horizontal" dishwasher that can be mounted just under the counter height. No bending whatsoever. Here's a photo I took at a kitchen show -- you can see they put it right below the cooktop (neither was working). Link is below. A 36" wide cabinet would be needed but that would be a nice wide pull-out below.

Not inexpensive but you are paying for the convenience and height. It can even take a panel and look like a drawer.

Here is a link that might be useful: smeg 36

Dishwashers

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lascatx

heidihausfrau

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doc8404

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