No Drain for "Hybrid" Water Heater

9 years ago

Looking to replace the water heater in a room underneath the house with one of the heat pump water heaters. The room has no drain The floors and walls are poured concrete. Live outside the city limits so we're not bound by code. These type heaters require a drain to carry off water from the heat pump. I'm looking for an alternative way to set this up that doesn't involve drilling a drain hole through the wall. (Yes, I understand that if the water heater develops a leak it will run onto the floor of this room.)

Couldn't this drain just empty into a reservoir that I'd empty just like I do the dehumidifier? And, would I need the dehumidifier if I had this type water heater installed in this area?

Any suggestions here?

TIA

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (9)

User
9 years ago
I have had the GE GeoSpring Hybrid Hot Heater for over three years. Absolutely love it for its huge energy savings.

I have a condensate pump that collects the unit's condensate and pumps it over to a deep sink that I have.

The unit is in my basement and my whole house Heat Pump is also in the basement. There is no reason why I could not have tied the GeoSpring condensate line into the A/C units condensate pump.

While the Heat pump hot water does remove heat and condensate from the room, it is not enough to really matter. The unit may remove a few cups of water per day. In a space the size of a basement it has no discernible effect on room temperature.

If you REALLY need a dehumidifier, having the hybrid heater in the room will not reduce that need to any measurable extent.

PS We use Hybrid mode only for my wife and I... never need to use the (expensive) electric heaters as backup. Also, the unit is noisy - about as loud as my inside A/C. Not an issue in the basement.
jrb451
Original Author
9 years ago
Thanks for the information. I really don't want to do a drain installation if it can be avoided.
Related Discussions
What to do? 2 50-gal hybrids or 1 80-gal electric water heater
Q
Comments (14)
Zone4 - you might not be happy but disclosure wouldn't apply here. There is no code requirement that applies (that I know of) and so there is no breach. It would seem that installing LP for that purpose alone seems a little extreme. One option - which has cheaper run cost and install than the LP tankless option - run a recirc loop from that bathroom to the tank. Have it on a switch. You turn on the switch and the line fills with hot water. The pump is $200, electric should be $200 and extra plumbing is $100. You won't waste water and as long as you shut it off, you won't waste electricity to heat the water. My $100 charges of course are guesses and the plumbing in the slab might be more. The $200 electric is what it would cost me in NC. You can of course put the kitchen sink on the same loop and install a switch at that location too. Recirc loops are done all the time but where you need to be careful is the energy loses because they are usually left on nearly all the time. By having them on-demand with switches, you counter most of those losses. To help with some of this, I would definitely insulate the slab plumbing lines. Another option would be to do solar for the hot water and use a 80 gallon tank. If the incentives are there, solar can be reasonable. I paid less than $2000 all in which is about the cost of your 2 50 gallon heat pumps.
...See More
Anyone have experience with hybrid-tankless water heaters?
Q
Comments (8)
I recently installed a tankless water heater to get rid of a tank heater that was near its end of life and had issues with placement. The tankless water heater hangs on a wall and is easily accessible. I had some unique requirements. I wanted to be able to run as many things at one time as possible. I live in a ranch style home and with the tank heater, I never had hot water in my master bathroom sink. I did not expect a tankless water heater to change that. I had tried a recirculation system and it did not work because of the layout of my pipes. About 3yrs ago, I purchased point of use heaters for the bathroom sinks so I could have hot water. I had concerns about the tankless but really did not have anywhere to put a tanked system in my home. I bought a Rinnai RUR98i. It is rated at over 9gpm and has a built in recirculation unit. I have never thought I would love a water heater. I set the timer for the recirculation and always have hot water in my master bathroom sink. It takes about 5secs for the shower to get hot. I have been using the tankless water heater for about 1month now. I have not received my gas bill yet so don't really know how much I am saving. My home has three bathrooms and we have run two showers simultaneously with the dishwasher and washer running at the same time. I have not experienced a cold water sandwich as often referred to. I live in cold weather so I will have to see how the unit behaves once the incoming water temperature drops. I already have water saving appliances. My grohe and hangrohe shower heads are 2.5gpm max. My washer heats its own water as needed. I plan to replace my dishwasher soon and will connect the new one to cold water only. My current dishwasher is connected to hot water and does not really need it. The post is long winded but I wanted to let you know that Tankless heaters have come a long way since I started researching them five years ago. Noritz makes some units that go above 10gpm. Good luck with your search.
...See More
Cost to replace gas water heater with hybrid electric water heater
Q
Comments (8)
There is some additional work to do a gas to electric conversion: 1. Capping the gas line 2. Capping the vent 3. Running the electric circuit 4. Slightly different plumbing - the inlet is usually low on hybrid heaters, for example. 5. Hybrid heaters are heavier - more difficult to get into a basement than gas. The only one of these things that is significant is the 30 amp / 240 volt circuit. Note: Gas water heaters in older homes were located near the flue so they could vent. That vent was usually a separate flue - but still part of the fireplace. The fireplace is located in the living room - which is generally NOT where hot water is being used. Once untethered from the flue, consider if you can relocate the water heater closer to where hot water is actually being used. When I've relocated my water heaters, it's been part of a replumb on a 100 year old house and I was able to get the heater much closer to the points of use. What's more, changing the furnace to a condensing type that vents with PVC can trigger the need to line a masonry chimney to vent a standard atmospheric water heater. The point being is that for older homes with masonry flues, changing out the water heater to something that doesn't vent using the flue is part of a plan that includes eventually modernizing the furnace as well. In my homes, I've installed a gas tankless heater to avoid having to line the flue. In the future it would be a hybrid electric. Avoiding the cost of lining the masonry flue changes the economics of converting to a different type of water heater. Do not go with a standard resistance electric water heater though. Labor rates vary by market, but assuming that you don't relocate the heater I think there's price gouging, frankly. It's still "exotic" for many installers who have been very used to a very fast and easy "exact replacement". I don't know your location, but you may be able to find a skilled handyperson who can do this work. I think you are being smart about this and coming up with a replacement plan for major appliances instead of just stumbling through. And although I applaud you for being proactive on your heater replacement, I also think you do have time to do it on better terms. The cost for plumbers is unreasonable right now in many areas. You can wait a year (or two) until things settle down. There may also be additional incentives in the recent energy bill. Just a note: There really are some additional costs and considerations for a homeowner to making some of these conversions. You really want an outline of a plan, understand how projects are related, and do some of the work proactively. Also look for rebates and incentives. The only time most of these make sense is when you are replacing an existing unit that's end-of-life. But waiting until your furnace or water heater goes out isn't the time to redesign your plumbing, for example. Not planning ahead or working proactively insures that you will do the expedient thing to get the immediate problem resolved and miss the opportunity to reduce energy usage for another 12-20 years. For example, I just wired my detached garage for a class II charger. It was about $700 in materials with me doing the work myself. The actual charger will be another $800 - 1000. But I ran the circuit now because I plan to build a patio that would have made trenching a line much more difficult and expensive. Even if I don't get an electric vehicle, having it prewired will be a selling point. It's good to make a plan on some of these things so you can incorporate them into other projects.
...See More
Domestic water heaters - are hybrids worth it?
Q
Comments (2)
mtvhike, I believe hybrid heatpump water heaters CAN substantially save on electricity use but your household use patterns need to be considered. I think they all have at least three settings, that I'll call Resistance heat only (conventional operation), Heat pump only, and Both. Obviously, the Heat Pump only setting would use the least electricity and provide the most savings but I've heard that recovery times (how long is required to reheat all or part of a tank of water when cold water has been added) without a resistance boost can be hours and hours. If your hot water usage occurs throughout the day rather than being concentrated during a few peak hours, a Heat Pump Only setting may not offer much more than lukewarm water after the tank has been run out. Using the hybrid setting will provide quicker recovery but will negate the benefit of having a heat pump unit. Another thing to consider, in addition to the noise factor wdcruise mentioned, is the ambient temperatures through the year of the spot where the heater is located. Warm room temperature provides more heat to be more quickly extracted from the air. Cooler or even cold temps are going to limit how much and how fast the heat pump can act. Maybe see if any of your neighbors have such units and see what their experiences are. And, speak with some plumbers in your area to get their experiences. An acid test - do they have one in their home?
...See More
User
9 years ago
" I really don't want to do a drain installation if it can be avoided."

I understand... as I said, there is not a lot of condensate, but it still MUST somehow be disposed of.

I mean you could simply put a bucket on the floor next to the heater...

YMMV
jrb451
Original Author
9 years ago
Got my GeoSpring installed yesterday. It's been running about 24 hours now in the Heat Pump mode. I'd guess there's no more than a cup of water in the pail I placed to collect condensate runoff. If it stays like this I can mange it like I do a dehumidifier and dump it once a week. If it's more then I'll tap into a gray water drain pipe to run outside.
jakethewonderdog
9 years ago
Good to know. Thanks for following up.

Let us know your experience regarding cooling/dehumidifying the basement too.
User
9 years ago
Yup. Not much water NOR not much cooling of the space!!!
jrb451
Original Author
9 years ago
OK, been a full week now since my GeoSprings install in a non-heated/cooled 15 X 15 dry storage room with poured concrete walls, floor and ceiling beneath the home's living area. (Not a basement, more like a split-level room with ground level entrance.) Left the temperature set at the factory level of 120 and running on heat pump, not using the heating elements.

Observations - works like a charm. No lack of hot water at any time. I expected the heat pump to run more than it does but more often than not when I've gone down to look in on things it's not running. Very little condensate water is produced; I'd say between 4-6 ounces a day, tops. Because of this I've had to turn the dehumidifier back on to keep the humidity at 50%. I had hoped to do away with the dehumidifier altogether but can't. It does cool the room off somewhat but the de-humidifier is adding heat back in. But I guess this is a good thing because now I don't feel the need to invest in a condensate pump and drill thorough the wall to install a drain. I'll handle the water in a gallon jug that I'll empty once a month at the current rate.

Just waiting on my $350 rebate check from my power company. I'd do it all over again.
User
9 years ago
"I'd do it all over again."

When i got mine I told my neighbors that I would pay for one for each of them if I could be assured that i somehow would receive 50% of their electrical bill savings.

I do well in the stock market, but the ROI on these things is incredible.

As you've describd your basement room, I'd be shocked if there was ANY measurable change in temperature in the room... you will, of course, feel a cold breeze from the heat pump on top.

If you keep posting here, you will not be able to resist chipping in when future posters ask for info on these devices. There are thermodynamically ridiculous answers frequently given by people that have never even seen one.

They're not for everyone, but they offer an alternative to folks without NG and or with NG exhaust gas problems.

This post was edited by saltidawg on Tue, Aug 26, 14 at 20:45
JeromeMoler
9 years ago
It better that you replace the water heater or make a drain in your home. If it is difficult to make a drain in your house then you must consult with the builder or with plumber regarding your problem with water heater. You can also go with some other options for water heater.

Here is a link that might be useful: septic system parts

This post was edited by JeromeMoler on Thu, Aug 28, 14 at 3:32

No Drain for "Hybrid" Water Heater

Comments (9)

User

jrb451
Original Author

Related Discussions

User

jrb451
Original Author

jakethewonderdog

User

jrb451
Original Author

User

JeromeMoler

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

No Drain for "Hybrid" Water Heater

Comments (9)

User

jrb451Original Author

Related Discussions

User

jrb451Original Author

jakethewonderdog

User

jrb451Original Author

User

JeromeMoler

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

jrb451
Original Author

jrb451
Original Author

jrb451
Original Author