There is a similar post on the compost forum. An article from the UK that says that children who play in the dirt and get dirty are healthier than those who don't. It seems their little immune systems build up a tolerance to germs/whatever because they are exposed to small amounts over time.
Sure explains my good health!

Marlingardener, I believe that is very true! Seems like with all the "sanitizing" going on everywhere that there are more sick people than ever. I work in a hospital and I see it every day that I am there!

My kitchen is very clean, but not "eat off the floor" clean. I have two dogs...."nuff said!

I don't bleach my countertops or cutting boards, but I do wash them thoroughly after each use.

Linda

Cleanliness is Next To.....Impossible.

My old doctor told me that were were "sanitizing ourselves sick" and that kids weren't getting immunities to anything because we were constantly scrubbing them and everything they touched.

I do bleach cutting boards and counter tops, especially when I'm canning because I want everything very clean before it goes into those jars for preservation and I do NOT let my cat get on my counters, she's been in the litter box for crying out loud. (Yes, I have a friend who does that)

However, I have Cooper, the Dead Cat from He!! and Ashley's rabbit. The rabbit lives in the garage but comes inside, the other two live inside. I farm, I garden, my house is passable but not spotless.

And as I have often said, I'll kiss a horse on the lips. I ain't afraid of no germs!!!

Rita, my grandmother told me the same thing, so I figure my peck of dirt might just as well be flavored with something I like, say....molasses cookies? (grin)

Annie

I'd have to quote Annie, "cleanliness is next to impossible."

That's not to say my kitchen is a festering swarm of deadly bacteria, but, I also have pets, a husband, two kids...and a partridge in a pear treeee.

And it figures that I would be the Felix Unger in the family.

Sol

Regarding bleach in the kitchen, here is a little tip:

I have several chopping boards, one is a large white plastic board. The plastic gets yellow after a while. Whenever I expect company, I need to get rig of the yellow. I don't want my friends to think that it's dirty.

Put two to three layers of paper towel on the chopping board, soak the towels with bleach and cover them with a plastic bag. In about 1/2 an hour, the board will be white as new.

You can also soak the sink brush in bleach to whiten the bristles.

dcarch

My husband and I have often commented on the whole "hand sanitizer" phenomenon. I have a friend who was always chasing her little girl around with a bottle of it, and the poor kid was always sick. I don't know which was the chicken and which the egg in her case, but in mine, washing hands was something a kid did (under protest) before sitting down at the dinner table. Being that I was out and about (rain or shine) almost any minute that I wasn't in school or being forced to clean my room, I can't even imagine the sheer number and variety of germs I was exposed to on a daily basis, and aside from the usual childhood "must haves", I was almost never sick.

I stuff my turkey, eat my beef blood rare, make pancakes if the milk spoils and take a sandwich with me to work without worrying about the mayo spoiling...haven't poisoned myself or anyone else yet.

I have clients who have kitchens so clean I figure they just don't eat.

To each, their own. So I've got dishes in my sink and food splatters on my stove. Other things are more interesting than worrying about whether or not anyone would care.

There was a similar thread going on the kitchen forum earlier this week, kicked off by some OCD recommendations in a cooking magazine. I didn't get around to replying, but like those who did, I don't measure up, although I think I do a pretty good job at basic clean-up and preventing cross-contamination.

Here is a link that might be useful: Kitchen Forum Discussion

Messy, messy. I do a thorough cleaning before baking. It also gets cleaned regularly - washed floors and counters but the mess gets piled right back on top. I have a dog, cat and postpartum hair so I make sure to do an extra heavy duty job before baking, particularly rolled cookies. I hate that hair in food thing. Most of my neighbours and friends have spotless kitchens which I am jealous of but I cook way more than they do. (yes, this is what I tell myself to make it okay)

It hink the point of the linked sites was the reason we are seeing so many food related allergies in children is the trend toward germlessness....
And I don't agree...I think that we have so many more chemicals and pesticides etc in the mix of the food we eat, that what we see isn't necessarily allergy to the food but to something in the processing.
As for seeing more and more...I have food allergies as did my mother and my grandfather on the other side of the family...my daughter has allergies to food items and on grand child...
Buta t the turn of the century my grandfather knew that strawberries geve him hives and my mother got mouth sores and a rash from bananas....and so does my daughter.
I don't think our immune systems are attacking our bodied because they don't have enough germs to keep them busy....which is the contention of the articles.

Cleanliness is next to ... Thursday (the house cleaners come every other Friday).

It depends on the dirt for me. Yeah, I'll be sure to clean carefully things that touch raw chicken, etc., and I don't let the cats on the counter. Messy counters annoy me; I don't like to cook where there are crumbs, spills, etc., and don't even start me on papers or clutter -- but I don't sanitize all the time, just wipe down, sweep, etc.

I don't worry too much about plain old dirt as a health hazard. That's not where viruses are anyway. There are probably more "dangerous" things on my hands than on my shoes. So I wash my hands frequently rather than worrying about sterilizing my environment.

Bottom line: you can't do surgery in my kitchen, but you won't get sick eating here.

I'm not saying I'm right -- I'm just answering the question.

Linda, I have to agree with you on the chemicals and pesticides being the culprit. I think they're behind a lot of our current problems.

Just think, you have fluoride in your drinking water and it's 10 times more poisonous than rat poison. And that's just one example... the list goes on and on.

As far as the cleanliness, I can't help but think back in time to when there wasn't all this big deal about sanitizing everything. Heck, my mom, grandmothers all butchered a lot of chickens without some special board. None of us were ever sick. And about the only food allergies you did hear about were strawberries.

Beth

This is my thread, so I am allowed to go a little off topic. LOL

I started to grow tomatoes a few years back, I got hit by all kinds of blight. Total wipeout!!!

All kinds of advice from the forums I participated to sanitizing the garden, rotate crops, spray, spray, spray, destroy diseased plants, etc.

Well, not having the time and space, I just let the dead plants pile up, and grow in the same space again and again. I did nothing.

Interestingly every year, things got better and better.

This past season here in the NE, everyone is devastated by Early Blight, I had the best year yet even the weather had been terrible. Very little damage to speak of.

I donÂt know if this is just luck or if there is now in my garden plenty of good micro organisms to counteract the bad ones because I have not done anything to destroy them.

Remember gypsy moths? Nature took care that problem didnÂt it?

Back on topic:
I spent part of my childhood living in tropic areas where there was no refrigeration. Meats were out in the hot air day in and day out, we ate spoiled food all the time, flies everywhere, and bread got moldy the very next day, No one got sick.

Now I have friends who wash their kids hands until they bleed, and they still get sick regularly.

Every day, you hear on TV,"Do you know that your keyboard is dirtier than your toilet seat? Now go and buy something to sanitize it!"

dcarch

I think it's a combination of things, and everyone here knows how I feel about the pesticides, herbicides, fungicides and all the other "cides" put into our food, onto our food, near our food. Those things are meant to KILL stuff, they can't be good for us. Add the egregious use of antibiotics, growth hormones and general chemicals in the animal industry and it's no wonder people are sick.

But sanitizing everything constantly is also a problem. Too much of anything is not a good thing and that includes obsessive "sanitizing".

Annie

Don't mean to go OT, here, just going to elaborate a tad.

I work in a medical center with 9 other women in my department. We have unlimited access to sanitizing sprays, wipes, masks, cloths, etc.

Many, if not all of the girls I work with come in each morning and before beginning their shift will spray and wipe down their desk top, phone, computer screen and keyboard...some even spray the pens and pencils.

As I said, many of them do this daily, others maybe weekly. Every one of them has been out ill at least 4-5 times per year or more.

I have never done any of the above sanitizing rituals and I have called in ill only two days in three years. Could be a coinkydink, but it makes ya wonder....

Linda

Well, I live in unorganized squalor and dirt, per se, but I'm careful about cross-contamination, etc. Matter of fact, I'm practically "surgical" around raw meats -- thanks mom. I will say that one day I was horrified to see my son eating a raw (and I mean raw) hamburger from McDonalds -- no ill effects, but McD's got a visit from the Health Department courtesy of moi! Not big on fast food anyway, but GAH!

As far as hand sanitizers, etc. Family members have Type 1 diabetes and asthma. What is "just a cold" for some, can rapidly escalate into an ordeal for us. I cringe when someone's constantly been blowing their nose during the sermon in church or hacking into their hands, and then we "pass the peace." My daughter brought H1N1 home from college last month, and it was a month-long domino effect, although my son was lucky enough to get Tamiflu. Sorry for the tangent.

Cathy in SWPA

My late MIL's kitchen was disgusting. You could stick to the floor. She was a wonderful cook, but it was so gross. My kitchen isn't pristine, and I grew up on a cattle ranch, and believe strongly in the healing power of dirt, but there's a limit.

Cathy, Ashley brought home H1N1 too. From the hospital where she works. Of course, being in health care she got the shot. I didn't. She is constantly cleaning her hands, her purse goes into a locker and her shoes stay at the hospital. Her scrubs go into the laundry as soon as she gets home but absent spraying her down before she leaves, she's as "clean" as she can get before she leaves.

I still have the remnants of the cough but it has nothing to do with the cleanliness of my kitchen, it has to do with the fact that even the hospital couldn't sanitize to the point where Ashley didn't bring home the germs. Just like your college student, it would come home even if your kitchen had been sterilized! Ashley's hand sanitizer didn't stop it.

Annie

Yes, but with the H1N1, I have been more paranoid OUTSIDE of my home. Publix offers the sanitizing wipes up front and you better believe I wipe that buggy handle down before I touch it. But then I'm really bad about putting my hands on my face - wiping my eyes...

Cleanliness is next to........next to the last thing on my "to do" list, right before dying! LOL
I hate to clean.

That said, my kitchen is cluttered but clean. I don't cross-contaminate, counters are wiped down, cutting boards bleached as needed, floors swept.

Just don't try to prepare any food over there in the corner by the cookbooks.......where the dust bunnies live. You'll disturb them and they'll take over the world.

I'm another advocate to building up some immunities...within reason! I'll eat a carrot right out of the dirt, but wash my store-bought veggies. All those chemicals scare me more! Of course, the "dirt" all came from our own property, organically.

I just read an interesting article from Prevention magazine about the 7 foods experts avoid. Pretty interesting. I've linked it.

Deanna

Here is a link that might be useful: Prevention article

I have to constantly prevent myself from giving in to the hand sanitizer thing.
I do use it now, but not all the time. I try to remember to use it in the car after going to the grocery store, but that's about it. I think if I were in a work place where coworkers wiped everything down, I might do that too, although I know it's not the best thing.

My kitchen and house are cluttered but basically clean. I do agree that being too clean is bad. I have an inflammatory bowel disease, ulcerated colitis. It is almost unknown in third world countries. It is increasing in northern Europe, America and Australia. It seems the cleaner we are, the more we get sick.
Donna

When we passed the peace last Sunday...I did a knuckle bump!! Got a couple of grins and a few quizzical looks....but seemed cleaner than a full hand shake!
I volunteer at the grade School...2nd grade....full of snot nosed coughing sneezing kids...
You bet I use sanitizer....as soon as I get outside the door I squirt it all over me!!
Linda C

Aw, Annie, that cough can linger. My husband still has remnants. God love Ashley for being so mindful of everything. The funny thing was that my daughter and husband kind of muddled through it. Me, I rarely get anything, had a fever for eight days. I was looking at Motrin like a junkie waiting for her next fix:) My 16-year old son was shaking running a fever of 103.5 with Motrin, and it was frightening. That said, within 48 hours of Tamiflu, it was gone.

Linda, I like your style. Volunteering with second graders is to be commended, but when the noses are running ... well (trying not to visualize) gold stars for you. Funny about the knuckle bump, my friend's church put hand shaking/peace on hold and instituted something else. They stated in the bulletin "We're passing peace not the germs." I don't know, it sounded more clever when she said it.

Deanna, I have dust bunnies too ... even more so at times. My daughter thought it was "felt" when she was little.

Cathy in SWPA

Oh, the knuckle bump brought Kathy Lee and Hoda's (Today show) rump bump to mind. But somehow I don't think that would go over in Church!! :)

I'll stay off my soap box (no pun intended) but Lindac and quite a few others are right on in my opinion. Mom is OCD (total spastic cleanie. ) but once I got out on my own and on a farm I finally, after a few years, built up my immunities. My kids were "farmunized" and never sick, lived in dirt (mostly outside LOL). Not only the hormones, low dose antibiotic in livestock feed, chemicals, and all those "cides" but one of the biggest problems now is all the GMOÂs. We grow about 90% of all we eat, and mix our own feeds, even grew everything all our stock ate until we got too big to do that. No animal by-products in my critters food. TheyÂre all vegetarians. But itÂs almost impossible to stay away from the GMOÂs. TheyÂve got them in every base food there is Corn, Soy, Canola, Sugar beets (hated to hear that one) potatoes, cotton, etc. It wasnÂt bad enough that they sprayed the "cides" on everything with the slight possibility you could wash some off, now they are genetically splicing it into every cell of the stuff you eat everyday. So that nice low fat, high fiber baked potato you had for supper tonight is chalked full of nice healthy pesticide genes in every bit. Yum. NOT! Sorry about the soap. Got into it anyway.

As for my kitchen. IÂm not embarrassed to have anyone stop in any time. But if you get the magnifying glass or white gloves out, especially before FridayÂs (cleaning day) I may not pass muster for some. I butcher a lot of my own meat and can and freeze a lot of my produce, so I donÂt cross contaminate and am careful to keep things sanitary during harvest time especially. As for the antibiotic soap, germicide stuff, I have very few chemicals I use. In fact IÂm in the process of getting set up to make all my soaps, laundry stuff and cleaners using herbals as disinfectants. They donÂt build germ resistance. I make my own herbal teas and tinctures when I need them. But in the mean time, IÂm like a lot of you, IÂve had more then my peck of dirt and some of it was probably pretty tasty. WhatÂs that 10 second rule somebody told me about? LOL

I know people with spotless kitchens. You probably could perform surgery in them. You know how they do it? They don't cook. One lives off Jenny Criag food (if her microwave breaks, she'll starve to death), two eat out almost every meanl, another skips breakfast, eats lunch out and has dinner at her sister's every night. They all have high-end kitchens. I can't help but wonder why.

Mine's not as clean as my mother's was, but she put nearly the whole family in the hospital with food poisonig at one time or another, and no one has ever gotten sick from anything in my kitchen. I'm careful about food handling and sanitation, but I'm not OCD about it.

Re: the rampant Must Sanitize Everything craze. Does anyone else see the strangeness of exponential increases in sales of these kinds of products in a society where research shows one out of four people do not wash their hands after going to the bathroom? And of those who DO wash, it's estimated that over 40% are not washing adequately. (Waving your hands under cold water w/o any soap for five seconds doesn't do it.)

The last time I cooked was 4 days ago. I don't think I've cleaned the kitchen since.

For me, cleanliness is next to..... nonexistant!

I do run the dishwasher and take out the trash when it festers so bad I can't stand the smell. And I clean the kitchen after boyfriend cleans it for me... he thinks it's OK to wash with cold water (and to use a metal scrubber on plastic juicer parts... grrrrrrr)... of course he also thinks it's OK to pick a dropped olive up off the table at a restaurant and pop it in your mouth, so is cleaning standards are lacking.

I do have sanitizing wipes and a can of Lysol for when I mess with chicken or something. Especially if I had to defrost it.... I have to be sure to get the microwave buttons and faucet handles.

I make sure things are sanitary before I start cooking, but after I cook and before the next time, there's no telling what's going on in my kitchen, and that's if I can even find the counter tops.

"Posted by vacuumfreak (My Page) ------------- of course he also thinks it's OK to pick a dropped olive up off the table at a restaurant and pop it in your mouth, ---"

Hello SousVidefreak (LOL),

This happened to me just a few days ago.

I was with a client in an expensive restaurant for lunch. As I was eating, my fork dropped to the floor. I just picked it up and continued to use it to eat.

After a couple of mouth fulls, a waitress came by, took the fork out from my hand and replaced it with a new one.

I know a restaurantÂs floor can be dirty and I appreciate her attentiveness. If I have to do it again, I will still do the same. Whatever dirty that can get on the fork will not get me sick.

dcarch

Sanitiser businesses would go broke if everyone was like me. My kitchen is reasonably clean, but I don't feel the need to bleach everything in sight and decontaminate after every step. Germ-killing trash liners? I figure I don't go rooting around in the trash to pick up any germs and if they could jump out of there onto the counter under their own steam I could make my fortune. Same with the floor- stuff that falls on the floor stays there until I sweep it up, but if the floor's a little messy that's OK; I have lots of dishes and even a table so no need to eat off the floor.
The article Deanna linked to was interesting in that it said non-organic potatoes (in, I assume, the US) won't sprout as they've been chemically treated not to. We must have different practices here as all potatoes sprout with gay abandon- I once found a whole potato rainforest in DD's cupboard :-)

I was with a client in an expensive restaurant for lunch. As I was eating, my fork dropped to the floor. I just picked it up and continued to use it to eat.

Let us know if that client stays with you. I don't think I would if I ate with someone who did that.

In general, I am with the 'peck of dirt' camp. I do put my sponges/cutting boards in the dishwasher, and am super careful with chicken prep.

Another interesting spin on the topic is what our spouses do (and don't do!). Dcarch, this is your thread, you go first, how does your wife handle your brand of cleanliness.

"------Another interesting spin on the topic is what our spouses do (and don't do!). Dcarch, this is your thread, you go first, how does your wife handle your brand of cleanliness. "

A very worthwhile spin indeed. Everyone feel free to discuss.

First let me say this, because there are several videos I have made, so other than the fact that I am obviously a male, I prefer to keep all the other information private about myself. I will explain further why, if I decide to introduce myself sometime.
I am a very clean person; I just donÂt do the extreme sanitizing thing. I have had extensive contacts with very high-end medical research institutions; I am familiar with germs and viruses. I had been in clean room environments that are so dangerous that if you donÂt take the proper precautions, you will be dead in a few hours.
I use separate cutting boards and utensils for different foods and my tableware are never greasy.
When I serve food to my friends, I make it absolutely clear that I follow their habits, not mine. If they normally bleach everything, boil everything, thatÂs what I will do for them before I serve them.

An off-topic story:
Sometime ago, I had to visit a hospitalÂs electron-microscope facility. I went thru their autopsy room around lunch time. There, in an open room, were five autopsy tables with five stiffs lying there, all opened up, with organs spread out. The stench was indescribable. Yet, seating around these dead bodies were a few technicians eating their roast beef sandwiches. I did have to control a gagging sensation in my throat.
I donÂt know if there is a moral to the story? Many or our cleaning habits are not related to health or detrimental to our health. My own opinion: Most official health recommendations, because of liability, are based on 100% safety and for the weakest segment of the population. If a kid is allergic to peanuts, no one else gets to eat peanuts.

dcarch

dcarch, I'm in law enforcement and medical examiners and officers will often sit around the morgue rooms with an autopsy being performed right next to them and have coffee and a snack. I'm not sure I could, but I don't have any problem with field dressing a deer or cleaning fish and stopping for lunch. It's all what you're used to.

I still wouldn't use that fork though. What's on MY floor and what's on the floor of a public facility are two different things. I don't know whose shoes were there before mine or how long it's been since they cleaned the floor, which is probably carpeted.

Elery? He's about the same as I am. We sweep the floor more than most people, probably because I'm a messy cook, my kitchen floor gets swept sometimes 4 or 5 times a day, LOL. He won't let his dog lick him but he'll let him eat off his fork, go figure. We both wipe up with a mild bleach after cutting up commercially purchased meat or chicken and we both have cutting boards dedicated to cutting chickens. Those boards are plastic and go into the dishwasher.

We'll split a bottle of Diet Coke in the car, share a bite of whatever off our plates. Toothbrushes, now that's where I draw the line. My toothbrush is MINE, and mine alone.

I do agree about the official government health recommendations. They are the same as the canning and food storage standards. Because of liability issues they have to give you advice that will guarantee you won't get sick. Most of us wouldn't get sick anyway, especially from something like eating a strawberry that's been in the fridge 4 days instead of 3 days, or whatever, but that's the recommendation. Better follow it, it's for our own good. Ahem.

Annie

George Carlin had a great routine about fear of germs; he said that he never got sick because as a child he swam in the Hudson river; at that time there was raw sewage in it..He screams, "We were tempered in raw sewage!"

If you google 'george carlin tempered raw sewage' it will direct you to a few transcriptions of that routine. (Caution: strong language)

I thought everyone used the 5 second rule? :)

I am a hand sanitizer and hand washing freak. And I RARELY get sick. However, I think it is more of a genetic thing than anything. My family doesn't get sick often.
And my kitchen...well, I probably wash the countertops at least a dozen times a day. But that is more of an OCD tendency thing, LOL.
I just don't like the feeling of dirty hands and the look of dirty kitchens in my house.

Heh...I know what DH would say to this. I have a kitchen habit that drives him crazy. I have this "thing" abuot dirty dishtoweals and dishclothes. Can't abide them. He'll be cooking, and suddenly, "Where the #### is my towel? I JUST got that towel out of the drawer!" Hey, if I passed by it and it looked less than clean, it went in the hamper.

I spent my early years on a chicken farm where we use to play King of the Mountain on the chicken compost pile. (Now I really feel for my Mom and laundry day. LOL) We use to eat veggies straight out of the garden, just sort of wipe the dirt off. My Mom used to say that too - "we all had to eat a peck of dirt before we die."

I keep my kitchen reasonably clean, but I am not obessive over it. I do try to not cross contaminate and bleach the plastic cutting boards. The counters, floors, and stove top are cleaned on a regular basis.

I don't use hand sanitizer, hate the feel of the stuff, and only wash my hands when I am suppose to, like we were taught when little.
Clare

beanthere dunthat...funny! I am the same way about those dish clothes and towels. Dish clothes are used once....can't stand those smelling things that hang on peoples sink....Yuck about makes me SICK. Towels thrown over peoples shoulders, oh that is just sick and wrong. Do you know how much hair can be on that towel? Or if the towel drops on the floor it's out of here!

Now my kitchen is not spotless. Floor does get swept often. Don't like to have many things on my counter either. My mom and my sisters counters are so full there is no room to cook. If you look over at my cookbook/mixer corner, like someone else posted, yes you will find lots of dust bunnies!

I do use a lot of bleach on the cutting boards and the sink.

No hand sanitzer for me. Soap and warm water and sing Happy Birthday to You twice through. Instead of using cloth towel to dry hands I use a paper towel. I know its not a very green thing to use. But hey I used cloth diapers, not disposable!

Yes, some people have called me Mrs. Clean....no I am not really just appears that way. My neighbor came over once and asked 'If one was to have garbage in this house, were would one put it'. She thinks I am so clean that I dont even have garbage, but if you would see her house! Well I can see why I look like Mrs. Clean compared to her house :)

I'm just a sink full of hot soapy water type here. That's what DM and DGM always used to clean up the kitchen. I'm more carefull with chicken as of late but can say I wasn't way back when and didn't have problems. I do sweep or vacuum the floor but should really mop it more often than I do. Add me to the clean towel group...I change them daily and will use many if I'm really cooking up a storm. I only use bleach for laundry and I think some of my bathroom cleaning products have bleach in them.

I agree with Sherry and think genetics or something comes into play as I don't get sick that much either. I had a 24 hour bug and ran a fever for the first time in years last month. Other than a cold every great now... that's been it for me.

Interesting about the potatoes not sprouting, that has always been a challenge for me with storing them long term if I don't put them in the fridge. Don't even think about using my toothbrush!! I have always had extras for family and friends that ride through the DW after they have used them if they forgot theirs.

David

We've been trying extra hard to keep our kitchen as clean as possible (but no use of bleach or anything that drastic), and we still have fruit flies buzzing about. My thought is that if they aren't dying, then we aren't poisoning ourselves. I do spray the trash can with Windex, which seems to keep the fruit flies down a bit, but I don't know why they just don't leave.

Occasionally we will wash down the countertops with Vodka because I know the fruit flies don't like that. That only works for a short time, however.

Lars

Lars, I remember one summer my grandmother had a fruit fly problem. She got rid of them by making a trap. In a small plastic cup she put a squirt of dishwashing liquid in the bottom, enough water to make it bubble (about 1/4 cup, and a big splash of apple cider vinegar. Then she put plastic wrap over the top, secured with a rubber band. With the end of a toothpick, she'd poke four or five tiny holes in the top, them place the cups where the fruit flies were the worst. Apparently, the flies get in, but can't get out. After a couple days, she'd managed to clear them all out.

You know what freaks me out? The very idea of washing fruit and veges with an antiseptic soap! I've read of people doing it - right here on this forum!

The best I can say about my kitchen is that it's definitely clean under the dirt! It gets a tidy-up and a wipe over on a regular basis, but that's about it. We won't enter the cupboards!! The worst thing about my kitchen is that I have one of those white 'plastic' sinks. Whoever invented those ought to have been drowned at birth. It stains easily, and no amount of bleach or scrubbing on earth will remove those stains. Definitely a turn-off.

Here's a good read for those of you who use bleach.... (I've had the spray bottle of h2o2 in my kitchen for years)

Household Uses Of Hydrogen Peroxide H2O2

Throw out your harmful toxic disinfectants, cleaners, bleaches and insecticides!

Hydrogen peroxide is the only germicidal agent composed only of water and oxygen. Like ozone, it kills disease organisms by oxidation! Hydrogen peroxide is considered the worlds safest all natural effective surface sanitizer. It kills microorganisms by oxidizing them, which can be best described as a controlled burning process. When hydrogen peroxide reacts with organic material it breaks down into oxygen and water.

To freshen kitchen: Keep a spray bottle of 3% solution of hydrogen peroxide in the kitchen. Use to wipe off counter tops and appliances. It will disinfect and give the kitchen a clean, fresh small. Works great in the refrigerator and lunch boxes.

Toothbrush: Soak your toothbrush in 3% hydrogen peroxide between brushings to kill bacteria and stop the passing of sickness to family members

Shower: Keep a spray bottle of 3% hydrogen peroxide in the shower for spraying down the shower to kill bacteria bugs and viruses

In the dish wash/rinse water: Add 2 ounces (or more) of 3% hydrogen peroxide to the regular washing formula to safely sanitize and eliminate the tranmission of colds and diseases.
Washing meat: Use salt and 3% hydrogen peroxide in chilled water for washing fish, chicken or other meat to kill bacteria and viruses.

Cleansing for vegetables and salad greens: Add salt in addition to 1/4 cup 3% hydrogen peroxide to a sink full of cold water. Wash vegetables thoroughly, rinse with cold water and drain. This process prolongs freshness.

Leftover tossed salad: Spray with a solution of 1/2 cup water and 1 tablespoon of hydrogen peroxide. Drain, cover and refrigerate. Eliminates use of chemical preservatives.

Laundry: Add 8 ounces of 3% hydrogen peroxide to your wash in place of bleaches.

Pets: For small animals (dogs and cats) use 1 ounce 3% hydrogen peroxide to 1 quart water for their drinking water and bath.

I wash fruits and veggies to get the pesticides off, not the dirt.

H2O2 id highly reactive, possibly can neutralize some other chemicals?

dcarch

I'm not terribly compulsive about kitchen sanitation, except when it involves raw chicken. Then I'm pretty aggressive about getting it good and clean. I have a stainless steel work surface, and here's my ritual after I've done any work involving raw chicken:

The plastic cutting board goes in the sink,rinsed with hot water, then some antibacterial dish soap gets smeared on it. I let that sit for a while and clean the stainless: a spray of a degreaser such as Simple Green, wiped up, then a spray of surface cleaner such as 409, wiped up, and then so any food that might later contact the stainless doesn't taste of 409, I sprinkle a tablespoon or two of cheap vodka, and wipe that up. If you have all those items readily available it really doesn't take much of an effort. After I'm done with the work surface I rinse off the plastic cutting board with very hot water.

Simple chlorine bleach is an excellent disinfectant even when greatly diluted, but it can react with stainless.

dcarch, I'm not sure what you mean by highly reactive, but I do know that you and I can only purchase it up to about a 30%. The bottles you get in the grocery store are only 3%. A lot of people use this as a 'green' crop spray. I've mixed the 3% in water to spray my tomatoe plants, etc. and it is very effective - and the plants love it. It was also used in early wartime to clean wounds. I wouldn't get carried away and use non-diluted versions. That will give you a nasty burn.

By and far it is much safer to use than bleach! And bleach is reactive to other cleaners. But I wouldn't mix either with other cleaners anyway.

H2O2 is highly reactive in that it can chemically react to many other substances. In its pure form, it is also used as rocket propellant.

Reactive does not mean itÂs poisonous. It is used in many ordinary uses, including bleaching hair, treating wounds, adding oxygen to fish ponds, horticultural uses, etc.

I was just wondering if it might also be able to neutralize some toxic chemicals.

dcarch

I'm not sure that it would 'neutralize' toxic chemicals. Below are a couple of paragraphs to one article that we saved on the controversy between medical professionals when it comes to cures. Somehow it cleanses the blood from what I can determine. You know, the way it bubbles up when put on a wound, it's forcing bacteria out- oxygenating(?) it. It does the same in the blood stream. So it does not seem that would be the same as 'neutralizing'. Interesting idea though. I continue to research it since there is a good chance that it's being 'hushed up' by the money makers.

"HYDROGEN PEROXIDE & HISTORY
Ted from Bangkok tells us, "Yes, the pharmaceuticals are threatened by hydrogen peroxide cures! Last time, about 120+ years ago (during the reign of Queen Victoria), people in India (a British colony then) found that Hydrogen peroxide added in small amounts to drinking water cured a variety of sickness especially colds, flu, cholera, malaria, etc. It threatened the British monopoly drug sales, so they issued a fake news by hiring a news reporter disguised as a doctor to put out the information to the effect that taking hydrogen peroxide causes viral brain damage. It sounded believable, but the child who died of the hydrogen peroxide caused viral brain damage was non-existent.

FOOD GRADE WARNINGS:
4/18/2006: John from Sault Ste Marie, MI writes, "I'd be very wary of recommending that anyone use 35% hydrogen peroxide unless they've had HAZMAT training or the equivalent. At that concentration H2O2 is extremely corrosive and causes severe burns; in other words, it's a very hazardous chemical that even professional chemists (and I am one) must handle using appropriate safety equipment (rubber gloves, safety goggles, protective lab coat). I know this from experience because I was badly burned by 35% H2O2 while carrying out chemistry research. It's irresponsible to imply that this stuff is harmless and to recommend it to people who have no experience handling hazardous materials."

I'm looking for the main author of the article - it's very lengthy. Lots of controversy on the health issue side of it. And as always, money seems to be the cause of the controversy.

I am definitely not a clean freak, though my kitchen looks respectable. BUT, I worry when friends are casual with industrial agriculture raised raw ground beef and chicken. The former could very likely harbor virulent strains of E. coli (not to be found in the grass fed, grass finished beef I buy) and the latter almost certainly has very high levels of salmonella and campylobacter, again very low levels in the pastured poultry I buy.
These infectious agents are directly due to the production methods of industrialized agriculture and huge slaughter facilities that operate around the clock. Locally raised and slaughtered animals are much safer and cleaner, and tests have repeatedly shown that to be true.

Also, the over use of antibacterial soaps presents as much danger to us as does the overuse of antibiotics, and for similar reasons.