JoAnn, I think this will answer your questions about Camilla.

Here is a link that might be useful: Camilla's titles

I don't understand it either. I'm conflicted about "royalty" being made someone superior just by accident of birth.

Isn't Camilla an "also ran"?

o j

Royalty is all about privileges.

I consider Camilla a sidekick.

I don't understand this royalty inbreeding stuff but some things I've picked up:

A prince is either a son of a monarch or a close male relative of a monarch, hence, William and Henry (aka "Harry") are both princes being Charles' (alleged) sons and Phillip gets the title being married to Liz.

Similarly a princess is the daughter. Liz and her siblings were born each a princess and then she became Queen. Diana became a princess when she married Charles.

Now there's a monkey wrench thrown in here. Theoretically Kate should be a princess since she married a prince, right? Wrong. Prince William's wife Kate will now be called Her Royal Highness the Duchess of Cambridge and not Princess Kate.

And those crazy Brits pay for this confusion! To each their own! We don't have a monopoly on everything do we? I think it might come from driving on the wrong side of the road and steering wheels on the wrong side. :) *Now* who's going to to claim to be "offended" first?

Here is a link that might be useful: Why Prince William's wife will not be called as Princess Kate

Wow, that really does get complicated. Who makes up these rules? I emailed my friend in England and she couldn't make it plain either.

I'm pretty sure she's Princess Kate *Katherine, AND the Dutchess of Cambridge. Just as Diana was Princess Diana and The Dutchess of Wales.

Vickey-MN

I aree she should be called princess especially since Camilla is, though she won't use the Princess of Wales title out of deference to the late Diana, for which I give her credit.

And apparently "Princess Di" was incorrect, although it was dubbed by the media. Her title was actually Her Royal Highness Diana, Princess of Wales until the divorce when she was stripped of the HRH.

So they are not Princess Di and accordingly not Princess Kate since they take their title from the husbands. (Where are all the feminists? LOL)

From the link below:
"Prince William's current title is Prince William of Wales. Under the rules of British titles, his wife would be styled Princess William of Wales. Not Princess Catherine, not The Princess of Wales, and especially not "Princess Kate." (The thought process is the same as it is for the wife of John Smith being formally called Mrs. John Smith.) This is assuming of course, Grandmama, the Queen, does not give William any additional titles in time for the wedding."
William was given a Dukedom by Elizabeth though so she is now also a Duchess.

Just found this:
"The official title of the former Catherine Middleton is Her Royal Highness The Duchess of Cambridge, according to the statement issued by Queen Elizabeth's press secretary today."

It also clarifies: "Calling a woman "Princess So-and-So" is reserved for royal-born women." So that's why Princess Elizabeth was proper, Princess Di, Princess Kate and Princess Camilla would be incorrect. That does not however explain "Prince Phillip" unless that's another media title.

It's interesting how a woman can marry the King and become a Queen, but a man can't marry a Queen and become King. Of course it's because Kings are "higher" in rank so to speak, but it's an interesting thing, especially in these times of so much political correctness.

But I can't really find the title changes that would happen for instance on the following:
- Elizabeth dies, then Charles becomes King, and Camilla is Queen.
- Charles dies. I realize Camilla cannot become head of state and rule so therefore William becomes King. Does Camilla then forfeit the Queen title to Kate and revert to Princess or does she retain her Duchess of Cornwall title? I don't recall history enough on it nor do I know the royalty rules.

Like I said, I'll never figure them oot!

Here is a link that might be useful: 'Princess Kate' Title is Technically Incorrect

Cynic, Philip was a Prince of Greece when he married the Queen. I agree its very complicated! lol

Karen UK

"And those crazy Brits pay for this confusion!"

NOT so crazy Brits.
The payments to the monarchy for support are paid out of proceeds from the Crown Estate...personal property given to parliament by King George III in exchange for an annual grant.
The annual expense to maintain the monarchy is ~38 million pounds...this out of an annual income from the Estate of ~300 million pounds.

I *think it's just that one can only be BORN a Prince or Princess. (As was Philip.)

Isn't it "Queen Elizabeth" and "Prince Philip"? He is not King of England; he is the queen's consort. So...why is the King of England's wife called Queen: Queen Elizabeth's father was King George VI and his wife was Queen Mary.

Seems a woman can become Queen by marriage, but a man cannot become King. ??? Queen Vistoria's consort was Prince Albert. Henry VIII had a succession of six Queens.

I wonder if it has something to do with my first statement. Perhaps an heir cannont be a Prince or Princess unless born of a Queen?

I'm going to change my last guess.

Perhaps the king's wife must be titled a queen so that ALL of her descendents may be titled princes and princesses?

(All of the children of a queen and all of THEIR descendents are titled princes and princesses -- not just the *immediate* heirs to the throne.)

This may be akin to ancient Jewish law in which one can only be a Jew if born of a Jewish mother. The reasoning was that the maternity was obvious, whereas the paternity could not be proven.

I was wondering about some of this the other day. From what I gathered, some of the titles are inherited through birth, some are bestowed because of position, and some titles simply are not given because it wouldn't be popular.

I can't find the link right now, but there was some discussion on the House of Windsor and the "last names" of the royal family. Apparently, they had German names because the Windsor line is German. The name was changed to "Windsor" because the Germans were not popular at the time of the world wars. Prince Philip is a prince by birth and there was an issue of him being named King and therefore having a higher rank than the Queen. There was also some sort of issue with his linage being at least partially German and "foreign" born. It would not have been popular at the time to give him a higher title than prince.

I think I also read that most likely Camilla would be given a lesser title than Queen because she's divorced and the issue of Diana. Camilla would not be a popular choice for queen.

Katherine is not a princess in her own right, she is Princess William of Wales, not Princess Katherine. Just as Princess Michael of Kent is the wife of Prince Michael or Kent. Diana was not Princess Diana, she was HRH Diane, the Princess of Wales. When Charles becomes King (and Camilla Queen Consort) William will become the Prince of Wales and Katherine will be Princess of Wales, but she will still not be Princess Katherine. In GB (may be different in other countries) who is a prince or princess or very limited, generally in direct line to the regent (Prince Michael of Kent is a grandchild of a former King). You basically have to be born with it unless they do a letter patent (basically, special rule). Incidentally, Camilla is the Princess of Wales whether she chooses to use the title or not. She has chosen to use one of Charles' lesser titles. I'm writing this from memory, so please forgive small errors.

karenmay, that explains it. Thanks for clearing that up!

I can't remember where I was reading it, but I thought I read that as an example, if Charles becomes King, Camilla does *not* automatically become Queen, rather, Charles would have to bestow that title upon her. Is that accurate?

Now, can anyone address the other hypothetical question? That is, *if* Charles becomes King, and Camilla becomes Queen, and Charles should die, would Camilla forfeit the title of Queen? Or would William (or whoever) have to strip her of the title in order to give the title to Kate?

TDC (too dang complicated) for a simple mind like mine! :)