Finnie, that is such good news that you can bring Jack home! I bet his sister will be so happy too.

Kate

Runsnwalken, you are blaming the dog's illness on bad breeding and predicting dire and hopeless outcomes--and the dog hasn't even been diagnosed yet.

Exactly.

Finnie, I am so sorry to hear about what you have been through with losing a loved one, and now the problems with Jack. I am thrilled to hear that he is on his way home now, though! You are all in my prayers.

I have never posted here before, and I have registered with gardenweb.com only to answer you!

To begin with, I am a Vet Tech and an animal lover. While so many "animal lovers" are anti-breeders; the fact of the matter is that there are many very good and ethical breeders in the world. Jodik sounds like one, and Jodik provided you with a lot of good information. Anyone can do some research, starting with AKC.org and see that the entire POINT of breeding purebreds is to IMPROVE the breed. Like Jodik said, ethical breeders usually do not make much money; most of their money goes back into the care of their animals. While it is true that there certainly are puppy-mills in existence, this is not always the case, and runswalken obviously does not have much knowledge in this area.

And I have to address runswalken here, as well. First of all, you simply do not have much experience or knowledge in the area of animal care or veterinary medicine. Since someone asked us to not delve further into this subject under this thread; I will respect that. But the first idea behind veterinary medicine is that "Where there is LIFE, there is HOPE." So, no DVM in the world would recommend euthanasia for a puppy such as Jack. To begin with, Jack is young and otherwise healthy (from what I understand). Secondly, seizures are simply NOT a critical issue for a young dog; generally Phenobarbital or similar medicines can regulate seizures, this is not usually a life-threatening issue once the cause is diagnosed. Third, to be quite honest, you seem to be a very unhappy and negative person. I really can not believe the way in which you responded to Finnie's issue. She obviously is in need of intellectual advice and emotional support. You gave her incorrect and bad advice and responded in a negative, rude, and ugly manner. I am so sorry that you are such a sad and miserable human being, but that is really no reason to go around trying to hurt others during a time of pain and stress. Shame on you, but you will be in my prayers....it must really be sad to be YOU. But hopefully in the future you will learn to keep your negativity to yourself.

Finnie, I hope you were able to ignore runswalken, and I'm sorry that someone was mean enough to talk to you that way.

Please keep us posted on Jack; he and Jill are in my prayers!

I just saw this post and am so glad to see that Jack can come home. I hope that whatever the cause of his seizures can be corrected and he has a long happy healthy life with you and Jill.

I'm happy that Jack is better, I'm sorry for making bad guesses, but you did make it seem very dire and grave to us. Having what he had agan and again seemed to me like bad gentics, which there is no cure, meds can help control it but if its gentics there is nothing that will wipe out the problem without meds. I didnt mean to make people on here believe I was bad I was just concerned. I would report this to the breeder none the less so jacks lines can be watched more cosely.

I was honest in part on purebreds but I'm sure more and more breeders are aiming for health as well as to the standard but such a dog is very expensive most of what a purebred is in the real world, is the bad lines you see in newspapers, as these are where sadly the biggest market is, very few people are going to spend 2/or 3 grand on a purebred with outstanding health if they can get a $30 puppy in the newspaper thats better looking,cuter,ect.

Finnie,

I am so sorry to read of little Jack's difficulties, but I'm very relieved that the vet feels he's stable enough now to come home. That's great news!

I can'thelp but think that Jack's seizures may be the result of poisoning. Puppies are so eager to put everything into their mouths that they are very susceptible to poisoning if they get into the wrong thing. And so much around our homes is toxic: household cleaners, lawn and garden chemicals, etc. It's so easy to overlook a potential toxin since they are so prevalent in our daily lives.

I don't suppose you used any sort of flea product on him lately? Spot-on, spray, powder, dip, collar, shampoo? Quite a few of the retail store flea products are highly toxic and have been implicated in the serious illness or death of many dogs and cats.

In any event, Jack's condition has obviously improved dramatically, so HAPPY DAY!!!

Please do keep us updated on his condition and on any further information you receive from your vet.

All the best,

Laurie

Please tell us how he's doing. I was wonderng the same thing..You haven't used any flea collars or Hartz MT. products on him recently, have you? I'm really glad he's home and I hope to stay.

runswalken: Having what he had agan and again seemed to me like bad gentics, which there is no cure, meds can help control it but if its gentics there is nothing that will wipe out the problem without meds.

Runs...again this is incorrect information... A gene gives only the potential for the development of a trait. How the potential is achieved depends partly on the interaction of the gene with other genes, but it can also depend on the environment, such as in a case where seizures may be caused by an allergy to something. Change the offending agent and many times you stop the seizure activity for life and no meds are ever needed.

First of all... I'm glad to hear that your pup can come home. That's a good sign. I doubt the doctor would release him if he thought the pup wasn't ready to go.

Second... Half of any living thing is genetic, and the other half is environmental. Certain genes, or combination of genes, or lack thereof, can make a living thing predisposed to many conditions... many times brought on by its environment.

Begin with solid, clean genetics... add a healthy environment... and you have the best there is, whether it's a cat or dog or a horse or a monkey... or even a human being.

It is my hope that the cause of Jack's seizures is something in his environment, something that can be changed for his benefit. I wish him well...

Whiskeyriver - since you're new to this forum, just wanted to share some information regarding runsnwalken. This information was just posted yesterday about him/her:

Hi Folks,
Our regulars may remember that Runsnwalken has Autism and is thinking about moving to a group home. Here is her/his post about it:

"Going over Raw and no DE-clawing with a Group home?
Posted by runsnwalken (My Page) on Sun, Mar 9, 08 at 12:39
I live in St paul MN and among other things have Autism (mild) and must move into a group home setting in a few years time, However I worry they wont allow me to take my two cats, (Bindi and Leopaorn) or worse require me to De claw them, something I WILL NOT do. Also one of my cats, a Somali is on a raw diet How do you think I can smooth things out with them so he can stay on raw and both can keep their claws?. "

(Nancy again):
Even mild Autism will mean that runswalken will have great difficulty reading emotional content in others and responding in a polite manner. Keeping this in mind can soften our perceptions of him/her as rude. The writen word also makes comments like his/hers have more impact. Just as we try to be supportive of each other when we go through difficult times with our pets, we may want to give our forum-mate runswalken some leeway and try using gentle corrections when he/she gets out of line.

Hi all,
I saw the discussion getting hotter and hotter in this thread. When I saw the thread talking about the Animal Debates forum I decided to do a search, thinking I remembered Runswalken telling us of his/her Autism. I thought that this information would help others to not pay as much attention to the style of the posts of our forum-mate, Runswalken, and not feel hurt if these posts seem harsh.

Runswalken, feel free to click on "my page" next to my name on this entry and tell me what you think of me reminding our forum friends of what you told us. I thought by reminding them of this, feelings would calm. I care about how you feel about this, too.

Finnie, I am sorry your little dog was so ill and I hope that he continues to improve. I hope that this information about our forum-friend's disability helps you to feel less hurt about the criticisms aimed at you.

HI Everyone - I've had a very busy day with Jack & Jill so I'm just getting on now. Thank you so much to everyone who responded to this post - I really appreciate you all and your thoughts. Well Jack is home and I have to say he is very, very different than the pup I had last week. Because of the meds (Luculose for the liver, phenobarb and sodium bromide for seizures and convulsions and flagyl for intestinal) he is very different. Waks continuously, I'm talking non-stop, until he's so tired he lays down, he gets himself under furniture and in corners, won't play at all, seems sort of to recognize me, but the only thing that stayed the same is his love for Jill, he constantly kisses and cuddles her like he used to. So sweet it makes me cry. I called the Dr and he said what he is doing is to be expected because of the meds - but it's heartbreaking to watch. I want my old Jack back, but I love him no matter what. When I picked him up the Dr said they are still waiting for the tests to come back and I think they believe his problem is brain related. They haven't run the brain tests because he's so young that they want to leave that till last. I will keep you posted and thank you again for your thoughts and prayers for all of us!

I apologize if this has been addressed already, haven't gone back & re-read all the posts, but...

If your vet hasn't checked Jack's thyroid, please insist that he do so *at once*.

I wish you the best.

I think he may have had another seizure a few minutes ago - he was staring at me on the phone and then he just stopped and took off running right at the wall. He's fine now, I am keeping a ledger on when and how long he has them. I don't have a very good feeling about this - what if it is his brain - how can he live like this? I can't bear the thought of not having him - I will try and keep positive, but when I see him go thru this it scares me.

Ah finnie, I am sending out as many good wishes and prayers as I can.....

Dogs can live very happily with epilepsy, and other neurological disorders. If humans can do it (and I have epilepsy so I do), then dogs can as well. The brain of an animal or human is a wonderous thing. Perhaps Jack might be a little different than the typical puppy, but that doesn't mean he won't develop other special qualities that will make him even more endearing.

But, I agree with the poster who suggested that you check to make sure that he didn't get into anything. Several years ago, one of my dogs almost died because of cheap grocery store flea repelled. She went into kidney failure, and was hospitalized for days receiving fluids, meds, etc. She was on a special diet for months afterwards, and it took her almost a year to get back to where she was before. But, she recovered.

Finnie, I am so sorry, I know how hard it must be for you to watch what Jack is going through. I don't have any advice except to say that we are all rooting for you and Jack and would give the world if we could make him whole and well for you. No matter what happens, Jack is loved.

Kate

Might I also suggest keeping both dogs on a natural diet... not vegetarian... just natural, meaning no additives, chemicals, preservatives or fillers.

As I mentioned, my husband and myself are breeders... we're semi-retired and only keep a few dogs currently. Over the years, we've fed many different types of dog food... and we always get the best results with the most natural products. We fed Abady for many years, and though costly, it's the best food available, in our opinion.

Regardless of how great a product claims to be, it must be remembered that pet products are aimed at sales to the pet owners... packaging, flavors, colors, kibble sizes, can labels, gravies, mixes, etc... all aimed at getting us to buy it, but not very healthy for our pets.

Our dogs eat purely for survival. They eat for the nutritional value, and don't care about all the things manufacturers do to make a product palatable or salable. Most labels on dog foods, when deciphered, read like chemical horror stories! I'd be willing to lay down money that there are chemicals contained in many feeds that could actually cause seizures to a very predisposed animal.

Currently, we make our own food for our dogs. We haven't bought commercial feed in years, and I see a huge difference in the health of our dogs. Not everyone has the knowledge or wherewithall to make their own dog feed, but everyone can, and should, research carefully before buying and feeding what the current market has to offer.

Keeping your dogs free of chemical food additives and preservatives will certainly help keep them healthy, so please take care what you feed them.

Diet is only one piece of the puzzle, but it might help.

Thank you all for your contiued advice and prayers. As far as I know Jack didn't get into anything. But, I was given Frontline from the Vet when I took them at 8 weeks because they had fleas when I got them. Now I wonder if the breeder used something beforehand, I'll call him but I bet he says No anyway. The Frontline was dosed for their size and age so I don't think that was it. We're going today to the regular Vet for shots (for Jill, not Jack today) but I will bring Jack and have him checked. He seems much more playful after that scary staring incident last night, although I do notice he does not like to be touched or held. Also, Jill is getting more and more playful (aggressive) with him, so I have to watch that too. Oh well, one day at a time, I do love them so and they make me smile and cry at the same time. I want Jack to get better or for me to get the patience and wisdom to handle him as a "special needs" dog. I will never give up unless I'm told it's better for him - but I sincerely hope that doesn't happen.

BTW - the bromide in my above post is potassium bromide, not sodium bromide as I wrote - sorry about that.

Thanks.
Mary

I thought I would update you all on Jack. I'm still waiting for the last liver test results, should be in today. I told the Vet that Jack was having alot of the little seizures now. He probably was having them and I wasn't catching them, because I was looking for the grand mal seizures which started all this. They last for about 30 secs to 1 minute, he'll sit quietly, look around for a while, stare at me, then when he comes out of them he shakes himself off and starts running around like crazy! It's heartbreaking to watch and I can't help but wonder what each one does to him. I just pick him up and hold him for a while after he's done running. The Dr said if the liver test comes back negative, he would be very concerned that there is a brain abnormality and because there are so many things to test for it might be impossible to pinpoint. I'm really hoping it is the liver only because we can at least find a resolution and he can go on. I can't imagine what I would do if the Dr thought it was best to put Jack down...he's so sweet and he loves his mommy and Jill so much. We need our Jack to stay with us. Please keep us in your prayers.

Mary, just to elaborate on Sylvia's question re. thyroid testing, here's some info (I linked the website below):

"Another interesting association which has been increasing in frequency is the link between thyroid dysfunction and aberrant behavior. Typical clinical signs include unprovoked aggression towards other animals and/or people, sudden onset of a seizure disorder in adulthood, disorientation, moodiness, erratic temperament, periods of hyperactivity, hypo-attentiveness, depression, fearfulness and phobias, anxiety, submissiveness, passivity, compulsiveness, and irritability. After the episodes, a majority of the animals were noted to behave as if they were coming out of a trance- like state and were unaware of their previous behavior."

Here is a link that might be useful: Thyroid Dysfunction and Seizures

Mary,
Please ask your vet if thyroid blood tests were run. If it wasn't insist. Sylvia knows about this.

Does anyone else here remember the day a few years ago when someone posted from Canada (or was it the northern US?) that she was waiting for a ride to take her dog to the vet to be put down for a terrible medical problem? Sylvia was online and posted to the thread, telling the lady to get the thyroid tested. Well, the lady had walked away from the computer and was not planning to log on again, but her ride was late. She checked her thread, read Sylvia's posting, and demanded the thyroid testing before she would agree to do euthanasia. Sylvia was right. She saved that dog's life that day, with the magic of the web and our dear Spike, who started THS and ran it on his own until iVillage bought it.

Sylviatexas has remained a hero in my heart since that day.

Petra/Nancy - I ready your emails and I just now called the Dr and left a voicemail asking if he ran any tests on Jack's thyroid - we'll see what he says - thanks for reminding what Sylvia suggested I do. The Dr called last night and confirmed that the liver is not the culprit and infectious disease is out. So, to his and my great concern, it looks like a brain problem. He is too young for an MRI right now, so he increased his meds (he had 2 small seizures within 1/2 hr) and we will treat him with meds for now until he is old enough for an MRI. I'm not sure exactly what in the brian he is looking at, he did mention a possible malformation in the brian, and early on he mentioned water on the brain. We have an appt to see the Dr on Sunday to go over the options. Maybe I'm being too pessimistic (too soon), but can anyone honestly tell me if they would consider putting this puppy down if it were them? I don't want this sweet guy to have a life in a trance from drugs or seizures, but am I being selfish to want to just keep him any way I can? I just love him so much I can't bring myself to be realistic I'm afraid. As always I appreciate your advice, wisdom, knowledge and prayers - I can't thank you guys enough!

Mary

Mary, for now let's just hope it's a simple issue, like the thyroid. If so, that should be easy to solve.
Here's another link re. which diagnostic should be done for dogs with seizure disorder.

Here is a link that might be useful: DIAGNOSTIC WORK-UP FOR DOGS WITH SEIZURES

I know you feel so hopeless right now, but I wouldn't give up yet. Our old gal Bessie started having seizures when she was about 9 months old. We never did find the exact cause even with all the diagnostics that were done. She lived her entire life on seizure meds. At first it was frustrating getting the dosage correct, but once we found the correct dosage, she adjusted well. She did have petite seizures once in a great while even with the med's, but the med's did stop the grand mals. She enjoyed her life immensely and lived to the age of 15.

Good Luck,
Linda

Thanks Linda - it's nice to hear about Old Bessie. Did you ever feel that Bessie was getting aggressive before she adjusted to her meds? I'm thinking Jack may be getting a little more aggressive with Jill - and I don't like to see that. I know that he may not be able to help it - but I don't want Jill to get hurt because of it. I'm not sure if he's more aggressive or just wants to play more. He averaged about 2 seizures an hour last night, and had two this morning before I left for work...so to me they seem to be getting worse. I called the hospital last night and they said it would get better as his body adapts to the increased meds, but I thought it would be better by now, the Dr increased the meds on Tuesday (.2cc more of the phenobarb). Did you go thru this with Bessie?
Thanks for you help.

Finnie, has the THYROID TEST been done?

If not, get it done NOW.

I lost Sunny in part because, by the time the vet thought to check, she had *no* thyroid hormone in her body, & the constant seizures had damaged her brain.

PLEASE do this;
go to your vet's office & demand, in a loud voice, to know the results of the test, to know why the *#LL the test hasn't been done, etc.

PLEASE DO IT NOW.

DITTO!!!

Don't continue with meds without knowing that his Thyroid has been checked (I don't mean stop them, I mean before your vet wants to fiddle anymore with meds get the thyroid test done).

I would not allow any more go on without the thyroid test. It seems to be possible culprit and to treat the symptoms and put off an accurate diagnosis can do more harm than good. The meds may help prevent seizures but may also be damaging to the underlying cause of the seizures. Its important to treat the symptoms for the comfort and safety of the pup but I'd be pushing for a diagnosis so please rule out his thyroid before its too late.

I'm standing by while my parents dog gets worse and feel angry because they are letting things go and just taking one vet's word that he's old and this is life. My brother won't support me and Jessie can't even stand to poop anymore. If it was my parents I'd get a second opinion and I wish they'd do the same for him but sadly the way things are going I don't think he'll be with us much longer. The glucosamine I suggested at the vet showed a small but immediate improvement which, to me, meant there might be more that can be done for him but my parents won't listen to me and my brother has told me to mind my own business. My cat will never, EVER, see the inside of that vet's clinic. And I've accepted that his fate is not in my hands and all my words fall on deaf ears. Vets are human and can make mistakes, they're not perfect. But enough people here have provided enough support that a Thyroid test should be done and I wouldn't put it off any longer.

And if you've already had it done then disregard my post. I'm just frustrated at seeing a wonderful pet wither away from inactivity or more accurately the wrong activity that I don't want to see another animal suffer because an owner put all their faith into the vet who could easily have missed something while trying to stabilize an animal.

Finnie, Bessie didn't s how any signs of aggression, but she was an only dog during that time. Having raised several puppies this past year, what you are probably seeing is just Jack and Jill playing harder together, but I am certainly no expert. Please find out about the thyroid test.

Linda

I called the vet the other day and demanded a thyroid test. He doesn't think it will be the problem, because Jack's so young, but if that's what I want he will do it. I go on Sunday and will demand he do the test then. Jack actually went 1 hr and then 2 hrs without a seizure last night. The vet told me to stop trying to squirt the meds in his mouth and missing sometimes and put the meds in some yogurt. Well, that did the trick. He scarfs the yogurt right up and hopefully it seems to be working. I guess I wasn't getting enough into him. This morning he had one 5 minutes after I got up, then another one 55 minutes later. Jack and Jill play alot and a nurse told me that the more active Jack is, the quicker the meds are absorbed and may not stay in him system long enough until his next doses in 12 hrs. So I'm continually pulling them apart and they look at me like I'm a real "meanie Mom." My neighbor, thank God, has an older shih tzu that comes in the yard every night to play with Jill and runs and runs her ragged so she gets her exercise. As soon as they are leash trained they will start going on walks...that should be fun. A neighbor gave me the number of another vet who is a friend of hers and I asked him about Jack's situation, but he wasn't too hopeful that Jack can live with having so many seizures at this young age - kinda wished I'd never called him. I'm trying to hold on to every bit of hope I can get. I started telling Jack he's going to be my "miracle puppy" because me and Jill need him and love him so much!

Thank you for the advice on the thyroid test - I will keep you all posted.

Mary

Why is this test not being done right now?

I cannot stress it enough:

*Time is of the essence*.

If this vet can't/won't get the test done before your pet has brain-destroying seizures for nearly 3 more days, *find another vet who will*.

I took Jack to the neurologist yesterday. He found that he has limited vision in his left eye - so we may be dealing with something in the left side of the brain causing the seizures. He wants to wait another month to do the MRI, wants him older and bigger. So for now he stays on meds to control the seizures - he's averaging 1 an hour - which is not acceptable. He did say that he is having the "focal" seizures which does not cause brain damage - so I'm glad about that. So we will look to see what's going on in the brain and hopefully it can be treated, if not he will be on meds to control the symptoms and I will love him and take care of him as long as I can. The Dr was great, he sat right on the floor with Jack so he could really watch him and give him a good looking over. I have to take a video of one of his seizures so the Dr can see what he's doing.

I also had the thyroid test done as a few people here suggested. Even though the Dr doesn't think that the thyroid is invloved, I insisted on it and he did it. So we'll see what happends with that. The considerations are that maybe there is water on the brain, the creases in the brain are not forming, some type of cortal(?) damage, or a rare neurological disease. He is also waiting for a test to come back on perhaps a rare disease that would not show up on a metabolic screening. So we have a ways to go, but Jack's as happy as any puppy could be. He's just happy to be with his mommy and sissy Jill. He's gaining weight and getting big and enjoying his life - just as it should be. I bought them their Halloween costumes - Jack's a pumpkin and Jill's a little devil...

Thanks to all to have helped me - and I will certainly keep you all posted on Jack's progress.

Animals can't talk so sometimes we have to rely on our pet owner community for advise when one has heard of something similar with other animals.

Why not do the test? Kudos to you for being your own advocate. I know it's sometimes not easy to stand up in the face of medical professionals.

I know my vet was incredulous about Bindi having an electric shock. But we still gave her therapy, using a sling and making her walk and get moving, that was from advice of you guys here, plus my neighbor, who echoed the thought that it could have been shock.

And we went from being inches away from euthanasia to having our kitty back.

finnie, I am so sorry to hear about your beloved puppy. I am hoping and praying for the best for all of you. It sounds like just about every possibility for his seizures has been covered in here, but one thing came to mind and it may not help one iota. You said you checked everything in the house for something he could have eaten or gotten into. I was wondering.....what about outside? Did you, or maybe a neighbor, spray anything around the house, on the lawn for weeds, bugs, etc? Just a thought. I'm desperately thinking about what it could be.
One more thing, you said he was getting a little aggressive with Jill. Are they just trying to determine who the Alpha dog is? I have litter mate sisters, 8 yrs old, and they still seem to forget who the top dog is. LOL. Every once in awhile they have a 'go around' to settle the question. Bless their hearts, they haven't figured out that I'M the boss around here. Yeah, right. I also have worried about something happening to one of them---the other one would be devastated, along with me.
But, please keep us posted on what is going on. Again, I am hoping for the best for all of you. I will be watching for the results. BT

trekaren - I'm so glad Bindi is doing much better, I hope everything continues to go well for all of you.

BT - you're funny! I didn't think of the Alpha dog thing...yeah I'm the BOSS in my house too...sure I am.

Mary

It does not surprise me a bit that its part of the brain, when you breed for curtain trait gradually over time you breed out the genetic vigor, ( note this is an example to compare wolves with dogs, compairing people instead, pretend the normal people are the wolves the disabled ones the dogs, they are both the same species but gradually things differ )

Its kind of like.. say , if humans all the sudden had a terrible idea/ yet fasionable at the time of only allowing mentally retarded people with brain injuries/ or very low IQ's or drooling behaviors to reproduce to encourage that behavior because we think its cute or nice that all the kids are not going to be smart enough to challenge the teachers in the community, all the normal humans are kicked out of this, ( we don't neuter/spay most humans so this is my way of saying that) On and on the teachers do this over hundreds of years, creating worse and worse brain IQ's cases of retardation, the very frontal lobes begin to decay, or stunt and the humans begin to display deformed features like huge eyes or floppy ears soon we have humans that can never live on their own, can never say words or speak correctly, and you must choose between one thats the latest line of retarded stock or get one with a scrap of missed bred out IQ,

Will one do you think will have the least health problems?

THANKFULLY this will NEVER happen and it seemed bezare for me to mention this, nor am I compairing people to animals or it was a bad idea to tame the dog but I did state this so for a reason, purebred dogs are mutants, much more so then mutts..

Therefore with this doggie, jack, you will always have issues, and he will live a shorter life, its not anything you did nor anything you can help. Enjoy him while you can and as long as he isn't suffering he will get as used to the fits as putting a collar on, he'll never know why he shakes and falls but unless you can get, half/part of his already mutated brain removed ( has worked in humans they just remove the part that shakes and quivers leaving the normal part alone) it isn't going to improve. I don't know if they can even do this operation on dogs and in humans it has issues with speech and language, memory/ect, the head will fill with spinal fluid were the missing brain is. Its probably very pricey can kill your dog or cause even worse lasting problems. If things do not improve or if he gets worse and If I were you I'd painlessly end jacks suffering rather then take out brain parts like this.

Runsnwalken - are you a veterinarian?

My little mutt also had this. She wasn't a purebreed or close by any means - these things can just happen. Mitsy would shake, cry a little fall over and then bounce back up like nothing happened. Mitsy was the runt of the litter and was probably no more than 8 lbs. We assumed it was epilepsy. She did live to be about 16 and was put down to old age and not from her condition. She was my childhood cutie. Hope your little one is doing well.

Any word on the thyroid test?

runswalken, there are all kinds of causes for neurological problems - as I just went through, it could be anything from a toxic bug bite to a toxic plant (as we've seen on the other threads) to chewing thru an electrical cord to a tumor or stroke (although the latter are rare in an animal so young). Most of the time the root cause will never be known.

Wish the critters could communicate with us sometimes! It would make these illnesses so much easier!!!

It's hard enough with humans - ever watch that new TLC show about ER stories? The docs are almost guessing most of the time even when humans are involved.

No I'm not a vet, but I have read various books on the matter, Dr pitcharins natural health for dogs and cats, Animals in translation by temple grandian.

Plus I have seen purebred dogs who wouldn't obey and run crazy around the house, VS really nice placid mutts. Note both the dogs were improperly excercised at the time of study. TV shows of purebreds with hip trouble. ECT.

Most of us are not vets.

However dispite my dark thoughts of his future I DO hope Jack is doing well and will live as close to a normal life as possible.

No offense runsnwalken but you remind me of a commercial where this actor from a soap opera is endorsing some health product and says 'I may not be a Doctor, but I play one on TV'.

You crack me up.

When people know stuff its natural to try and inform others.

**Note I hestiate to post here, I dont like arguements because I feel they detract from the issues the OP has posted about, and most of all they seem to be just a difference of opinion, but in this situation (and a couple of others) I just can not sit by while someone decides they are the end all in the subject.
runswalken, you may know "STUFF" but your stuff is just that, stuff. Like junk food, junk science, junk business, junk investing and junk bonds, it is junk. Your "information" is woefully inaccurate and in need of some fine tuning. While some overbred dogs are more suseptible to genetic faults and difficulty, some are absolutely one hundred percent healthy and while mutts can have a stronger genetic make up, they can also be just as plagued with problems. Mine is one. I have a bull mastiff husky mix, upright back legs means $8K in corrective surgery, and life long issues with everyday running, jumping and playing and chronic pain. If you want to inform others get the whole facts dont just spout part of the whole truth. Like sweetchastity wrote, it is like you took a first aid class and are now feeling proficient in medicine. Genetics is a intensely complex field, still not completely without mystery to those in the field and for you to jump to conclusions about breeding animals by one medical episode (ie a seizure) without considering a specific animals (ie the OPs dogs) genetic lineage is just junk or stuff. Please educate yourself on the stuff you feel you naturally want to inform people about before you inform them. I am all for people educating people and people sharing what they know to be true and helping others, I love this forum and love it more when people and their pets will be living better lives for coming to this forum to post their problems, concerns, cares or issues with their pets. I can not stand the aspect of this forum where people looking for assistance get berated by those posting here. I hope the OPs dog is much better and that the pup can live as normal a life as possible - looks like the vet never considered the option of having the pup put down. I guess that vet really knows his or her stuff....

I justed wanted to update you all that the thyroid test came back negative (which the Dr thought it would, but I wanted no stone unturned). So now we will wait and get the brain MRI done next month. Jack continues with the seizures, some days better than others, but he is just so sweet and cuddly - I hope he can make it - it would break my heart to have to put him down and how can I have a Jill without a Jack???? The neurologist has not mentioned putting Jack down, but he did say we have to see what shows up on the MRI and then I can decide my next step. As always, I Thank You everyone for your thoughts and prayers for me, Jack & Jill.

Mary

Finnie, I'm so sorry to read about your saga with Jack :( I've been going through a lot of health problems with my older animals here, too, and it's so very frightening ... both for them and the thought of being without them.

I just wanted to let you know that my mother had a cat wander in once. They dewormed her not realizing she was pregnant. All but one of her kittens died. I think she was the runt, oddly enough. Anyway, she developed seizures though I don't remember at what age. It didn't really affect her life, as they weren't as frequent as your Jack's. She lived a full, long life with seizures sometimes. I think things like weather changes or storms would trigger them also. My mother always knew something was going on when she'd have a spell. I don't recall if she was on meds or not.

I hope both Jack's spells and the medication side effects diminish with time. I also have to wonder if it was the recent shots or flea meds, etc. that he has reacted to. One never knows.

I brought home two kitties that fell in love at the rescue, and know how important it is for them to have each other forever : ) And it's loads of fun for us, too : )

I will keep Jack & Jill, and you, in my thoughts and prayers for a long, healthy-enough life together : )

Finnie - I hope all turns out okay, please dont give up at one vet. If you can not get anywhere with this guy, you might want to try some acupuncture or eastern medicine. I know of several practitioners in my area, dont know about your area. Or press the neuro for other options.You and your furbabies are in my thoughts as well.

Finnie,
My thoughts and prayers are with you during this difficult & trying time. Please ask the vet to give your dog an mri immediatly. My 7yr old silver egyptian mau had a siezure 9/17.I noticed his eye wasn't right & he couldn't walk correctly,I rushed him to the vet.Through out the day, he became somewhat agitated, started to go in circles, but no siezures. My family went to visit him early in the night, he went blind in one eye, and was not the sweet mellow cat that we were blessed with. After the mri, he was diagnosed with a glioma brain tumor. Needless to say we are all devistated. He passed on 9/18. Our home is not the same. I'm not telling you this to be mean, but just to be prepared. The people on this form are so kind and comforting, and their kind words & compassion truly help through difficult times. My thought &prayers are with you.

Finnie,

I came across this thread while looking for something totally unrelated. But, we lost our dear Henry, 6 year old domestic shorthair cat just a few weeks ago after he developed partial seizures. I saw your plea for hope, and my thoughts and prayers are with you.

All of Henry's tests came back negative and clear except the MRI. Although it showed no solid mass, it did show what the neurologist said was a strange white cloudiness over the outer part of the brain. She said that it could be encephalitis, which he had a 50% chance of recovering from, or a form of lymphoma, which would eventually be terminal. Only a biopsy would have been able to determine which, and that was too dangerous.

Although my Henry didn't make it, I do not regret trying to give him that chance. He was only six years old, and otherwise healthy. I don't think I've ever known a cat who liked to snuggle more.

You mentioned the continued seizures. Henry's neurologist started him on Keppra, which in conjunction with phenobarbital seemed to control his seizures well. We then tapered the phenobarbital after he developed anemia. At first the seizures increased, but then all but disappeared on the Keppra alone.

Keppra is an anti-seizure medicine long used in humans, but only in the last few years in cats. I don't know if it can be used in dogs, but Henry's neurologist recommended it because of the lack of associated side effects and long-term safety for liver function.

I hope all is well with you and your Jack, and that you have he and Jill with you for many years to come.

Finnie - I was reading through this thread and would really like to know what the outcome was with Jack. I hope it is great news and you just haven't had time to update us! Thanks.