Dcarch, very cute cartoon.
If the other cartoon you are referring to is the one with the turkeys shooting at a Pilgrim and the Native American, asking about white meat or dark, then don't think that your cartoon was pulled for any other reason than the fact that it was offensive.

Ann

Why would that be offensive?

Pilgrims had melanin challenged skin and the Native Americans had melanin rich skin, though not as melanin rich as that of African Americans (who weren't on that particular stage at that time in any case, to my knowledge.) So, a joke about white meat and dark meat could only be offensive to people far too sensitive and concerned with being politically correct. [Insert appropriate disclaimers here, such as, "in my opinion", "no offense intended", and "no people or animals were tortured in the production of this joke."]

Honestly, have we become this thin skinned???

Rachelellen, it's not a matter of people being too thin-skinned. It's a matter of being compassionate to people who may be offended by the cartoon. If you personally are a Native American, you can speak as you did. If not, then maybe it's a better idea not to say anything that could further the offense some may have taken.

Too much upheaval around here. It would be nice to go a whole week without someone interjecting potentially volatile personal opinions...

Just my 2 cents.

Lori

I made the cartoon based on historically correct information regarding representation, showing the first peaceful event between the two people. (Thanksgiving)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0b/The_First_Thanksgiving_Jean_Louis_Gerome_Ferris.png

If you remember, I purposefully place the native American Indian fellow in completely equal settings as the Pilgrim fellow, and the caption of the cartoon treated both also 100% equally:

I did show the cartoon to many people and no one felt it was offensive.

However, here is the most important lesson to be learned in situations like this. It is not how I feel if the cartoon is offensive or not offensive that is relevant. If Native American Indians feel that it is offensive to them, than it is offensive.

Therefore, for those who feel that I have offended them, I sincerely apologize. It was not my intention to insult anyone.

dcarch

Turkey's don't shoot anyone, therefore it was a joke and I would find it funny and not offensive no matter what my race was/is. What a shame that everyone has to take offense at everything these days.

Beverly

I take offense to a lot of what has been posted and the "tone" it is posted on CF, but certainly not dcarch's cartoon depiction of Thanksgiving.

C'mon people STOP THIS CARP! I'm tired of this back and forth interchange. Dcarch said he didn't mean it to be offensive and now let well enough alone.

Back to the duck...

One of my great-great grandmothers was Native American. Is that enough of the "blood" to legitimize my opinion as to whether or not a cartoon depicting a Native American is offensive?

Lori, I refuse to submit to the current trend of feeling pressured to judge every passing comment, joke, team mascot, religious display, nickname, brand name, and God knows what else (can I say "God"?)on the basis of whether or not someone, somewhere, might be offended.

Legitimate offense is based in the intent behind something.

dcarch posted a cartoon with the intent of celebrating Thanksgiving with us. I don't know whether or not Ann is correct in her reasoning as to why it was removed. If she is, then I am saddened, because I cannot imagine that dcarch intended to offend anyone, nor can I think that anyone else imagines that dcarch did.

I thought the cartoon was funny. As dcarch said, it made equal fun of the White...er...Pale...er...Lighter skinned...whatever guy and the
Red...er...Brown...er...Darker skinned....whatever, guy.

Too many ellipses in one sentence, now I am in for it from dukerdawg (Duane), whom I just ribbed about them in another thread.

Ah, well.

Duck is good. Before we got sidelined, this thread made me decide that we are having duck for Christmas day dinner. I put up some peach-cranberry chutney that I fancy will go quite well with it.

I had thought about a goose, but the year I made one it was so much more expensive than duck, and I frankly couldn't really tell the difference, except that one can get bigger geese, of course.

It is very possible to offend some or someones without intending to...
Why are you dragging this matter through the ditch? I didn't delete the post....the owners of this site did....because they thought someone might be offended...that's enough.
You don't have to judge what is PC...in your own circle. But when you are posting to a site owned and managed by another company...who likely have good reason not to be offensive, then you....we...need to abide by the rules.
As has been said many many times before. If thine eye offends thee pluck it out...or in other words if a post offends scroll on by.
I'm not much for PC either...but if someone is offended by any reference to racial differences, I oblige...in that situation.
This forum is not anyone's personal drawing room, we need to be mindful.
Ad somehow this all reminds me of that stupid "llama llama duck"...I won't sleep!
Linda C

OK I'll weigh in here. First, I am of Native American heritage I didn't see the cartoon but the way it's been explained I don't think I'd be personally offended but I know many of my relatives who would be. If the moderators of the site pulled it, it apparently was offensive to someone and discussing it endlessly will be of no use, it's gone.

Now, can we get back to talking about duck? I still have a couple dozen of the darned things in my freezer.

Annie

Linda, to whom are you referring when you question, "dragging this through the ditch?"

I saw a reasonable question asked, and some reasonable discussion follow. Did that offend you? You are correct in pointing out that those who are responsible for this forum and it's contents are within their rights to delete any post or thread they choose. However, I am not aware of any rule that states that posters may not express their opinions on such things when they occur, nor of any that requires forum members to read such opinions or give them the time of day.

In your own words, "If thine eye offends thee pluck it out...or in other words if a post offends scroll on by."

"Posted by lpinkmountain ------Adorable cartoon DC! Vy vould you think ve didn't get the joke?
Oh, and there's always duck soup to be made afterwards! :)"

Thanks. You quack me up!
-------------------------------------------------
May I make a suggestion to all?
To be fair to the original poster of this thread, let's stay on topic so that this thread will not be pulled.

I am not trying to duck the issue, a good exchange of opinion is what this country is all about, otherwise you might as well be in China.

Please continue this discourse to the "Conversations" side, It will make me feel less guilty, since I had something to do with the off-topic direction of this thread.

Thanks for understanding.

dcarch

"You quack me up! & I am not trying to duck the issue"

Groan. And ROFL! :D

"Posted by lpinkmountain ----Adorable cartoon DC! Vy vould you think ve didn't get the joke?
Oh, and there's always duck soup to be made afterwards! :) "
------------------------------------

"Duck Soup"? Yes! It's no "Horse Feathers" :-) :-)

I highly recommend this:

Before you serve your duck, take all the meat off and save the bones. With the neck and the giblets, throw in some mushrooms and a few other ingredients, you will have the most wonderful soup, much better than chicken or beef soup.

dcarch

Don't forget to save the duck fat. It is great for roasted potatoes.

Ann

Thanks everyone! I really appreciate all the responses!

(And Dcarch, I think the peeking duck is great! You're very talented! :))

Ok, so here's a question: Is it possible to make a duck with crisp skin without a layer of fat still sitting under it?

I tried jkom's recipe tonight. We really enjoyed it, great flavors, delicious skin. My main regret is that I didn't make a gravy. I expected the stuffing to be rich with duck fat but it wasn't. Anyway here it is, whole and plated with some reserved glaze:

{{!gwi}}

{{!gwi}}

Boning the duck was fun if you're into that sort of thing. A little more precision needed than for a chicken, only because there's less meat that you're willing to waste. I sewed her up rather than use skewers. It was delicious, but if you'll note on the plated picture there's that thick layer of fat under the skin.

In all I'd say it was a great meal. Thank You jkom!!!

Still, I won't back off my first post where I suggested, "Don't do it unless you've had first-hand success with a recipe at least once." You want to know what to expect.

Next question - I've got the neck, wings and most of the carcass raw, and a pair of roasted leg bones. How to make a good soup or stock? Same as I do chicken (onion, carrot, celery, bay leaf, peppercorns) or should I keep it more basic?

Gorgeous !!...Looks fabulous! If you didn't make gravy, what's that stuff on the middle of the duck?
No idea about duck stock....but I would cook the bones up with some onions, celery bay and pepper corns....and save it for gravy for the next duck.
Linda C

FOAS, your duck looks delicious. What a great looking dinner. Did you prick the duck all over? This will help the fat cook out of the duck.

One of the reasons I like the Contessa's recipe is because the duck skin is crisp, the flesh melt in the mouth tender and no fat under the skin.

Ann

"Posted by foodonastump -------------Ok, so here's a question: Is it possible to make a duck with crisp skin without a layer of fat still sitting under it?---"

Yes, but I don't think you are going to try. Someone here will put you in jail if you do. :-D

I had the pleasure of sampling the ultimate duck in Beijing, and observed how Peking ducks are made there.

After they slaughter the ducks, wash them fresh, then they blow up the ducks like a balloon to detached the fat from the skin. They then hang the ducks to air dry for 24 hours, yes, 24 hours, all in hot summer temperature. The roasting of the ducks is in a special brick oven which gives very even heat completely, and the ducks are hung so that all the fat can drain out easily.

The day after the heavanly duck experience, I traveled to a different restaurant to sample their open fire roasted suckling pig. OMG! utterly sinfully succulently delicious crispy skin!

Oh yes, your duck dafffynitely looks yummy. :-)

dcarch

Jeepers, the layer of fat under a crispy skin is the best part of duck!

I am SO craving Chinese roast duck now, and that is one thing I do miss about living in the Bay Area...at 8:30 on a Sunday night, I'd need only drive 10 minutes to get some. Here in the Valley I can't imagine I would find any closer than Sacramento, and by the time I got there, anyplace that had it would be closed. Sigh.

As for duck soup, I've always made the stock the same way I make chicken stock, and it's wonderful. So, do not waste all those good bones and bits, foodonastump!

Ive never made duck I wanted to attempt it once for my brothers who love it....anyhow I seen Alton Brown and I recall he had a good technique for the fat issue maybe if your interested you could look at what he did.

OK I'm fessing up...I have never eaten or cooked duck. Actually, I did once at a wild game dinner, buckshot and all, but we can't count that! Maybe it's time to put my toe in the water, it sure looks good!

I'm not much for the dark meat on turkey, except to nibble at it right out of the oven, and I sure don't like greasy food. Would I be pleasantly surprised if I tried it or is it like fatty dark meat? LOL Is it strong tasting?

Sharon, if you do not like "dark" meat you probably won't care for duck. It is basically all dark meat.

I know that you really don't care much for beef or steak and when Duck breast is cooked on its own it is cooked rare like a good steak. And the meat is definitely red.

Ann

Chase: domestic duck is not at all gamy. Wild duck CAN be depending on the duck's diet and how it was processed after it was killed. Domestic duck is a rich, almost sweet, dark juicy meat--hence it goes well with a lot of sweet sauces (e.g. duck a l'orange). They may be similar phylogenetically and taxonomically (boy, how I've waited for an opportunity to use words I learned in Introductory Zoology!) but from a culinary standpoint, they're different.

The challenge in cooking a wild duck is not to overcook the breast; it can taste almost liverish if overcooked. In my experience, domestic duck isn't quite as fussy about that although there are purists out there that insist on duck breast being cooked to a rosy pink stage and no further. The Joy of Cooking technique (see the link on the fourth post on this thread) is a good way to 'put your toe in the water' as you say. And the slow cooking technique gets rid of a lot of the fat. (Which you shouldn't waste...gourmet stores get $10 a pint for the stuff)

Sharon, I don't like dark meat on chicken and turkey and don't care much for steak either. I didn't like duck the one time I tasted it, however I do believe it was a wild duck.

I wonder what the difference in regular duck and Peking Duck?

Peking duck is coy.

All right, I'll be serious. Peking duck is actually a method of preparation that can be used with plain old ducks, though in China there is a duck called the "Pekin duck" which is force fed (much like geese are to produce foix gras) so that a particularly fatty bird is produced. The Chinese (not surprising in a culture where periodic famine devastated huge areas throughout their recorded history) relish fatty meats.

Here is a link that might be useful: More than you probably want to know about Peking Duck.

"Pekin duck" is a domesticated duck brought over from China, and is synonymous with Long Island duck which is what most of this country eats.

Eileen - Alton's duck was my first attempt several years ago. It was absolutely horrible. But the recipe gets good reviews so clearly it was the fault of the chef. ;)

Linda - The sauce you see was extra basting stuff.

Ann - Ok, next time I try Ina's method. But you know me and high heat, so it might be a while! :)

dcarch - If you saw the amount of latex gloves, Lysol kitchen cleaner and paper towels I went through yesterday, you'd know that I won't try that method. I'll just take your word for it, LOL!

The duck carcass is four hours into the process of becoming stock. I think I got overzealous with my addition of water so it'll be going for a few more hours I think. House smells good!

I've only eaten Peking Duck from a really nice Asian rest. and it was OK. I like dark meat on chicken and especially turkey but the duck was not my favorite. I have never tried it again because of that first attempt and that was probably about 20+ years ago.

Should I try again? Maybe. Will I buy one and cook it myself - I doubt it.

"Peking duck is coy." Cute Rachellen. ; )

Okay, after seeing a recipe for Peking Roast I always thought Peking Duck was a method too. A few days ago I saw a TV show (saw parts and don't remember what it was on)where they were talking about Peking Duck and said not to confuse it with Pekin Duck that you get at the supermarket. It sounded like they were saying Peking Duck was a different kind of duck. Thanks for the info and it's good to know I thought right all along. This show was very confusing to me.

Maddie - I just stumbled across this duck recipe and it looks wonderful. Just wanted to share.

Here is a link that might be useful: Pan-Seared Duck Breasts with Pomegranate Jus

Tonight my six yo granddaughter told me she ate duck the other day. She said it was delicious, but "I don't want to eat a duck anymore. I like ducks, so I don't want to eat one, even if they taste good." I hope she never sees a cute baby cow.

Sherry

Cute Sherry...or a baby lamb.
Pekin duck is a way of preparing duck as well as the breed of duck found in China. A few were shipped here and they flourished on Long Island and are what we now know as Long Island duck....but not in China!
Also on the menu, Pekin duck is Long Island duck prepared liek they do in China....skinny slices with very crispy skin.
Peeking duck is a joke!
confusing....yep..
Linda C

Pekin ducks are just another breed of duck, very common here in America. In fact, those white ducks I raised are just that, Pekin ducks.

Many, perhaps even most of the commercially available ducks are now Pekin ducks, simply a "breed" or "variety" of white duck that grows quickly. Mine were ready for the freezer in two months.

Annie

Maybe I'll look for a fresh duck and roast one over the holidays. It has been a while and we both really enjoy duck.

Ann

When Peking Duck was first introduced to NY restaurants, you must place your order 48 hours in advance, because that's how long it would take to make them.

dcarch

It was the same in Toronto. You had to order 24 hours in advance.

Ann

So, lets talk more about ducks.

I passed by China Town today and checked out a meat store there. Lot's of stuff that you can't find anywhere else.

Duck wings. They seem to have more meat on them and less fat then chicken wings.

Boneless duck feet. Yes I said boneless. Not sure how they get all the bones out so nice and clean.

Duck tongues. Duck tongue is a delicacy. I wonder where they get all those tongues?

dcarch

Where they get all those tongues??? Um...from ducks, at a guess. O.k., o.k., I'll stop being a smart alec. :)

If you buy ducks whole in Chinatown, they usually come with the head, but not the tongue. The ducks ordered for restaurants also come with the head, sans tongue.

Giblets are also generally absent, but you can find trays of them in the "specialty" meat sections.

When I lived in Oakland, I did all my grocery shopping in Chinatown, and with all the strange things I saw in offer at the "specialty" meat counters, I never saw boned duck feet, though I saw duck and chicken feet in plenty.

I cannot imagine why (or how, for that matter) they bone them, as the bones and cartilage are what is responsible for most of the flavor. What little flavor the feet of fowl have, that is...mostly they taste like whatever they've been cooked in.

I remember taking a Chinatown uninitiated girl friend shopping with me. The tray of pig snouts (nostrils all nicely lined up and pointed skyward) shocked her, the pig ears got her giggling, but the bulls' penis made her run out the door, in laughing hysteria. It was sliced, and looked like little meat doughnuts, with the central hole that I assume was the urinary tract forming the center.

Once she recovered, she didn't bat an eye at the tripe, squashed flat dried ducks, pig tails and duck tongues.

"-------Where they get all those tongues??? Um...from ducks, at a guess. -------"
LOLOL,
Why didnÂt it occur to me? I didnÂt have all my ducks in a row?

You are so lucky, and I consider myself very lucky also to have the opportunities to try so many different things and enjoy so much more pleasures in life.

I always make it a point to try out whatever foods the local people enjoy wherever I travel to. I have sampled things that I canÂt even mention here, because there are so many people here with such incredible preconceived opinions. ( Culinary imperialism?)

dcarch

"I have sampled things that I canÂt even mention here, because there are so many people here with such incredible preconceived opinions. ( Culinary imperialism?)"

Wow darch, that was not so nice to say. I think everyone on this board has a different opinion about food. I say bring on all the unmentionable samples you have tried. It may make for an interesting conversation.

"Wow darch, that was not so nice to say. I think everyone on this board has a different opinion about food. I say bring on all the unmentionable samples you have tried. It may make for an interesting conversation."

I can understand your feeling that way because you are not at the receiving end of various attacks and e. mails.

No. I will not be bring things up that I know people here will go into all directions.

Different opinions are very good, but haven't we learn our lessons these past few days?

Let me just focus in sharing new ideas to whoever is interested.

Thanks

dcarch

For some reason, it didn't occur to me until I re-read Ina Garten's recipe for roast duck - that's a variant on the classic Cantonese duck recipe for War Shew Opp. Boiled first, then the duck is cut up and fried till crispy. It's a Southern China dish that is seldom made any longer, being fairly labor intensive.

foodonastump, glad you enjoyed the boned stuffed duck! I like to use the duck stock to make the gravy - with a little Port it's really scrumptious together.

Long ago when I was in my late twenties I worked for a short time as a waitress in a very nice, very small French restaurant on the Peninsula below San Francisco. The chef made his daily soup from the stock he made from duck scrapes everyday. Often it was watercress, sometimes it was something else. It was always pureed with a bit of cream added. It was always delicious.

Dcarch, for the ones who like to discuss things in the open, how about trying not to sound so patronizing? I understand that there are people who like to go behind the scenes and cause more havoc than exists out front (unbelievable, but I know first hand how true that is...) But it is terribly grating to several people on the board when you come off sounding so condescending. I'm sorry if that's not your intention, but it really has been perceived as demeaning to several CF contributors.

Now, that said, I will say I am a bit squeamish about trying certain things alien to the North American diet; however, I do find it interesting what other people consume as delicacies. We had a family friend who visited Korea, and as the guest of honor at a dinner party, had to eat the eye balls of the dish of the night. To not do so would have been disrespectful to his hosts, so he popped and swallowed! Not my cup of tea, but I do find that kind of information intriguing!

Lori

Lori,

I like the way you put things to me, you were suggesting and not attacking. It was the attacking and all the denying of how newcomer's feelings were worthless and baseless that started all the excitement.

Again, I almost never bother with this kind of things in many other forums I contribute. I got into this discussions really trying to bring peace in the beginning.

I accept your suggestion and I thank you for good manners.
Now let's end this and go back to talking duck.

I got to talk to a Chinese friend yesterday about ducks. He mentioned to me that duck blood is a delicacy, and you can also get duck liver sausages.

dcarch

I've eaten but never cooked a duck myself. I'm reading carefully.

Well - the family decided on roast duck for Christmas Day so I am bumping this thread for anyone else who might be entertaining the idea of duck in the near future. I am torn between the Ina recipe and jkmoms. I must admit, the only thing I have big enoug to hold 2 ducks at once to simmer them is the infamous turkey fryer and I'm not sure I want to drag that out in the snow/rain......

Alexa

Alexa, my favorite duck so far came out of the smoker, Roger and Sherry came for dinner and they've sampled that, Roger really liked it. Deep fried might be really good!

As for "unmentionables", I've confessed to eating everything from testicles to head cheese. (shrug) Some I liked, some I didn't. I tried to get cabrito when we went to Mexico, but couldn't find any.

I ate sushi in California, although I liked the deep fried version best, LOL. (Thanks, Diana!)

The only time I got a lot of criticism here was once when I posted pictures of the new calves and had the "annual naming of the beef". I did get a couple of hateful emails from a woman who couldn't stand me "talking ugly about food" and a couple of others about being the next thing to a murderer for raising beef and then having it killed. (shrug) I'm a big girl, I can deal with it.

I got a lot more nastiness on the tomato forum and from one male poster on Harvest who was always right and got not just nasty, but threatening.

It happens. (shrug) I get past it.

Annie

Alexa, just simmer them one at a time. They really need to sit and air dry after they come out of the broth. So it won't matter if one dries a little longer than the other.

Ann