What was the name of the particular breads you enjoyed on your trip? Was it made with rye, wheat, oats, barley, or a combination? Danish ryes tend to be lighter and sweeter than German ryes, but you said it wasn't sweet, was it a light rye or similar to German Pumpernickel (more like a dense "brick" that has been steamed in the oven, rather than baked)? Nordic Breads... Kernebrod Tresse Limpa Rogbrod Swedish Caraway Bread Scandinavian Star ------------------------------- Here are some different recipes for Sprouted Breads.... This recipe uses a sponge method which works very well when using whole wheat flour. I'd add 1/4 t. ascorbic acid powder to the sponge, but that's me, always trying to improve a recipe. But then, I always add ascorbic acid anytime I make a yeasted bread that contains whole wheat flour or wheat germ. You'll get better gluten development if you use ascorbic acid. Ascorbic acid isn't necessary when making sourdough breads. Sourdough breads are acidic enough. -Grainlady SPROUTED WHEAT BREAD (source: Deaf Smith Country Cookbook) Yield: Two 9x5-inch loaves 3 c. lukewarm water 1 T. dry yeast 1/4 c. unsulfured molasses or raw honey 4 T. unrefined oil 1 t. sea salt 4 c. whole wheat flour 2 c. wheat sprouts (more can be used) 3-4 c. whole wheat flour Dissolve the yeast in the water. Add the molasses, oil, salt, and flour. Beat well. Let rise for 1 hour. Add the wheat sprouts (ground in a food grinder or hand grain mill) to the raised sponge. Add additional flour to make the dough kneadable. Knead well on a floured board. Place the dough in an oiled bowl. Cover with a damp cloth. Let rise until double in bulk, about 1 hour. Punch down and form into 2 loaves and place in oiled loaf pans. Let rise about 30 minutes. Bake 1 hour at 350F. Cool on rack. --------------------------------- SPROUTED WHOLE WHEAT BREAD (source: Wheat Cookin' Made Easy - by Pam Crockett) 1 c. milk, scalded 1/2 c. water 2 T. vegetable oil 2 T. honey 1 egg 1 c. sprouts 1 t. salt 1 pkg. dry yeast 4 cups whole wheat flour Liquefy in blender, scalded milk, water, vegetable oil, honey, egg and sprouts. Pour into large mixing bowl and add salt and 2 cups of whole wheat flour. Mix well. Add yeast and remaining 2 eups of flour. Knead for 10 minutes. Form into a greased 9x5-inch pan and let rise until doubled in bulk. Bake for 60 to 70 minutes at 350°F. Grainlady note: I'm going to question going from kneading to formed loaf without allowing the dough to double in bulk if using active dry yeast. If you use an instant type yeast (Quick-Rise, Rapid-Rise, SAF-Instant, Bread Machine Yeast), you can knead the dough, then cover and allow it to rest for 10 minutes, THEN form and allow to proof. So there may have been a step omited in this recipe. ----------------------------------- WHEAT SPROUTS BREAD (source: Uprisings - The Whole Grain Bakers' Book) 2 c. warm water 2 t. malt 2 T. molasses 1 T. yeast 5 cups hard whole wheat flour 1/2 lb. (about 2 cups) wheat sprouts 1 t. salt 2 T. whey powder (optional) 3 T. oil 1-1/2 T. soy flour Mix together water, yeast, sweeteners and 2 cups flour. Let sit till bubbly. Then add remaining ingredients, and knead well, reserving or adding a little flour to obtain a good elastic texture. Let raise in oiled covered bowl, shape into loaves and let rise again. Bake at 350°F, 45 minutes. Yield: two 1-1/2-pound loaves. ---------------------------------- Sprouted Wheat Bread (source: http://emr.cs.iit.edu/~reingold/ruths-kitchen/recipes/breads/sprouted_wh.html) This sprouted wheat bread is moist and hearty without weighing a ton. Be sure to start it 3 or 4 days before you want to bake because you need to grow the sprouts first. I originally got this idea from Bernard Clayton, Jr., The Complete Book of Breads, Simon and Shuster, 1973. Early Preparations 3 days prior to baking, put 1/4 cup whole wheat seeds or berries in a 1-quart jar. Cover the mouth of the jar with cheesecloth, fastened with a rubber band. Soak seeds in warm water. Pour off the water (save), and place jar on its side, in a dark place. Twice a day, rinse the berries in tepid water (80°-85° )poured through the cheesecloth. Each time drain and reserve the water for a total of 2 cups rinsing water. Store the rinsing water in the refrigerator. Ingredients 1/4 cup wheat seeds or berries (see above) 2 cups tepid water for rinsing (see above) 2 pkgs. dry yeast the same 2 cups of rinsing water, heated to 100°F. 1/4 cup each brewer's yeast and honey 3 T. oil 5 cups whole wheat flour 1 T. salt When the sprouts are as long as the seed, bake the bread. Sprinkle the yeast over 1/2 cup of the reserved liquid (heated to 100°). Put remaining ingredients (except for 1 cup of flour and sprouts) in bowl of food processor. Add yeast mixture, and mix until smooth. Leave in food processor to rise for 1 hour. Stir down; add sprouts and 1 additional cup of whole wheat flour. Mix until fairly smooth, adding flour if needed. Place dough in greased bowl, cover, and let rise until double. Punch down, knead 30 seconds, and divide into two. Shape into balls, and let rest for 5 minutes. Form loaves by making an oval, folding in half, and pinching seam. Put in greased loaf pans to rise. Cover, and allow to double. Preheat oven to 375°F. Bake loaves for 25 minutes, lower heat to 300°F., and bake an additional 35 minutes. Finished loaves should give a hollow sound when tapped on the bottom. Bake an additional 5-10 minutes if loaves are not done. Cool on rack. These freeze quite well. Yield: 2 loaves.

simpleme, I think the "problem" is possibly in the way you shaped the loaves. If you don't get the dough stretched and tucked under tightly enough, it spreads. Then again, it could be that your dough was wetter than usual, either because of weather or the flour or the humdity or whatever. I've "propped up" dough that was too slack to hold its shape, there's even a canvas cloth made for just such a use, but I can't seem to move the loaves without flattening them... Annie

There is both an electric and a gas oven in my kitchen. My gas oven is ''old-fashioned'' (I believe someone referred to it as analog, because it has a dial, rather than a digital temperature selection) and the thermostat cycles quite a bit to work at keeping the heat at a particular temperature. It isn't as accurate as the electric, there is no window or light to view what's going on in there, and the gas oven takes longer to bake exactly the same thing as the electric oven. There is no convection with a gas oven, like with an electric, and if you've used a convection oven, you'll know what the advantages are. (I always preheat in convection mode, because it's much faster; I bake my pizza on convection as well as bread.) I know about this because I've tested both my ovens extensively. Yes, Velodoug knows exactly what he's talking about. I have a gas range mainly for the cooktop, and the oven for those times we lose power; typically in the winter during storms. It's my second oven, and a reliable ''back-up''. (No...Just like Doug, I don't turn it on in the summer months either.) My electric oven is better insulated, has a window so I can check progress without opening the door, and because the temperature is digital, it typically ends up where I want it to be. With a gas oven, you regulate a recipe by sight and smell, not by time the recipe states it should be done. If you're hanging out in the kitchen all day, or using your old gas stove to heat the room (like I used to 30 years ago), No Problem. It's Done When It's Done. Your Nose Knows. In the electric oven, my pizza recipe turns out the same every single time, and I know exactly how long to bake it to get consistent results. Not so with the gas oven. That doesn't mean you won't get good product; it simply isn't as accurate and doesn't bake the same way. You tend to get moist heat with gas, and there is a natural convection, but side by side, I'll go with electric every time. I wouldn't spend that kind of money ($7K) on any gas oven (mine is also a Lacanche), over a Gaggenau for what you want to use it for. (I don't have experience with other pizza ovens, so I only know about what I'm using. I thought you were asking for experience, not just opinions.) Typically, I preheat my oven to 550 degrees before putting in a pizza, which is done to a golden brown with perfectly charred cheese and a golden bottom crust in 8 minutes. I use my oven heavily for everything. Good luck to you. I know it's daunting to spend serious money on appliances that don't do what you want them to. I hope your next appliance will give you everything you want from it.

So, I'll go ahead and throw this out there for you, l pink. I've been making this bread for about a year now Open Crumb from Stiff Dough Trevor Jay Wilson provides a wealth of info in an encouraging way. He also isn't afraid to show a shredding "window pane" test on his instagram keeping it real:) A few things were a bit important at first. First, watch his video -- his "kneading" technique is unique -- I cup/pull the dough up sides of the bowl because my hands are too small:) It really is easy. A scale. Last, I used a pizza stone to bake and just recently treated myself to a combo cooker. Both work. Enough of all that. Here was a general schedule I used: In the afternoon (up until about 8:00 pm) -- mix your predough (flours, water and salt) cover and put in refrigerator. 11:00 pm -- remove dough from refrigerator and set on counter (or, if you're like me in winter I put in my oven with light on) just to slowly get to room temp. 5:00 a.m. -- add your starter. *(or whenever you get up, adjust schedule accordingly) 5:10 a.m. -- "knead" and spin until it feels like playdough (a few minutes) 5:20 a.m. -- (as above) 5:30 a.m. -- (as above) I do this a third time while Trevor only does twice. Both work to be continued:)