Lily, has this happened before? Peeing inappropriately?

Most often this is a sign of a medical problem. I would separate the cats to find who is sick and take him/her to the vet.

Since I have had cats since 1970, I have had inappropiate peeing at times, but this is totally behavioral, since they poop as well. This morning there was pee under the verbena and when I went up to fed my koi after I had fed my cats, the culprit peed a huge puddle and left me a big pile of poop in the five minutes I was gone. I don't have a video cam but I'm laying aluminum foil at the two spots when I leave today. Tomorrow morning I am going to hide near by when I feed them to see if I can catch it happening. I think it's Annie , who has been in this house since she was 3 weeks old along with her mother who I rescued from the street when she was pregnant over 5 years ago.

I'm certainly no expert since this is my first cat but I'll tell you what solved my problem. When she was just over a year old she started peeing on the carpet. I moved the litter box to several different places and she would still pee. Finally I put it in a nook of the family room where she has plenty of room to get in and out of it and that was the end of her not using it. I guess that's where she wanted it (not exactly where I would prefer) and she was trying to tell me. Does yours have their own boxes? I've heard that some cats don't like to share.

I suspect this is a "Dominance" behavour. Either the last cat you brought in is doing it or the one before that who was the most dominant. That narrows it down to 2 cats having a PI--ING contest so to speak. The last cat you took in is male. I would bet money the other opponant is your 18 year old male. It is those 2 doing it. In spite of what you want to believe. Solution....get rid of the new male.

I agree that this is a dominance issue, but I doubt it is the males. The 18 year old male is beyond interacting with anyone. He still jumps on laps and jumps from the floor to the island . The young male, 13 months, is a real laid back sweetie. I would bet the house it's not either of them. I think girls are far more pissy than boys. I always have had boys, but then a bunch of girls needed rescued and there in lies the problem. I had this before last fall and I knew it was the foster, Izzy, a large girl that the mother/daughter hated. I finally got rid of her and happily she found her forever home with a young couple with no other pets. She's a happy queen. This mother/daughter combo is not a good thing. I should have found a home for the kitten like I did for her two brothers who went together to a home. But these two were so close and still are but they are a formidable force. I have one huge litter box upstairs and 7 in the basement --a short flight of stairs from the kitchen. All boxes are hidden in nooks and there is different litter for those who like clumping and those who like other varieties. I love my cats but frankly they are giving me a giant headache about now. If these two have to be separated I don't know what will happen. They went to the vets together, they were both neutered together, and lay beside each other and eat together. They are identical looking torties down to their 17 pounds.

Try moving both mother and daughter to your carriage house, see what happens then. If it happens there you know it is them. Then move ONE of the kitties back home, that should tell you something anyway.
Of course if all activity ceases once you move those two, it may be the fact that they do not want to share their space with any other felines anymore. I have had cats that change their behavior for no apparent reason just as you are describing. Who knows what goes on in their furry little heads:)

When your cat starts peeing or pooping inappropriately, it is best to examine and rule out medical causes, especially with geriatric cats. If their home has not changed, it is likely not behavioral. 13 months is too long to consider a "change" other than medical, at this point, in my opinion.

Try plugging in one of the Feliway plug ins in the kitchen and get the Feliway spray and spray it in spots in there and see if it helps. You have to use the spray everyday to be effective.

Thanks..I might try the Feliway..It can't be medical, unless you count psychological, because it is more than one cat, and they are very healthy and active and saw the vet some months ago. It's the mom/daughter combo that is the problem. This kitten nursed from the mother till she was the same size as her. And mom is very protective of the young one. Last night I came home w/ tissue paper from a gift I bought. The daughter loves paper and was lying at my feet on it. She left and another cat layed on it so I thought I'd take it to the kitchen where they were playing in a paper bag and they could lay on it in that room. Ten minutes later there was poop and pee on it. Today when I fed them their wet food, I went out and got DH to hide in the powder room and watch after they finished to see who was the culprit. I was gone 2 minutes and someone peed before I got back from the yard. When DH hid to watch, they knew he was there and did nothing. So..I did not take them to the carriage house as that would be totally new territory to them..about 30 yards from the house. and might freak them out more... I put them in the basement and shut the door. I put their food and water and they have 7 litter boxes which is 2 and 1/3 per cat. I plan to let them there 24 hours and then bring up old Maddie who is 15 and is a suspect. If 24 hours later nothing happens, Mom will be brought up. And last, Annie. If there is an incident when one of the cats is brought up that cat returns and I wait another 24 hours. It's been six hours and all is quiet and pee free. Does anyone think this will work? My sanity need this.

"It can't be medical...they are very healthy and active and saw the vet some months ago."

A urinary tract infection (or any other medical problem, for that matter) can pop up at any time and very quickly.

You can't rule out a medical problem.

What is this "Feliway plug in" and "Feliway spray"?
Thanks!

It can't be medical...they are very healthy and active and saw the vet some months ago.

????? Somde months ago??

Well then, if you slit your wrists, I hope you give yourself better attention.

I am out of here.

The three cats were put in the basement 13 hours ago and there are no accidents in the kitchen, everything is quiet and serene and smells wonderful. The cats in the basement have some how recovered from their "ailment that all three needed to see a vet about peeing AND pooping", and are using the litter boxes w/o ANY accidents..Explain that if it's not psychological. Tomorrow I will bring one cat up and see how it goes from there. You can just see it in the attitude of the four upstairs cats...happy that the friction is no longer there. This would be the perfect situation but I have these three in the basement who I love as well to figure out the problem which is definitely NOT physical.

Day two..Almost 30 hours later, no pee and poop upstair by those four cats, and no poop and pee downstairs by the three basement cats. Everything is in the litter box. Life is good. I may wait one more day before bringing Nellie, the mother, up first. I want to enjoy the good smell and vibes..and unstrsss a litle.

That would be" unstress a little"..Can't even spell anymore.

Day 4.. I put the three suspects in the basement on Sat. and there have been no accidents of any kind in the kitchen or anywhere with the four upstairs cats. And the three basement cats are using the litter boxes and there are no accidents down there either. This afternoon, I brought Mom up and 12 hours later all is still well. If it remains like that till tomorrow afternoon, daughter Annie will come up. It smells so nice in here and the cats seem happy but I still don't know the cause of the problem. And until I figure that out, it could happen again..

I don't know about cats, but someone with lots of dogs and a runny stool problem put little shavings of different colored crayons in their food. She marked which animal got which color and could then tell which poop belonged to which dog and who was having the problem. Wouldn't work with the cat pee but it would work if they poop on the floor again.

De

Enjoy the sweet-scented quiet -- you deserve it!

I'm impressed with your patience and your deductive process. Posts like this are why I enjoy this forum -- picking up info on not only what people do for their pets, but how they figure out what to do. Sorry for the few snarky comments you got -- and thanks for the updates as you solve the riddle.

What will you do if it turns out to be Annie?

Linnea -- My understanding is that Feliway is a synthetic cat phermone that cats produce when they're happy. A little spray in the air or on an object puts the cat in a relaxed, happy mood -- less stressed cats are less likely to act up. I've used the spray when I introduced a new cat to the household, to sort of ease things along.

Lily, I too have been following your cat saga. I don't think I would have your patience, but this was a brilliant method to use to find the culprit. Please do continue to update us!

Thanks everyone. In the 26 hours Nellie has been up absolutely nothing happened even though 5 cats were using one large litter box..cleaned a few times during the day. So since the other 7 boxes are all in the basement with two cats, I opened the basement door and the other two came up. Henry , the 13 month old big male, sat on the steps watching it all. All the others could care less. Didn't move from their chairs or windowsills. Annie, the fat daughter, and Henry play together but I didn't think there was a rivalry. All I know is since saturday morning life was good here with NO accidents in the basement, which I could handle.. or the kitchen. Wish me luck. I know now that's it's one of these two.I'll keep you posted.

Good Luck!!!

dktrahan- A lady I worked with at a vets office had the peeing issue and she put in some type of lithium strip that caused urine to glow was shredded into small pieces into the individual dishes and she could use a black light and the urine of the cat that had the strip would be neon glowing so she knew who was peeing out of the box. Wished I remembered what it was exactly... but similar to the crayons with dogs

Well, I know who it is but what to do about it?? As I said nothing since last Sat. morning when I started my experiment. Yesterday I let the remaining two up and as I was typing the last post with Annie, fat daughter, sitting on the windowsill, I went to the kitchen after and saw a pile at the cupboard. So I took Maddie out to the carriage house and everything is fine now. No messes anywhere , everything in the litter box and that includes out in the carriage house. She has one box along with food and water and there were two piles of poop and three things of pee all in the litter box.... Nothing on the floor or anywhere else. So now what? She will be 15. My two oldest, the boy is 18, are the only cats I didn't rescue. Louie came from a friend whose kitten became pregnant before she was neutered and he is the only one of the four kittens remaining. My daughter had his brother who died awhile ago. I got Maddie from an ad..don't even ask why. She came from a house and was one of 6 of the cutest tiger kittens I have ever seen. For some reason her mother who was a total house cat was not neutered and ran out when the door was a jar and got nailed by the cat next foor..Maddie has anxiety issues and I would like to know why. She attacks her wet food altho I stand there and don't let anyone take hers and there is always dry food available as well as water and treats. She lays with the other cats and I see them head butt her so I can't think of an enemy. They basically ignore her so I don't know why she's suddenly having issues. It's very clear she cannot go somewhere else at her age. I even feel bad about her exile out there but I isolated the problem,. Do you think kitty Xanax would work? I hate to pill a good cat..she'd be hell to try.

Kitty Prozac often helps with anxiety issues (see the thread a little bit further down about cats peeing on the bed). My cat is on Clomicalm for anxiety and aggression issues, and it helps him immensely -- we only have "accidents" maybe once every month or two now. He's not too hard to pill, though -- you just go up to him when he's eating, grab his head, and shove the pill down his throat (the pills are only an 1/8th of a pill, so very small).

I would really advise that you go to your vet and talk this over. He might have some good suggestions. Also, if he does suggest some sort of medication, you can always try Pill Pockets. My cat is too smart to fall for them, but my other cat adores them...it just depends on the cat.

Clomicalm seems to be maybe what's needed. I cannot tell you how peaceful and good smelling everything is. The house smells of Murphy oil soap. Who knows anything about cat senility? I'm wondering why Maddie is acting so weird. DS said that maybe someone isn't letting her use the litter box but since i have 8 and they are all in different places, I don't think that's it. She's using the one in the carriage house and is eating and drinking. I just feel bad for her. But the others don't miss her.

If there's only one litter box on the main floor, that may be the problem. She may have a little arthritis that makes it a bit uncomfortable to do the stairs to the basement. Cats and dogs do not show pain until it's excrutiating, so you may not be aware of an issue. I would try adding a few more litter boxes to the main level for her. If that doesn't work, you may want to get her into the vet for a good checkup. A checkup a few months ago really doesn't count. Medical conditions can pop up quickly, and if something is making her uncomfortable, it could progress seriously if you wait too long. I always assume medical issue FIRST with any behavioral changes. Good luck.

So far everything is working. The six cats in the house are not doing anything outside the boxes, and Maddie is also going in her litter box. She's eating and drinking but I'll wait a day or so and bring her back in the house. If things deteriorate,and she goes outside the boxes , I'll get her to the vet. And I'll ask about clomicalm....There is only the one box on the first floor, but it's kept very clean ans it's very large. It's not a litter box but a 58 quart Sterilite container with a cut out for the two old cats.