Hi Poochella! As the say seeing is believing! I hope my photos will be as impressive when I get around to posting? I wrote the below and was ready to paste before I saw your 2nd reply with photos. Jim Hi jroot and Poochella and of course All! Thanks for your replies. I sort of thought someone would think I was not serious about the 8' tall Dahlia plants because Ive never seen them before either. But it is the truth as Poochella said. I candidly thought I was doing something wrong. But I will say this; my wife thinks their beautiful and likes looking out the window at them, plus my next door neighbor told my daughter when she sits on her patio she feels like shes at a park. Im so happy we missed the frost of Sat morning 9/30, here in the Syracuse NY area as I have a brother from Binghamton NY, actually Conklin which is 90 miles S of Syracuse who will be visiting this coming weekend. He too has never seen 8'ers. Amazingly with a 1½ degree southerly latitude difference between his home and ours, his area is classified as Zone 4a/b where ours is Zone 5a. So that could possibly be a great deal to cause the tallness factor. Longer warmth and as much as a 2 to 3 week more of growing season can make a big difference Im sure. I gave him a tuber this Spring but his never materialized to that height. I just went out to measure what I think is the tallest and it does measure just shy of 8', and Im sure with the temps in the low 50's to middle and upper 70's on a couple of days this week they'll reach beyond that height. I will get a couple of photos, hopefully today. Another thing I would like to point out is without trying to embellish is, first, jroot like you this is a favorite Forum. The learning content is great and the photos are exhilarating, and Im envious of the photography. To be so gifted. Second, as to the tall growth. I learned after the fact that its not so good to fertilize or should I say over fertilize. I'm sure it came via this Forum. Well, for the past two years Ive taken fresh horse manure, mixed it in a 5-gal pail until it was broken down and then added more until I had the pail almost full of manure. I then put this in my six cu ft construction wheel barrel and added collected rainwater. I fill the barrel at least twice and get possibly as much as 50 gals of liquid that I strain back into 5 gal pails. I also add five tablespoons of Miracle Grow to each pail. (Talk about over fertilization!) Then with a watering can I pour at the base of each plant and generally have enough left over and pour over the plant itself. I did this three times during the growing season. One thing Ive recently noticed as I pass a few properties where Dahlias are visibly growing, is the leaf structure from the stem base ½ way up on many or most plants have already turned brown and crumbly dead looking. I have very little to no brown on my leaf structure. The same areas of growing but why the difference? Is it the soil PH or the rich mixture? I have not a phantom of an idea. And 3rdly I have to add I enjoy reading the posts from this Forums Group. As much as I hate the thought of being just a few weeks away from Winter where our average snowfall is over 100", I cant wait to get caught up on the Groups Tips and Success after blowing out the driveway. Believe me, Id rather be Gardening, and the Gardening Forum is the closest I can get :>) Jim

Wow, for a daughter that wants to be with nature she sure is acting like her zen is being lazy on the couch. Sorry, I'm not sure how to put it more politely. It's lazy parenting to let the children rule the roost. Being a nature geek or free spirit, doesn't mean the kids get to run free to destroy grandma's house. Now that you've mentioned your medical predicaments, she should be even more mindful of your simple wishes. Sure there will be times the kids might run, or take food into the wrong room or even forget and jump on the sofa but she should be thoughtful of your desires as you are of hers. Your following her vegan rules as far as the kids go. Your doing what should be her share of the house work it seems. It's time for her to grow up and respect your space. It sounds like your willing to be a super grandma if she would only respect the house rules. Being safe from falling objects, respecting your property, I don't see how she can argue against this. Sounds like your in between a rock and a hard spot right now. I suppose it would be good if you could get her to return and implement your rules on your own. When they bring food into other rooms,quietly tell the child to return to the room where the food is eaten. When the run tell them the rule politely with the suggestion of a time and place they can run. After dinner in the back yard. I personally think they should follow your rules without a reward, although a reward for another reason might tempt them and be acceptable to you. They can be the one who picks out the movie or the one who picks out a game first or a walk to the park. Maybe make smores for a really good day of being good in the house. Your pick of rewards but they have to behave (most all of the time) to get it. Stick to your guns but do it yourself. Quietly, sweetly, & use lots of honey. Mom will have to see, that's the way it is. And the deployment excuse doesn't cut it for me. If anything they need more structure and order. (with out a doubt all of this has crossed your mind, so good luck these next few months)

thank you all for the kind words. It has been less stressful. DD and I attended a baby shower (or Baby Sprinkle the invite said, whatever that means haha), and she had another set of g.parents babysit. Seems out of four sets of grandparents for these boys, two are very lenient, let'em run wild types, and my ex and his SO are a little more like me and DH. I so agree with socks and Marilyn... children need rules, it does make them feel safe. She is going back to her friends tomorrow, which will give us a break, what with the heart cath and whatever else in store for DH next week. As Georgysmom says, she will one of these days realize that discipline (which is different from harsh punishment) and rules will make HER life easier. I am hoping I can initiate some small things, like bedtime rituals, and meal times where the family sits together, and then maybe the children will come to expect that. Sorry, I tend to ramble. Just wanted to thank you all. I so appreciate all the caring people here at KT.

I must say I agree with Happyjaq about the money side of it. In this "civilised" world we live in, we tend to think of our time and possessions in monetary terms. I have had a number of barter type arrangements in the past. Some have worked, some haven't. The ones that worked were those where we exchanged in dollar for dollar terms. I taught piano for a greengrocers children, and booked up my vegies with them every week. I taught piano in return for cleaning for a lovely lady who was struggling to afford piano lessons. I even paid for her books as my part of the deal. Both arrangements worked wonderfully. A looser arrangement with a relative where no one was (supposedly no one that is) worrying about costs, turned sour. Another friend likes to "call in favours" in return for friendly acts performed by her in the past, even though they were unasked for and sometimes unwanted :-( Redbank is not really talking about bartering as such, but more a neighbourly consideration for kind and helpful acts done at a time when they are most needed. Perhaps you could just lend the lady the boat, on the condition it is returned as borrowed. You may end up with something nice in return, or just a good feeling that you have helped out. After all - it's just sitting there doing nothing:-)