Your house, your rules. They wouldn't be doing that in mine either, if I could tactfully do anything about it.

What a situation to be in. I am so sorry for you and your husband. Was she like this in her own home when her husband was home? Maybe the worry of him being away is part of the problem

All the best.

Two kids under 4, living in a studio, no husband, living across the country from her current home. I obviously don't think your were wrong but she is probably feeling too overwhelmed to address the discipline problems right now. I'm not excusing her but that is probably what is going on. She probably thought visits to your home would give her a break but instead it is causing her more stress since at this point, she can't just snap her fingers and make those kids more disciplined. Hopefully she will cool off and see that you are not being unreasonable and maybe she will start setting some boundaries.

I hope this gets resolved soon since it sounds like this is a great but limited chance for you to spend time with your daughter and those grandkids.

I feel the same way so call me old fashion also. It worked when we were kids and it can work now. It's your house and YOU make the rules, she can live with it or just not stay with you. It seems most people now ....lets say age 40 and under live like this, or at least its the way I see it in my area. Relax, don't be so hard on yourself.

Wow, I don't have any kids, but I wouldn't even allow my dog and cat to act that way. I don't think you are being old-fashioned at all. It's common courtesy to behave and have manners when visiting someone else - even if you act like wild indians at home!! Too bad those kids can't get some civilizing from you. I can't believe anyone else would put up with that kind of behavior either. Your daughter is not doing those kids any favors. How will they be when they get to school? I say stick to your "rules". It is your house and your rules. Good luck!!

Yep. Yours are the rules of common decency and those poor kids are not being brought up well at all. Sorry to sound so judgmental but your dd needs to know that if she can't keep her kids in line at YOUR house, she needs to sty in her own apartment. Hang tough, Jenna!

I agree with the others. Your house - your rules! You are not being old-fashioned at all.

These kids sound like they need some discipline. Murraysmom made a good point when she asked how are the kids going to be when they start school??

Mean and old-fashioned? No way. In fact, you may be the only one who truly cares about those children's health, well-being and education. But your daughter won't agree with or respect that.

Look, it's your house--which means it's your rules. I'm also mean--I don't let people smoke in my house (don't like the smell/breathing problems) or on my wooden deck (I worry about fire danger. I teach children's cooking classes for young children and REQUIRE that they sit nicely at the table to eat--if they don't want to eat the foods we make in class, that's okay, they still can sit and converse with the other students.

You're rules are reasonable. They're for the good of the children. Children of that age physically NEED 12 hours (some need more) of sleep/rest each day, or they get hyper--as you've described. Kids bodies don't react as ours do. Adults run down, get tired and can't keep their eyes open. Small children? When they get overtired, their poor little bodies release loads of extra energy into their systems and they get to a point where they cannot relax enough to sleep. A reputable medical study has shown that a significant number of children suffering from hyperactivity disorder (I think it was around 50% of those tested) are simply not getting enough sleep, and were CURED when put on a schedule giving the right amount of rest. I feel so very badly for your grandchildren, that their mother doesn't understand the basic needs of the children she's raising.

But what do you do? Tough question.

You want to see them, I'm sure they love seeing you. You don't want to alienate their mother, but can you put up with the kids' behavior for one week out of 4? Tough challenge.

How strong and clever are you? Any chance you could ease up on stating the rules, BUT sneakily (using games, rewards, etc) start to work on giving the children the lessons they need? Have a lot of activities that you engage in with them. Sort of plan your day--more active stuff at times when it's appropriate, and quieter things (books, games, crayoning, etc) when they should be toning it down a bit.

I'm not a big fan of feeding children vegan diets, but what if you made it a project with your daughter? Ask her to educate you on the lifestyle, maybe take a really good vegan cooking class with her (one that addresses supplying the nutritional needs of children would be great)--there's so much involved in eating vegan and getting all the necessary nutrients.

Guess what I'm saying, if you make it fun for the kids to do the right things at the right times, perhaps you could slyly get them on some sort of schedule when they're in your home. And perhaps, if you extend yourself, taking an interest in something your daughter feels important, and making it an activity you do together (if you can't find a class, perhaps you could ask her to teach you how to prepare some of her family's favorite vegan dishes). Look, no way I'm giving up meat, either--but I think, showing the person some respect and interest in their practices would go a long way toward smoothing things over a little?

Guess what I'm saying is this--I'd still want to see the grands, I'd look at this as an opportunity to teach them, rather than to 'preach' at them, I'd try to be as creative as possible about it.

I'd definitely have some sort of reward--a game, an 'allowed' treat--for the child(ren) who came to the table and sat with us at mealtime. Wouldn't make a big deal out of it, it would just happen. eventually, they'd get the idea, I think.

What a trip down memory lane. Now that our grands are 20 & 21 we (meaning me) only remember only the later years and the great memories we made, forgetting those first years of havoc. No vegan thing, but my daughter always "went on vacation" at our home. I think I just kept them outside as much s possible. After they were overseas for 3 years and came home, we decided that we would have the boys "on our terms, in our territory" when we visited them and bought a trailer (which has graduated to a motorhome over the years), and we had great times. She and hubby "had their time together" and we had ours in a rv park or travelling. The boys loved it and were grateful (so we learned) to be with us instead of whatever stresses they had at home. I know this doesn't answer your delima, an I don't honestly remember how I managed to keep the peace when they were younger. I know I was worn out after visits. Often in tears and (still) wondering how my daughter could be such a terrible housekeeper and lazy person. I can only hope that your week at a time can be planned out to include visits to parks and playgrounds, walks and zoo's, maybe even tenting in the backyard. I know....work, but maybe incorporate dicipline thru music and songs...check out those music tapes ie barney, Shari Lewis.....teaching numbers and alphabet. Maybe your daughter needs some positive exmples in how to entertain while teaching those boys. Swim lessons also could be an idea. I know my daughter and family never had the financies to "do" some things so we tried to fill that need as well. I hope you get more answers and ideas. BTW...that is where I got the name Nanny and today our boys are still so very special and their Mom....while still a terrible housekeeper...has been a better mother than I was simply ( I think) by my leading the way gently and loving those boys as much as I could. Nanny

exactly when is she supposed to get her kids ready for the real world?? when they start school and the teachers start calling 24/7? or they're the only kids that arn't asked again for play dates?

as a past navy wife, with plenty of gal pals with kids alone, you sucked it up and kept your kids in line esp with the confined space SHE'S chosen...we were in an upstairs condo with 4 kid under the age of 4 (had a set of twins about 2 weeks after dd1 turned 4, ds1 turned 2)

kids thrive with structure. she's doing a great disservice to them...

grandma stick to your simple rules...someday the grands will thank you for the time you spent parenting them...

...as my kids got older, and started to date, my rule was you're in before 1am or the door is locked...my dd1 and her hubby, had come in from out of town, and gone out for the evening. they were home before one am...she was lol'ing the next morning and said some habits are hard to break...

Stay tough. Your house, your rules. Be firm, but let her know, you love her, and the kids, and love to have time with them. but, within your limits!

Moni, who guesses, she is old fashioned too.

thank you all so much for your kind responses.
Ivamae.,..yes she was like this in her own home. She has been influenced by some friends, they have convinced her that children should not be disciplined, they believe in co-sleeping... ( i personally disagree... those boys need their own beds), so this is not just the stress of her husband leaving. I know that is a stressor, and i feel badly for her and the boys. It is tough on them, especially the older one, with his daddy having to leave.
murraysmom..... well, she plans to home school. she also has not gotten their immunizations, which is another rant altogether ( i told her those sweet children could die from a simple childhood disease.)
sjerin and lydia... thanks for the support. i do worry so much about their future, and their schooling.

azallea... thank you for the response. I have tried the rewards, with books and crayons. we bought a little kiddy tent and a water sprinkler and other toys for outside too. I try to keep them outside playing to run off that energy. BUt they have to come in sometime!
And as far as the vegan diet and lifestyle, we have tried to be supportive, i have always kept fresh fruit in the house and she sends me a grocery list and
i purchase the rice milk, and all the vegan stuff she wants. fake butter, stuff like that. we do invite her to fix vegan meals, and we eat them with her. we do not turn our noses up, it is just not OUR lifestyle. However, there are good things and bad things about everything, does that make sense? ANd extremes.... She is studying holistic medicine, and i always show an interest ( i AM interested in alternative medicine) and ask her questions. I just think you can take anything to the extreme.

THank you all, again, i appreciate the wise responses, and i will take your words to heart., I will try to be easier on the children, it is just hard to watch.

Well, have to run to dr appt, i will check back. thanks everyone

"In two days they have knocked large pictures off the wall behind the sofa, broken a lamp, kicked the dogs, peed on the floor, and thrown food all over the house."

Kicked my dog? Peed on the floor? I don't care who they are, those children would not be welcome in my home. That is beyond disrespectful.

i can't fault her home schooling. depending on where she lives in ca, classes can be overcrowded, or being on a bus for 1/2 - 1 hour getting to and from school..

what i don't understand, how is she going to get them to sit still for periods of time TO teach them? you can't spoon-feed them knowledge on the run...

She should be allowed to raise her children as she sees fit..however. they would obey my house rules or they wouldn't be allowed to visit. Simple as that...if she doesn't control her own children, in your home. then you have that right...let her leave in a huff. better than having your home wrecked.

Yes, you are old-fashioned! I am also...and proud of it. Old-fashioned means we discipline children and teach them respect for the property and rights of others. I could write a book on my daughter-in-law's "mothering" of my two grandsons. If those boys succeed in life, it will be despite their mother, not because of her. It's so sad.

If she is going to home-school the children, I hope she has the appropriate credentials, and follows the prescribed curriculum...so her children aren't held back as my oldest grandson was.

Good luck and hugs to you!

I haven't read the replies yet, but oh Lord.

Those kids need structure and it looks like Grandma and Grandpa will be the one teaching them.

You stand by your rules and don't back down.

But you need to come up with the worse case scenario. If they decide to stay there for a week and they break rules, are you going to get onto them, like sending them to separate bedrooms for a time out?

You need to warn your daughter about this in advance.

And I'd tell her if she and the kids want to eat, they'll eat what you fix, and if not, she has to buy the vegan food and cook it herself.

What happened to our "golden years?" lol

Those kids wouldn't be welcome in my home even if they were my grandkids. My home, my rules.

Well if you're old fashioned I'm proud to be old fashioned right by your side.

Your DD is doing like so many "parents" are doing today. I put parents in quotes because they seem to want to have children but without the actual responsibility of PARENTING which means teaching children and making decisions for them until they are old enough to do it themselves. Parents treat their kids as if they were their peers except with a good deal less of respect for their own kids. If they truly respected them they would want to do want right for the children rather than what makes them feel good about themselves (the parent). This also applies to the parent who swings to the other extreme thinking that their children have to look or be a certain way to show what a "good" parent they are.

GOOD parents put the child first. Not in allowing it to run wild or treating it like some pet but in taking the time to teach, nurture,discipline and raise into a responsible adult.

What your DD needs to learn that her freedom to raise her kids as she wants ends where the freedom of the rest of us begins. I have gotten to the point where I loudly proclaim my disgust with the poor behavior of "parents" in public. I never say anything about the child. I place the shame and the blame on the "parent".

We have a neighbor just like your daughter. She has 3 kids and has never disciplined any of them. These kids are constantly in trouble everywhere they go. They truly believe they can do anything they want. And sadly, because of their parents they can.. They have done them "NO" favors. They have only made their lives harder..

It is your house and should be your rules or she can stay somewhere else. They could never stay at anyones home and let them behave this way. We would never put up with this behavior from our daughter or son's children. Stick to your guns...... Don't let you daughter and her children run the show in your home...

I am sorry you have to put up with such behavior. Your daughter does not respect you or your home. I have an 8 year old grandson who is autistic and my daughter would not put up with that kind of behavior from him.

I'm proud of you! "YOU" have morals and standards. I grew up with lots of rules. My father was a country club manager, so if we wanted to see dad, we ate dinner @ the club, played at the club pool, on the club golf course, then summer jobs @ the club. We had to have manners, nice clothes(mom sewed them), act right...or be outcasts. There's a world out there you have to fit into....get jobs in...be a part of. Being prepared socially is a big part of growing up. :0)

WOW! I have an 8 year old and a 6 year old who are going to be homeschooled this fall- and we live in CA. If they EVER stepped a toe out of line, there'd be MAJOR repercussions!! I'm horrified at your grandchildren's behavior! Your DD's belief system is OLD FASHIONED IMHO; hippy child rearing. I know you love her and like others, I believe that parents should be allowed to raise their children the way they want, but DON'T feel for a minute that you should allow that behavior in YOUR home.

Blessings,
Haley

I don't think your old fashioned at all. In fact your wise to have rules. Having rules actually causes LESS stress when it comes to kids IMO. There may be occasional running in the house but over all they can play and have fun inside without to much speed. They break things when they run, so that's for outdoor play time.
Kids that are overtired are not fun. Period.
It's your furniture, they should not jump on the furniture when you've asked them not to. Your rules are pretty simple and fashionable for parents that give a darn. No, your not old fashioned! She is.

Your house, your rules. And no; you're not old-fashioned.

Your rules are more than reasonable.

She's asking for all kinds of future problems "raising" her children this way.

It seems as though you need to exercise some tough love with the daughter. Stick to your guns regarding the kids' behaviour (and hers) in your home. You and the Grandchildren will be much happier. And I bet she'll come around, too, at least while she's in your house.

Another "your house - your rules" from me. She's not doing the kids any favors by letting them behave this way. If she continues with her lack of discipline as they get older, she's setting them up to be at a disavantage in social situations. Hope things work out and that you can enjoy your time together.

I do think you get to set the rules at your house, but there is a way to do it and a way not to do it. I sort of wonder how it was presented. I'd be curious to hear your dd's version of the story. This doesn't necessarily apply to you. I'm saying this because I was in Target a few weeks back and watched a Grandma talk down to the daughter about something that the grandchild was doing that didn't have Grandma's approval. IMO, the grandma was correct in that the child was getting away with something, but Grandma was wrong in how she approached the situation with the daughter.

You said they moved from California to Virginia??? Isn't that a three or four hour time change? My toddlers never made the daylight savings transition. Their little bodies went by the internal clock. Is it possible the little guys are still on California time? I think you could help change their habits in a positive way without a struggle with mom. Get some bath soap and toys and help transition the boys by offering to give them a bath at night. Help them into their new jammies afterwards. I'd get a good dvd meant specifically for bedtime and snuggle on the couch. Sure, it's not bed, but it might help change their hours. Plan some fun time with Grandma where they have to get up early in the morning to do it like a trip to the store or baking cookies, etc.

Kids understand that rules at Grandma's house are not the same as at home. My dad and step-mother have a nice house. My kids know they aren't allowed to wear shoes inside the house there our eat outside of the kitchen/dining area. I think you gently remind the kids that at Grandma's house, we don't jump on the furniture or run. When you see them walking or sitting or doing something right, brag them up.

As far as the food situation, show the kids their special spots at the table and let your daughter worry about the vegan meals. As a parent, I've stepped in when someone has given my children candy or cokes at an inappropriate time. I'm not vegetarian, but if I were, I wouldn't allow my parents to feed the kids non-vegetarian items.

Good luck! I hope you and you and your dd are able to find a way to work together.

What I can't understand is if she was raised with the rules you now follow, how she could change so drastically in raising her children.

Also, with regard to co-sleeping, although her children are now older, 8 babies in the Milwaukee, WI area have died THIS YEAR while co-sleeping with a parent.

Oh...my...word...

This sounds like lazy parenting. Chances are eventually the parents will be so stressed that their family life is going to be horrible.

Can you just explain to them the behaviour that you expect without making it seem like you're disciplining them? They're old enough to understand.

I see a future visit from the Nanny. Good luck to you.

Wow! I am really surprised that so many sound so tough. It really sounds to me that the mother of these children needs some parenting skills and help in raising those children. I admit, I would initially feel like lowering the "boom" on that young mother, but....the kids are young, in a stressful situation and declaring war and taking the"my way or the hiway" attitude is probably not going to solve any problems. Laying down "laws" is not a solution. Providing ideas for re-directing some of their energy, teaching the Mom (by example) how to encourge better behavior, having FUN rewards....ie:"remeber the Barney Song...we put away our mess, then we get to go to the playground". Right now, maybe the kids are adjusting to the time difference...Mom too. And other adjustments. My grands alway, ALWAYS, felt like it was FUN to be with Nanny. We sang songs, we explored our neighborhood and our little town having fun. If one of them broke something we would have a talk about how somethings were important to me, and to break or misuse them would hurt me. That lesson should include the daughter....not yelling or critisizing, but letting them know that everyone has possessions that are important to them. Don't they each have special "loveys" ? If not, they need them. Golly, this is such a great learning opportunity for you, your daughter and especially those special children that will grow up to treasure the time you have spent with them. I do wish you lots of luck on this journey. It IS worth the effort to plan those weeks you will get to share with them. Nanny

Has anyone thought of the dad when he gets home and has this mess to deal with. If he doesn't want his kids to be wild, then what is Mom going to do? This could cause "HUGE" problems in this marriage.. Unless dad wants to live this way too, major war is going to break out in this house.. This mom needs help and fast!!!!!

The writing is on the wall - maybe literally? You say you are 60 - age has nothing to do with it - it's called respect of others' property. I have grandchildren and we have rules they have followed from the get go. You aren't expecting too much. I don't care how other people raise their kids just don't expect me to put up with it in my own home. Kids like having guidelines and if you start young it's a lot easier for all concerned. Our grandkids get all our love and attention and we get treated with love and respect - a win/win situation.

"She wants to stay here one week a month." Why? To enjoy your company, let you have time with the grandchildren? Or to take a week off with you doing the cooking, laundry and baby-sitting while SHE sets the parameters of what they eat, how they behave, and what you have to put up with.
Take the good advice you have been given here. Tell her how it will be at your house, with your rules, and if she can't abide by that, the studio apartment awaits.
It's the best thing for the children, and also for your daughter. You are being sensible, not old-fashioned.

This is really a tough situation that you are in. I have nothing new to add, just wanted to let you know that I wish you the best and I hope things calm down soon. Good luck.

First off, no, you're not old fashioned. You do have a rather rare affliction though and you have to live with it. It's called "common sense". Your rules are basic, very minimal and sensible.

"In two days they have knocked large pictures off the wall behind the sofa, broken a lamp, kicked the dogs, peed on the floor, and thrown food all over the house." Obviously not acceptable. If you're daughter is accepting, condoning, promoting and/or endorsing this, that needs to stop, obviously. Nobody else has said it, so I will. Parenting doesn't stop with children having children. Your daughter needs some more parenting. My first thought was she's raising terrorists and they're attacking you. Time to take your daughter over your knee! LOL But I do understand the situation they're in, not that the situation excuses the actions or allows it.

I'm curious about your disciplining of her as she was growing up. So often I hear people say "I was raised so strict, I'm NOT going to be that way with MY kids" and that's the precursor to spoiled and/or unruly kids. Think back to what worked with her and use that as a guideline as you prepare your plan on how to procede. I do think it should be made clear that some things have to change. You're willing to compromise and again, emphasise that you're NOT trying to raise her kids, but you're not going to be affected by some of the outrageous things. Perhaps running in the house, by itself, isn't such a big thing, but with the other things it's the sum total that's troubling. Vandalism is out. Period. If peeing on the floor was an accident, accidents happen. But there's consequences. They help clean it up and Mom should have been taking the lead there. Again, you're the Mom so you have certain things you need to do and there's things you shouldn't have to do.

Couple thoughts: A calm parent to child talk to your daughter is in order. You don't want to interfere with how she raises her children but you can't allow her to destroy your home. What would you have done with her as a child if she did this? You don't sound like you'd let it go. You want to make it clear you love them, want them to be there, but make it equally clear that we all have consequences for our actions.

I'm sure you don't put your possessions above your child and grandkids. But it's not unreasonable to make it clear that if her kids misbehave and break something, how will she as the parent, replace it?

Maybe this has to be a slow going thing. Start with them coming over but you go with them to the park. Good time to get them to eat together, sit on a blanket and have lunch. Plenty of room to run and play. If they're progressing, invite them home for ice cream or something. You don't sit at the table you don't get ice cream.

Make some signs. SPEED LIMIT: WALK! Perhaps some red circles with the slash - No food in the family room. Jumping is for outside. Maybe not all at once but the speed limit would be strictly enforced, especially around the steps.

I was thinking of the carrot & stick of a speeding ticket or a "prize" or something when someone does something like picking up their toys without being told to do it. Might be a trip to the DQ or their choice of game to play (of your options!) or something like that.

Marcy D'Arcy once said "If you give a monkey a gun and the monkey shoots someone, you don't blame the monkey!" The kids can't be blamed for being brought up poorly. Sure they have problems but we all have our problems, and no, life isn't fair, it isn't equal and sometimes one gets what they think is an unfair burden. But that doesn't justify a criminal in the court system nor should it justify unruly and destructive children. Most states hold parents liable for their childrens' acts, as they should.

Last thought. Perhaps she needs someone to give a shoulder to cry on, perhaps some advice. Maybe she's acting out, looking for the discipline? Stranger things have happened.

If I'd been cooped up in one room for three weeks (studio apartment), *I* would be pretty wild too! Maybe better to help finance a larger place to stay and YOU visit THEM. The kids need stability more than being moved around -- and obviously, this isn't working for anyone!

When my son was young, 3 or 4 and we went to visit my in laws in another state about once a year he new or at least learned quickly there were more rules at their home than mine. Her kids can learn if she wants them to. If they have that much energy she needs to bring them to a park and let them run it off.

What a wonderful group you all are to respond.... thank you so much. I apologize for my earlier rant, and I guess I typed a lot of gibberish in my rush to unload. Again, I appreciate you all taking the time to reply. Just a couple comments:
Susanjf. and susie53 ... she is a Navy wife too. And the irony of all this is ...my daughter spent 4 years in the USMC. and was a master at discipline, rules, structure. I would have never ever thought she would be this way. Not in my wildest dreams. haha. This behavior is not just because her DH is deployed. This is the norm for their household. Both in CA and VA. Her husband just seems to 'go with the flow'. They live in San Diego. but the home schooling idea is not because of any overcrowding or other school issues out there. and since she refuses to get the children vaccinated, she really does not have a choice i guess.
marygaily... yes she was raised with the values I have. There was discipline in our home ( a single parent home for many years) but not harsh punishment. We had rules even then and my children had responsibilities around the house. She honestly never seemed to have a problem with our rules until she made friends with the people that push the "co-sleeping, no immunizations, no discipline" ideas. She has changed drastically in the last six years. She is my daughter and I love her very much. I know she loves her children too, but it is just very hard to deal with this, I feel like I am walking on eggs, so careful to not say the wrong thing, or critize her beliefs in any way.
Her older sister is also a Navy wife. She has three children, 12, 9 and 3. Those kids have had to deal with relocations and deployments all their lives. They love to come here, and spend time with grammie and grampa. They have no problem with our no- running, etc rules and have never given us a bit of trouble. Like Nanny98 said, their mom likes to "go on vacation" when she comes to our house and wants to be waited on. But we have so much fun with her kids, we just let her be a couch potato while she is here.
adellabedella.... i don't really think it is time change, they have been back here for a week as of yesterday. I have bought the boys pajamas several times, and I picked up some library books for them today. IF she comes back tonight, I want to try and do what you recommended, help with the bath, get the jammies on, read a story, wind down. I did try this back in the fall when they were here. I asked her if they have a bedtime, and she said yes, whenever they want to go to bed. I just don't think a two and three year old needs that decision making power.
Again, I just calmly asked her to follow, and respect, our simple rules. I go out of my way to accommodate her, buying her food, taking them shopping for clothes. I am not a yeller, i do not like confrontation at all. I would never spank the children. But i DO expect her to make them behave.
It is difficult to stand by and watch them tearing things up.
marlingardner... right,, she wants the time off. She wants me to do the laundry, and babysit. Not cooking, she no longer cares to eat the good old southern food my DH cooks. Used to eat it and ask for more.... but that was before.

Here I go, rambling on again. Sorry for the vent. I just found out today that i have a herniated disc in my spine, and also that my husband is going to have to have another cardiac catheterization ASAP. He already has two stents, and last blood work does not look good. Doc called today, very concerned, and no golf, no mowing, no exercise at all until he gets this checked. So just double anxiety for us I guess. Thanks again, i appreciate ALL your comments and I am going to try to make this work. It is a blessing to get to see this little guys and I am going to try to be a good influence on them. God bless you all.

chisue.... we offered to help finance an apartment nearby. She preferred to move in with the friends .. because they 'think like her' she says. And they have two teenage daughters to help her with the boys.

cynic... I have tried the calm mom to daughter talk. anything that seems like criticism, she just gets hostile. And, no, we certainly never put our possessions before our children. But it should not be unreasonable to expect children to listen and obey when you ask them not to do something. What really worries me, more than the knocking down of the picture.. what if that very heavy picture frame had hit him on the head on its way off the wall? What if he had grabbed a piece of the broken lamp before we got to him? what if someone falls when they are jumping on the stairs? And my dogs are big, but very gentle with children. But a kick in the right place, and they may react.
I am very concerned about their immediate safety in my home. But I am also concerned about their future. Two very overactive rowdy toddlers may be cute, but two rowdy, destructive 8 and 9 year olds would not be so cute! I do not know how to get across to my daughter that she is doing these boys a disservice by not having any structure in their lives.
Maybe things will just work themselves out.... I hope so

My beloved Mom gave me this advice when I became a grandmother. "Any time you try to give advice to your daughter in a good way, she will interpret it as criticism of her parenting". My Mom was right and so I learned that I could moderate the grands behavior by diverting their attention and making a reward sheet. It was remarkable. My daughter had no idea that it could be done so easily and soon adopted many of the techniques. I did this without saying a word. Just encouraged the kids and rewarded them in little ways, eventually they only needed an encouraging word to behave. Mom also said "Do what's best for the most people" and I've followed that. In your case, the risk is that she is hurt and won't come back and that would be tragic. Understanding and concern would be so valuable here, I know you love her and the grands. Be the bigger person and set the example. Call her and let her know that you understand how hard it is and will do everything you can to help. After all that's what life is all about, helping others. Start by keeping the children restricted to one room. I'm sure she'd go along with that and then work together. I know I sound like I'm pontificating but, it takes patience and setting an example of patience. Please try for the sake of good relations with your daughter. It's worth it.

These are the kind of kids that are obnoxious and unruly in public, and drive normal people nuts. Who wants to be around them!?!? Sorry, I'm not meaning to insult your daughter or your grandsons, but she is not doing them any favors. Ack!

It's not the children's fault; it's parents that let their kids run the show. You will be doing them a favor, in my opinion, if you enforce your rules. They need to be taught. And frankly, so does your daughter.

I worked as a nanny in homes and it was terrible what I saw, the parents just said we are tired, we don't want to be the bad person, the ogre in our child/ren's eyes. So, they just ignore it all and think its better and easier to let them do whatever.

But the thing is kids grow up to be tweens, then teenagers and then young adults.

Does she really want them running and jumping and kicking pets and such when they are older and really out of control.

If she doesn't control it now, it will get worse to where her kids can turn on her and hit her,etc.

And you aren't old fashioned, you are a parent/grandparent that knows that kids should not be like that and it won't help ignoring it.

Yes, she is overwhelmed but she still has to get on top of it all.

Get her help to help her be a parent the way she should and the kids rules and schedules that they really need in their lives.

You look at the show super nanny where she comes into homes and you see wild kids, that are running the roost, spitting on mom, hitting and taking off and doing all kinds of horrible things to their mom.

And the parent saying I can't control it, don't know what to do,

they need to help parents; give them training in how to be a good parent and make it mandatory and keep it up at different ages, otherwise there are going to be some horrible kids and adults in our lives.

And remember these kids will be in charge of our lives and the world.

It doesn't pay to give in to them at all.

Wow, for a daughter that wants to be with nature she sure is acting like her zen is being lazy on the couch. Sorry, I'm not sure how to put it more politely. It's lazy parenting to let the children rule the roost. Being a nature geek or free spirit, doesn't mean the kids get to run free to destroy grandma's house.
Now that you've mentioned your medical predicaments, she should be even more mindful of your simple wishes. Sure there will be times the kids might run, or take food into the wrong room or even forget and jump on the sofa but she should be thoughtful of your desires as you are of hers. Your following her vegan rules as far as the kids go. Your doing what should be her share of the house work it seems. It's time for her to grow up and respect your space. It sounds like your willing to be a super grandma if she would only respect the house rules. Being safe from falling objects, respecting your property, I don't see how she can argue against this. Sounds like your in between a rock and a hard spot right now. I suppose it would be good if you could get her to return and implement your rules on your own. When they bring food into other rooms,quietly tell the child to return to the room where the food is eaten. When the run tell them the rule politely with the suggestion of a time and place they can run. After dinner in the back yard. I personally think they should follow your rules without a reward, although a reward for another reason might tempt them and be acceptable to you. They can be the one who picks out the movie or the one who picks out a game first or a walk to the park. Maybe make smores for a really good day of being good in the house. Your pick of rewards but they have to behave (most all of the time) to get it. Stick to your guns but do it yourself. Quietly, sweetly, & use lots of honey. Mom will have to see, that's the way it is. And the deployment excuse doesn't cut it for me. If anything they need more structure and order. (with out a doubt all of this has crossed your mind, so good luck these next few months)

Are you old fashioned? Maybe, but is it bad? NO. Your brand of rules are very sensible. [No body pees in my house without hearing about it, drunk or not. If you can't hit the pot, get out.]

All I can say is - I couldn't live that way, so I wouldn't tolerate that behaviour in my home.

That's the point - it's YOUR home. Daughter doesn't get a say. Abide by the rules or stay in a motel. Personally, I wouldn't sugar-coat anything, or to try and jolly them along. Do it or don't stay here.

Harsh, I know. But your daughter doesn't seem to get it, does she? So spell it out.

Gee, my DD is 26 and doesn't put up with that kind of behavior from her 6 y/o! And never has! I really don't know what to suggest to you. I agree with all the other "my house, my rules", cause that's the way it is here. And with the health problems, there is no way I'd put up with it. Confrontational? Maybe, but your and your DH's health comes first, and she needs to understand that. She needs to stop and think about what the extra stess is doing to her father. And what might happen if he over does things with his heart condition.

You are all in my prayers.

Tami

I wouldn't put up with that from my pets, so I darn sure wouldn't put up with that from my kids, grand kids or anyone else's kids.

I havent read the responses yet,but I can say this much

She either respect your home and the way life is in your world,or else she can stay elsewhere,simple as that.
You may miss the kids,but what are you really missing? the friggin mess the little monsters make?

Nah,you arent out much if you lay down the law..and as far as that laundry goes..it would be moulding in a basket somewhere other than in my machines.
she'd learn..the hard way.

My grandkids are 4 and 2....and even they know enough to remove their shoes and respect Grammas new home.....they,not the parents, were told once--the first time that they came here--Grammas rules....and its been smooth sailing ever since...if the sailing becomes rough."Gramma" will handle the problem

Another add to the "Entitled Generation". I am
sorry, I know you love them because they are your heart.
I understand that.

But, I agree with just about everyone else. These are
the kind of kids that people hate to see coming, who
are always in trouble at school - and Mom fighting with
the teachers because she feels she is right, it appears.

In all honesty, I don't know how I would handle it, because
of my love for them, but if they were my grandkids, they
wouldn't act like that at my house - and if they did -
I would tell Mom she would have to take them somewhere
else. If you let Mom get away with that - you have
added to the "entitlement".

It would break my heart to know that other people would
hate my grandkids and shudder at the thought of them
coming.

Please give these kids a chance to be decent human
beings. Your daughter needs a reality check - big time.

Have you met your DD's like-thinking friends -- the people from whom she is renting the apartment?

Is your DD drug free? This whole 'home schooling, vegan, anti-vaccination, no discipline' stuff sounds a little like a cult. Maybe it's a thumb in the eye of 'authority' or reaction to too much exposure to military life.

Anyway, you can't put your own or your DH's health and sanity at risk by rolling over and putting up with this. I'd allow visits, not weekly stays, and on YOUR terms. It's your house, your kitchen, your washer/dryer. They ARE family, but also GUESTS in YOUR HOUSE. Sorry you have to point that out, but...you do.

Is this all really about something else? Some other, old issue?

chisue.... my daughter is drug free. Will not even take prescription drugs. Never, to my knowledge, did drugs, does not smoke or drink alcohol. She is very religious, 7th day Adventist. I had not mentioned that because i did not want to offend anyone. She was in the USMC for 4 years, and was very disciplined, and structured. She is proud of being a Marine, we were just talking about that today.
I really think this is NOT an old issue, come to surface. We have never had problems before. She has changed a lot in the last five years, since she has been involved with that church and the co-parenting people. She has just been convinced that this rigid way of thinking is the ONLY.