Without knowing if you are taking down the wall completely, it's all pretty much useless headscratching. The first step is to get the quotes to make that happen with a flush steel beam. No posts. If that can't be done with your budget, then perhaps wait until it can. It makes a big big difference to the space. It probably won't cost more than 10% of an average kitchen remodel budget, say 3-7K depending on what needs to happen for the point loads.

Do you want to make both those spaces a large kitchen or a kitchen and a breakfast nook? What is to the right of the open wall where it measures 7'9"?

Delete

This post was edited by jmunsh on Sun, Feb 9, 14 at 11:21

You know this person? You aren't the OP?

I know this member -- she is a friend. The 7'9" area should have been marked as a wall. I agree that the space could be so much better if she can convince her DH to put a steel beam in that load bearing wall. Maybe we can convince her DH to do that if we show her how wonderful the space could be with that wall dealt with?? Anyone have a way to arrange that space if the load bearing wall is only a beam in the ceiling?

Carol

P.S. Sorry Nashville and others for the previous post. My friend and new member jmunsh had my DH post the layout above for her project. I posted it on her behalf last night. When I replied this a.m. I assumed it would come under my name not hers. Obviously, I needed to sign out under her name and sign in on mine.

Ontario, no big deal. I was just confused. My sister in law and I did the same thing once.

Ill take a look later. Bumping this up hoping you get a response from some of the layout gurus.

Hi Folks,

Thank-you for all your suggestions! DH and I have decided that the wall will stay, we will try to work with the layout and use the money saved to invest in the renovation!

Thoughts as to how we can incorporate the wall as in successfully into the kitchen extension? I envision an island with available seating, thoughts as to how this may work?

Thanks,
J

Hi again,

I have realized, unfortunately, that I will not be able to have an island given all the walls need to stay. So, I am hoping for a small, but efficient and nicely finished kitchen. Seating in this room is not essential as we use the dining room for most meals. If we can find room for a few seats somewhere that would be a nice bonus. My big question is where to put the essentials such as fridge, sink, range and where to locate the prep area.

So, please help me get started with the design for a small kitchen layout with the space available.

Julie

Taking down the wall might not be as expensive as you think - it would be worth pricing out. Replacing a ten-foot wall in my kitchen with a LVL beam that wasn't sunk into the ceiling cost about $3-4K in my low labour cost area.

I have transcribed what I think is your layout onto graph paper (3" squares) in case anyone wants to work on it.

Here is a link that might be useful:

This post was edited by robotropolis on Mon, Feb 10, 14 at 11:10

I moved some stuff here - took out the stub wall at bottom and moved over your dining room door. Added prep sink to the stove area for safety (not trekking pots of boiling water across traffic aisle) and so cleanup and prep zones can be separate and accommodate 2 cooks. Do not love fridge placement in this one. Is there a wall on the right where you have it marked 7'9"?

How much money are you actually saving by not taking down the wall? Have you gotten several estimates?

So you are keeping all the walls I circled in pink? All of them are load bearing?

What used to be great room and dining room will now be kitchen? Where is your kitchen now?

I agree with robotropolis. It might not be as costly as you think. But it will drag out your remodeling time.

Since you're just collecting dream ideas at this point to convince hubby to tear down that wall, here's a plan that does that *and* shifts the doorways to the great room and the DR.

I'm assuming that your fridge is standard depth so if you can recess it in to the wall, it would make it seem less hulking next to 24" deep cabs.

I would put the MW next to the fridge, either on a shelf above or below the counter or get a MW drawer. That way kids can reheat items or make snacks without getting in the cook's way.

Dish storage will be in the upper cabs to the left of the sink. Silverware in a drawer to the left of the range (from plan view, not IRL). Pots, pans and other prep tools can be stored in the corner cab and in the base and upper cabs to the right of the range (plan view).

I added a 72" wide, 9" deep pantry cab on the top wall, partially recessed into the wall so that it doesn't intrude into the aisle too much. Don't know if that's a load bearing wall, too, so that's another question for a contractor.

PS Instead of a corner cab, you could opt to add a 6" pull-out cab between sink and corner and a 32" cab to the left of the range (allowing for spacers at the corner so that doors and drawers in the corner can open) and have the cab in the corner open towards the outer wall, next to the seating overhang. It would be less costly to go this route and would allow you to use every inch of storage.

I like Lisa's plan!

Forgot to add that the 112 in () is the length of the counter on that wall. I deducted 3" at each end to allow for doorway molding. If your molding is wider than 3", you'll need to adjust that span of cabs and counter.

I've got 4 w/o touching the load bearing wall (none quite satisfactory I'm afraid).

1) No walls, doorways changed. Prep sink counter can be a little deeper than 24", but not much. I think the fridge doors, drawers can open fully with a 28" deep wall next to it. MW is across the fridge in an upper cab.

Pantry cabs on both sides of the DR.

Sink and DW at different sides of the corner+ a 15" cab next to the corner. When DW door is closed there'd be about 34,5" b/w the edge of the DW to the edge of the 2' wall (assumed the opening from mudroom as 40"). When DW door open there'd be 18" wide walkway for about a foot.

2) Decreased GR door to 36" and the range counter wall to 26" and moved fridge to the widened (43") wall with filler or a narrow pullout. Added bar seats, but I don't think it'd be wise to have less than 4' b/w the GR wall and the range, so it might be better to eliminate them.

3) Moved cleanup to the exterior room and moved doorways from GR and DR next to each other.

4) GR door same as original. No separate prep sink. With a sink and UTC fridge the small room can be a snack, breakfast area.

Wow, it was so nice at the end of my work day to see so many responses. Thanks everybody for your creativity.

@robotropolis: Thank you very much for taking the time to both draw up my plan on graph paper and to find a creative solution for the layout. I like where you placed the fridge and stove, and the banquet area under the new generous window is lovely. Unfortunately, we are unable to move the two doorways as they are also in load bearing walls. The areas marked dining room and great room are part of an addition we did many years ago. Also, the old nub wall measuring 2 feet 9 inch also must stay.

@debark and others: Sadly, I am not in a position to consider taking down any of those inconvenient load bearing walls. My DH is firmly against even getting a quote on it as he doesn't feel the kitchen should need that much renovating as it is good enough space for him (can you guess who makes most of the meals in our home?),

@Peke: Yes sadly all the walls you circled in pink as well as the walls in the south side between kitchen areas and great room/dining room have to stay as is. My current small kitchen is on the right hand area marked kitchen space (west side). The east side marked also kitchen space is currently used for a desk and a bit of seating viewed through opening cut-out (sort of like a ticket booth LOL). This east side area marked kitchen space used to be a dining room prior to building our addition 20+ years ago.

Lisa_a I love what you have drawn up too. Sadly, it will need changes to accommodate those load bearing walls. I particularly like that shallow pantry idea. Do you think we could just have the seating on the either side of the window cut-out. Those seated can be seen from the cut-out (not as nice as what you have drawn, but still a thought. Good point about the molding around those two south door ways. I will be sure to account for those lost inches as the door ways have French doors on the that swing into the kitchen.

Everyone,

Anymore ideas that work with keeping those unfortunately load bearing walls as DH is not budging on that position? I appreciate everyone's help.

Julie

Sena01,

Oh you are so kind to draw up four wonderful version for me! I am pumped to examine them carefully. I am heading home for my 50 minute commute. I look forward to pouring over your clever layouts this evening and I will post back later.

Julie

One more with nothing moved.

Galley in prep side, hoping that fridge can work where I have it.

Cleanup side, 30 sink, DW and a 15" trash, not in ideal order and sink not centered in front of the pass through. 30" away from the trash12" deep hutch, so the entry from mudroom becomes 26,5" wide (if my assumption of 40" doorway is correct)

If you can do POSTS, I've seen some spiffy islands with nice looking posts through their middles.

Hi. No layouts. But I've attached a photo that may work for you if you have a casual dining room. It sort of mimics an island?

It used to be on cultivate under Stephanie's new kitchen. Sadly cultivate no longer exists. I've seen other photos of the kitchen and bar area floating around Pinterest though.

Sena01,

I just got a text message from Julie, the OP. She is so happy to have your plans. She is dealing with an urgent family matter so is tied up.

Everyone,

Which one of the plans done by Sena01 or other kind posters do you think work the best? She can't move any of the doorways or walls, so that eliminates some options.

I think the idea of separating prep area from clean-up is clever given there is a wall that has to be worked around anyway. I wondered about the lack of dishes on the prep side space, as I assumed the dish storage would go on DW clean-up sink side. How could this be worked around? I find I use some dishes during prep and certainly need them for plating. I see the dirty dishes can be passed through the pass-through window opening, but getting clean dishes might mean crossing the wall.

Can't wait to see your votes and opinions on what has been posted so far.

From someone else with awkward spaces and load-bearing walls in the midst of my kitchen, I totally get the OP's dilemma. All the experts here are coming up with some great creative ways to use the space as is, and they seem like they could be wonderful.

Still, if the budget (or time frame) won't permit even consideration of those obstacles, it's worth running the numbers on the cost of cabinetry and countertops etc for two distinct and slightly redundant spaces. I don't mean to belabor a point that the OP said is moot, but in the end we came to appreciate that a little fiddling with the wall (widening an existing opening) wasn't all that costly and was a wiser use of our very limited resources than other options. As you look at the options, @jmunsh, it's worth trying to guesstimate the relative costs of the cabinets/counters involved. (I used the Ikea layout software, and then multiply by a factor of whatever seems reasonable for more expensive cabinetry. The big box stores also have calculators that can give you some rough ideas of how much various types of counters will cost.) Good luck!

Thanks again everyone for your help and starting layouts. I am meeting with a KD tonight and we will look over the ideas together. Still no budging on the wall, but I am still hoping for a nice kitchen.

I appreciate your help.

Julie.

Bring your husband to meet with the KD if you can!