I think I would reverse the beverage center and pantry to get the pantry on the Kitchen end and the beverage center toward the Living end.

Or, what if you tucked the office where the refrigerator pantry is and put all refrigerator and pantry/beverage along that wall with the refrigerator closest to the work triangle.

You've really thought this out and it shows! Great start!

My first thought was also to flip the fridge and office. The fridge gets a lot of foot-traffic that you'll want to keep out of your way but within eyesight, and a kitchen office seems to invariably collect 'junk' that you'll want out of sight.

On the beams, I think your attitude is spot-on. I had similar beams plus a structural column to work around. If you can't change them, then embrace them -- and it does look like they'll 'define' your space nicely without closing it in. Once we learned to live with ours, we ended up really liking how they defined the space, and adding another on the 'odd' open end...

It's great that you've identified your challenges -- and I think they're all fixable.

Lighting can always be added -- electric lights are a wonderful thing! Plan your lighting around your work zones and activities. I have three different 'lighting themes' in my space -- Work (clean-up and cooking), Ambiance (dining), and Safety (walk-through after dinner). You can use the same fixtures to meet all three needs if you incorporate dimmers and plan your switches carefully. This is one area where you should NOT skimp! I don't mean choose the priciest fixtures, but rather plan your lighting carefully and add as many fixtures as you need because you already know what bad lighting is like...

IMO, you've done a really good job planning traffic flow around your doors and staircases. Having foot traffic between the sink and cooktop is my #1 kitchen peeve. It's flat-out dangerous! Not to mention annoying for the cook. For what it's worth, I also don't like corners -- the storage is sub-optimal and the cabinets are expensively thing they're good for (IMO) is directing traffic, and you're good there.

Your goals - Great that you've identified them.

BUT - You're widening the aisle between your sink and range so you can have two cooks there? OUCH! I don't see this working well at all. You'd both be butt to butt if you stay put, but if either one of you pivots, or if one opens the DW when the other moves without planning... For a ONE-person normal cooking mode, your layout looks GREAT - efficient, attractive, functional. If you really want to plan for two cooks, I'd plan for two separate zones whose paths don't cross. Maybe move the whole clean-up function to where the office is shown and pull the island closer to the range, swapping a large clean-up sink for a small prep sink. (For one cook, 4' should be ample.)

More storage is not a good goal.
Huh?! Seriously - more storage is not a good goal because you can never reach it. What you need is enough accessible storage in the right places, and to do that, you have to know exactly what you want to store and where and how you want to store it. I'd start by cleaning out your existing kitchen and tossing everything you dislike or never use. Cull your coffee mug collection down from 25 to 8 - or however many makes sense for your family. Donate those cheapo pots and pans now that you have nicer ones. Get rid of the stuff you don't need so you can tell how much stuff you do really need to store. Then break it into categories (cooking, baking, everyday dishes, serving pieces) ideal storage locations (near DW for dishes, near range for pots & pans, 'remote' for turkey platter) and storage types (pots & pans drawer, shelves for plates, appliance garage, utensil drawer). I know this is tedious, but knowing when you have enough storage space is priceless! It lets you move on to other priorities.

Do the same for counter space -- how much space do you need where? (My old kitchen had about 20 linear feet of counters, of which 7 were never used. Once I took the time to analyze exactly which counters I used (beside sink, stove, entertaining 'buffet' space) and didn't use (everything else), I knew how much counters I needed and could toss plans that gave me more counter space but were less good in other areas.

Can you switch the office zone with the micro and fridge? For one thing, the fridge door can't open enough when it's right up next to a wall. It would work to switch the micro and fridge, with the added benefit of placing the fridge closer to counter for landing space across the aisle...but that gets the microwave too far out of the kitchen for me, and blocked by the open fridge door.

If you can't have the office zone back out of the way like that, could you move the playroom doorway and inset the fridge and micro facing the kitchen?

Another option would be to put the fridge with the office zone and make a better pantry where the fridge and micro are now...Instead of having tiny, separated pantries.

Thank so much for the feedback. You are the best! I really appreciate your thoughts.

I am laughing about sweeby's butt to butt cooking description. That's exactly what we have now that I'm trying to get away from!

I'll work on incorporating your suggestions into the layout tonight and post this evening.

Thanks again!

We must all think a like here...my first thought was to switch the office into the back area too!

I keep thinking it's a shame to make part of the island be a standing desk. So I think, well, incorporate that into a message center, but then think your husband wouldn't like working facing a wall. So then I started thinking about all kinds of space age pop-ups, but that wouldn't be practical.

What would be practical, but might or might not suit the two of you, is to either incorporate a small standing desk into your living room design, or to get (or have made) a table top desk that can sit on the island (if that's his preferred location) with a platform for the laptop and drawers for accessories. There are things like this on the market, or you can have it made to match the kitchen. Either version could be moved (along with the computer) when you have company. That way you could have a single level island that will give you all that work and entertainment surface.

I'm with Sweeby on the sink and range. If you can offset them just a little it'll make the dancing cheek-to-cheek a lot better. One way to do that, especially if you move the fridge as the others have said, is to put the eating overhang on the short side on the other side of the island and shifting the sink to the left of the picture. This also gets seating out of the main passage.

This does block the playroom door a bit, but people will clump in the main passage badly enough without putting chairs there for them to really block the way with. Or you could remove the side portion altogether.

You also have a large office zone incorporated. Do you currently have a kitchen office in use? Is it something you want to have open to the passage? A lot of people find kitchen desks are clutter accumulators. You could free up a lot of kitchen space if you put in a message center cabinet, with charging station, calendars, etc., and put the real office stuff in a freestanding desk armoire, if you need it. Is there room, both in floor space and interior design, for that in the area to the left of picture from the entry in the DR, or something?

I'm also concerned about your walkways. You have less than 30" in the passage by the stairs. OUCH! It's really narrow by the playroom door too! I don't know if this is even up to the general code. I applaud you for coming up with something that squeezes everything in, but passage space is very important.

Oh, dear! I didn't mean this to sound so negative. I'll post it in case there's anything useful to you in it, but I really do think the overall design is very nice, and you'll end up with a beautiful kitchen.

darker blue is approximate "door open" space. Moved the door to the playroom.
{{gwi:1708318}}

Do you really have two cooks working every night?
And if so, what is the division of labor?
Right-handed or left?
Same time, or staggered?

Thanks again for all of the help. I've done some modifications and posted them below. I reversed the beverage center and fridge on the plan(thanks for the suggestion), but I got it wrong on the elevation.

From sweeby's recommendations, I drew the elevations and placed all of my kitchen items in the drawers and cabinets. I realized that I don't need the appliance garage after all... Unless I buy the bigger food processor that I've got my eye on... I also realized that I needed more drawers that I was planning and I ended up annexing a tiny closet that would work better as casework. It gives me four more inches in a space that was only 12" wide.

I tried switching the office and the fridge, and I really like the office in the back corner. I uploaded a plan showing that. I couldn't figure out where to put the microwave then, and I'm not sure that my fridge works well on the south wall. I was picturing the south wall as a non-kitchen-y part of the kitchen since you have to walk through to get to the living room. While I want to use that space, I want to limit the feel of walking through the kitchen. Maybe a cabinet front refer would accomplish that? I'm not sure this is really a problem, it could just be that I'm used to that wall not being part of the current kitchen. I've also toyed with putting a bigger pantry in the fridge location and uploaded a plan like that to see what you think. I also really like the pantry in the back corner, but relocating the other items is harder. I want everything tucked away in a corner! :) I think we could live without the desk area, but I'm kind of coveting it as a lowered counter space too. I'm short and often move to the dining table to mix by hand, knead or grind spices. I thought the lowered counter would work well for that. Moving the playroom door is too hard for me, but it's a good idea.

I like the temp desk on the island idea and had toyed with it myself. It's a good fall back plan. I just need to think of a good place to stash the countertop desk when guests come. My passage ways are bigger than they look, the dimensions came out mangled on my first drawing. I fixed them on the new one. They're not huge, but they're all at least 3 feet.

We don't have an office area now. Instead we have laptops and cell phones scattered around the kitchen.

I think you're completely right about too many chairs at the end of the island. With a desk chair on the opposite side and stools at the south end of the island, it would have been too crowded. I took out the island seating, which let me shift down the sink for less cheek-to-cheek dancing. I shifted the stove north and added a little 42 inch high wall at the end of the counter by the stove. Voila! Lap top ledge!

bmorepanic - Wow! That's really neat that you were able to draw on my drawing. Good thoughts on showing the appliance doors - I added those to my layouts. I really like the dish rack against the wall, but I want a super speedy route from kitchen to play room. Now I need to think about where my dish rack will go...

We don't have two cooks working every night. In fact, thinking about it more, we used to cook together a lot more, but now that there's a baby in our lives, it's often one person in the kitchen and one person on baby duty. We're two right-handed cooks, division of labor is that I cook everything that doesn't have meat and my husband cooks everything that does have meat. We both tackle different recipes at the same time.

Okay, here are some more drawings. Thanks again for all of the thoughtful comments. If you have any more ideas, I would love to hear them.

Here's the drawing that I did with elevations:

Here are the elevations:

And here are the layouts with the office and pantry moved. I did these ones first, so they don't show some of the other modifications that could also be added (moving the sink and range, etc). What do you think of them? Any ideas on microwave placement? Thoughts on walking by the fridge/through the kitchen to get to the living room?

If you aren't completely sick of my kitchen already and have more ideas, they'd be very helpful.

Thank you!

I like the last 2. In either case, I'd put the microwave next to the fridge.

I think your aisle is generous enough for someone to get by with the fridge door open. It's open rarely and for a short time...I don't think it should be that big a problem.

In the last plan you could have that whole section to the left of the fridge at a lower height for working...Or have you considered lowering the counter on one side of the range? (probably the left since it's a shorter, limited spot)

Well, phew!! I'm glad those passages were just mismarked. Three feet is a bit tight, but sufficient. You might consider narrowing the cabinets on the turn into the grill passage, anyway, but that's the trade off of carrying trays vs. storage.

You're right that cabinet panels on the fridge will minimize that middle of the kitchen look on the way to the living room. It's not like it has to disappear with the kitchen open to the room, but that will smooth out the transition.

The shifted range and sink on top looks good.

Regarding the office, think about how your family will function in the future when the baby (and siblings?) will be running, babbling, shouting, trotting a tail of half a dozen friends, sticking unbelievably long legs into every walkway, sullenly looking for things to eat, etc. With the noise and activity of a growing up family, do you think you'll want some quiet to make calls? Or just to think? Or will you want to be in the thick of things?

I like the office in the grill passage if you want it to truly be part of the kitchen. That puts it there without closing it off too much, but keeps it separate from nosy guests wandering past, kids running (at least here they have to slow a little for the turn), etc. But while you do have your ledge, it would put your husband standing in a walkway (not too important) and facing the far wall (better than right in front of his nose, but still a problem.

If you want to go really custom you could do the mobile stand-up desk on the island, you could steal a little space on the seating side from behind the sink to have a special shelf or cupboard for it. If you want to go generic, you could either save a bit of standard cupboard space for it, or stash it in your closet, depending on the way you live.

The pantry in the grill passage space makes the most sense, however. It's a great place for something like that. If you do this you might consider making the counter return in the grill passage, or the counter in the living room approach, a rolling station. That is, the lower counter you want for a work station. If you integrate it correctly, and put polished stone on it (cool smooth surface for baking). Even better if there aren't uppers, or if the uppers are a bit high to give you shoulder room. It's a nice feature to have in a kitchen. If you put your charging station/message center, whatever, adjacent, you could toss your phones and laptops there when you weren't baking. Something that works with your current lifestyle, without devoting a lot of kitchen space to a full fledged office/desk thing.

As to the microwave, if you have the pantry in the grill passage, and the fridge and lower counter in the living room passage, you can probably fit the MW the latter place too. Make it a snack center rather than a beverage center. :)

Hm... That's what we don't know about your lifestyle. Is the beverage fridge a luxury or a must? If the main fridge moves to this side of the kitchen does that make it convenient enough for sodas, etc.?

After encouraging you to move your office out of your kitchen I don't think I should ask you to move the bar as well! You'll run out of house. But since the lowered counter is kitchen functional for you (whether or not it's a true desk or a "rolling station") maybe that would be the answer? Leave it as the office and make a proper bar/beverage area in the dining room?

Okay, my head is exploding because you've fed it too many great drawings full of good ideas! Lots of them will work. It's the winnowing...

A couple of ideas -

If you have the pantry and fridge together (which I like), you could put the microwave in the pantry. Lots of folks here have it that way and seem to like it. That also 'hides' another generally-less-attractive appliance.

I suspect you're may be starting long-term shift with the "one watches the baby, one cooks" trend. Kids need constant watching for a long, long time...

I see you've marked out 'cleaning' and 'cooking' zones, but what about 'prep'? Statistically, that's where most cooks spend the majority of their time... From looking at your plans, I'd think the logical prep space would be on the island at the sink, facing out to the living room. That seems like a very pleasant place to work, and should be very functional later on, once the kids need a little less 'hands on' watching and homework kicks in.

There is one in every crowd.

All four corners of the island and for sure the corner between range wall and hall way should be softened. The range wall corner particularly sticks out into the most direct walking path. The Gypsy fortune teller sees a family with black and blue hips.

If someone is seated at the side of the island, your prep space on the island disappears. If someone is seated behind the sink, they'll get damp. If someone is seated on the playroom door side, they will partly block the aisle AND the playroom door.

Consider embedding a cabinet in the side of the pantry closet that faced into the aisle. If you move the playroom door, consider embedding a hutch or an entire pantry by chiseling a tiny corner from the playroom.

Toaster, micro, coffee pot, etc. probably should be near the ref. In the last drawing, consider a tiny hand wash/drink of water/coffee pot filler sink. It can easily double as an entertainment bar. It also makes the most sense as a dish storage area - so maybe flip the dw and the trash?

It is unfortunately also the perfect junque collector. Consider bowing to the inevitable with a small msg center-art work display area with a covering lift door - perhaps one made out of a full height utility cabinet. Location of some such thing should be closer to the entrance you actually use. You can also create a throw down area near the actual door so it doesn't automatically travel to the kitchen.

Do you want a sizable tack board or chalk board somewhere?

Do you want some down low children's storage? When do kids start making toast?

As someone who has a fridge in a walkway and my work zone (cleaning/prep/cooking) more protected, I will tell you I love it! I have 2 kids age 2 and 5. I love that the 5 year old can get water out of the fridge and not get in my way in the kitchen.

The one thing I am changing in my remodel is to move the dishes out of my cooking zone and making the plastic ones low enough for my kids to reach.

Our kitchen is too small for 2 fridges, but we have a small bev fridge outside in our BBQ island that works well for entertaining and also for kids to get their own juice box. Of course it's really convenient to the family room kitchen area.

Hope that helps....by the way the kindergarten homework does take up quite a bit of space! ;)

I don't necessarily agree about the island comments so much:

You don't get soaked USING a kitchen sink (I don't anyway) so why would someone get splashed nearby?

Are people going to be sitting there during heavy prep or more when its done? Unless you are giving cooking demonstrations, I think it is reasonable to have certain functions overlap.

Are there going to be people running up and down the aisles and in and out of the playroom and seated at the island all at the same time? I doubt it.

The kitchen is large, even though it is not a perfect rectangle and has some traffic patterns. If there are not some areas of overlapping functions kitchens would (and Do) get Huge, and then start to lose effeciency because things get too separated.

When the kitchen was moved to become a center of activity, this is when some of these other issues started to come up. I don't think most people would go back to the kitchen stuck off on its own but that is the only way to avoid "non work triangle" functions (walkways seating doorways etc.) from coming into the mix.

palimpsest, I didn't mean to offend you if I did.

Everybody's experience is different. I come from a large family. My step mother has exactly that setup with the island, the size, the seating, the relationship to the range. Every time she entertains for any number - every single seat is filled and the person in the center behind the sink has to stay pulled back. There are people and dogs running up and down every aisle and clogging everything. And I'm talking about the adults!

The bar flys wish the island was deeper. In her setup, the appetizers end up on the island while the rest is cooking and the bar flys would like to be able to reach all of them without moving.

As kids grow, they get playmates and perhaps siblings. They all hang around the kitchen - get drinks and snacks, make their own sandwiches and become independent chefs.

I regularly splash all over the my 15" tall backsplash. If I had that type of island - a permanent pond would develop back there complete with tadpoles... And I right now have a sleeve damp to the elbow and damp places across the tummy zone - prep for split pea and ham soup.

This doesn't mean I think everyone splashes water everywhere (altho dh is actually worse than I). It's a simple statement for the op to hear or ignore.

It's the same thing with prep time. If I entertain, nobody sees me do more than a last minute thing - like whipping cream. (might mean I'z control freak) But others in the same family do most things after the crowd arrives and usually with one or two others helping.

The thing I like about this kitchen is that all that is possible. I never know if its possible to for anyone satisfy all the needs of whoever is posting until stuff is suggested and the poster accepts it.

I am not at all offended. I may not agree with everything but none taken and no offense meant either.

There is only a certain amount of real estate in this kitchen (and in my particular neighborhood its easily twice what most people have--urban, not suburban)

Changing the island configuration, deeper, bigger, etc. to separate functions only puts in more in the traffic patterns. There is only so much space to go around.

There would be a whole school of thought that would make that island a peninsula, thin it down and have the eating separated from the sink area completely by having a long skinny peninsula attached at the pantry closet area.

This would eliminate one aisle but it would also restrict traffic to the appliance, grilling area to Through the kitchen, and that is a trade off. (This harkens to vehicle "traffic engineering" in some respects. Long open straightaways allow people to speed through, curves make people think about speeding and think about taking shortcuts)

Also think, multiple family members etc. are around the island helping with prep or preparing things, maybe some will be eating. but at that point won't most prep be turned around and at the stove?

In my parents early (1969) island, anyone who was not at the island involved in helping was "in the way" --are people really actively eating when there is still a lot of cooking going on? (or doing dishes) Sure it may overlap, temporally, but Most of the activity of one vs the other are going to be mutually exclusive

I'm liking Bmore's suggestion of swapping the trash and dw so the area to the left of the fridge (and microwave) in the last plan can be dish storage, separating dishes from cooking area.

I also favor removing the office from the kitchen and gaining the pantry area in the back hall, but that's a tough call and a personal use one. I have my little desk area in a tucked in alcove off my kitchen...Close, but not visible, and it's quite handy. -And always a big mess, so 'not visible' is big to me.

Looking at my window behind my sink, I think that sink splashing must go more back than forward, and a sink in a center island isn't for me, but I think the 2 ft of counter behind the sink and a cloth or paper towels kept handy should protect the seated.

I think the aisles are plenty wide without softening corners, but I happen to hate angled or rounded off corners, so that colors my opinion... ;-)

Hm... New economic opportunity. 20" tall, free-standing, glass folding screens for use at island sinks... Monogrammed for an extra fee. Custom sandblasting available on request.

Thanks for all of the great feedback. It's all good food for thought. You've helped me think about a lot of new approaches (as probably evidenced by my really long post back in the middle of the message - sorry about that). I'm going to copy all of this and put it in my kitchen file to go over with my husband tonight, and to refer back to as we finalize all of our decisions.

I do fear for my hips (or at my height, my waist) at all of the square corners, but my thoughts about corners are similar to rhome410's, so form will win over function on that front.

This forum is wonderful! I know where I'll be spending all my reading time during the next few months.