It is really hard to diagnose these things. I appreciate all the help and links that have been extremely helpful. I may post some pictures tonight. I don't think my thatch is as bad as I thought but I have been reading that a dethatch may help. they are definitely white webs in and under the thatch but I have not seen a single worm or grub or anything. I have seen a flurry of moths at one point as I mentioned early. I am partly wondering if the grass is drying out and fighting dormancy. The backyard looks a lot better more green. The thing that gets me is that there is no spots it's a noticeable discoloration and dryness in. the entire lawn. After my last application I was expecting a nice green up. I refuse to put down an insecticide if I don't need it. I've read multiple sites stating that BT is a viable option for the webworm.

HI Bttrflii I got your Nerd joke. When one of my colleagues showed up with a stack of AV mags for me to borrow, I did indeed think she was a nerd. But I was a "recreational drinker" ... er, grower ... back then. Trying to stave off full-blown addiction. I would much rather discuss AVs than football anyday. Linda, I am glad you explained about the AVSA website, it used to be great, anyone could access photos and lists. With the new website, only members can access that info, so I will join. Now I am wondering if I will get my mag or not it I join. Now that I have been collecting and growing for a few years, I have built up basic knowledge so being a member would be more meaningful to me now. Joanne

ZM, "if such a stimulus is applied to one part of a plant, might the response be exhibited in only a part of the plant" Very likely, sometimes. However, there is considerable evidence of remote signaling. So, a stress in one part of a plant can trigger a response in other parts. Percy Wright, a Canadian plant breeder, told a story of how "His uncle moved from Saskatchewan had moved west to the Okanagan and for sentimental reasons had grafted some ultra hardy Saskatchewan plums onto a few branches of the peach trees in his orchard. A harsh test winter arrived after a few years which decimated not only the peach crop, but also the trees themselves. Most were killed outright or at the least severely injured. However the peach trees with ultra hardy Saskatchewan plums grafted in the branches had no winter damage whatsoever!" The environmental stress (cold? short days?) was detected by the ultra hardy plums, which then communicated an appropriate response -- presumably to the roots. When they went dormant, the rest of the tree had no choice but to follow. Here's a more recent example of remote signaling: Plant Mol Biol. 2003 Nov; 53(4): 493-511. Rootstock effects on gene expression patterns in apple tree scions. Jensen PJ, Rytter J, Detwiler EA, Travis JW, McNellis TW "Like many fruit trees, apple trees (Malus pumila) do not reproduce true-to-type from seed. Desirable cultivars are clonally propagated by grafting onto rootstocks that can alter the characteristics of the scion. For example, the M.7 EMLA rootstock is semi-dwarfing and reduces the susceptibility of the scion to Erwinia amylovora, the causal agent of fire blight disease. In contrast, the M.9 T337 rootstock is dwarfing and does not alter fire blight susceptibility of the scion. This study represents a comprehensive comparison of gene expression patterns in scions of the 'Gala' apple cultivar grafted to either M.7 EMLA or M.9 T337. Expression was determined by cDNA-AFLP coupled with silver staining of the gels. Scions grafted to the M.9 T337 rootstock showed higher expression of a number of photosynthesis-related, transcription/translation-related, and cell division-related genes, while scions grafted to the M.7 EMLA rootstock showed increased stress-related gene expression. The observed differences in gene expression showed a remarkable correlation with physiological differences between the two graft combinations. The roles that the differentially expressed genes might play in tree stature, stress tolerance, photosynthetic activity, fire blight resistance, and other differences conferred by the two rootstocks are discussed." The stress (fire blight infection) affected the scion, but the rootstock somehow mediated the response. You're right that stress "can encompass a wide range of factors, many of which we might not think of as 'stress'." To paraphrase Forest Gump, "Stress is as stress does." In the broad sense, any sort of change in conditions is stressful. Many kinds of environmental stress are easily tolerated and usefully exploited by plants (or animals) long accustomed to them. However, unfamiliar changes/conditions can provoke more profound disturbances. Changes in photoperiod, for example, are often exploited by plants to provide a trigger for flowering. But when certain plants (e.g., tropical) are exposed to the wide ranging photoperiods of northern regions, they may respond oddly. In its native habitat (Brazil) the beautiful Amaryllis fulgida (Hippeastrum striatum var. fulgidum) bears a cluster of 2-4 flowers on a scape around 18 inches tall. But when the species was first cultivated in Britain in the early 19th century, it changed dramatically. "This specimen was imported by Mr. Harrison, from Brazil, and was drawn at Aighburgh, April, 1832. Some of the leaves measured twenty-nine inches in length and nearly three in breadth; the first flower-stem (bearing eight flowers) attained the height of thirty inches, and would probably have become somewhat taller, but was generously cut for the completion of the present figure; a second scape immediately succeeded it, twenty-eight inches high and having six flowers." By the end of the century, the gigantism was gone. Generations of offspring from the original specimens soon became adapted to the British seasons and reverted to the original "type." Other differences in "stress" are obvious. I was thinking of various species of roses that tolerate very different conditions, and are also stressed by very different conditions. Forest species (e.g., Rosa pinetorum) are weakened by exposure to full sun, whereas R. arkansana thrives in full light. R. rugosa happily tolerates salt spray when grown near the ocean, while others are likely to be killed. Some favor in humus (woodland types) while others grow and flower best in sand. Furthermore, there are distinct "sensitive periods" (or "critical periods") in plant development. An environmental condition that is usually tolerated without much difficulty can become very stressful during a fairly brief period of transition. And one more item that I just found while looking for something else: Biosystems. 1995 ;36 (1):71-7 8527698 Adaptive determinism during salt-adaptation in Sorghum bicolor. H Seligmann , G N Amzallag During adaptation to salinity, plants of Sorghum bicolor showed malformations affecting the leaves in development (DPL). At the end of the adaptation process, the plants were regrouped according to their pattern of DPL response. The distribution of the plant population in different patterns depended on environmental conditions. However, a positive relationship between the frequency of a pattern and its rate of development has been found. Similarly, a negative relation between the frequency of a pattern and the rate of senescence for the same pattern has been observed. The results reveal the existence of an orientation of the plant response towards the patterns with highest developmental rate and lowest rate of senescence. This property is defined as "adaptive determinism". Results indicate that the NaCl acts as a trigger for adaptation to a whole range of environmental perturbations. This suggests that adaptation to salinity is not a pre-programed response of the plants, and may be related to learning processes occurring in animals. Amzallag made some very interesting studies of the effects of salt on sorghum. I just decided to make a bibliography of his papers. Karl Here is a link that might be useful: Salt stress in Sorghum bicolor

anney, sorry if I confused anyone. What you will see is the RECORD high and low for all 365 days. Along with average temps per day. For instance, lets take March 15. It won't show temps for every March 15 in recorded history! But it will show the average high and low for all March 15's and it will show the record high and lows for all March 15's. If I click on Averages, then Daily, then scroll to March 15 I'll see this: 15 7:14 AM 7:10 PM 54°F 32°F 43°F 81°F (1990) 10°F (1993) That's sunrise, sunset, avg H, avg L, Mean, Record high 81 in 1990 and Record low in 1993. I find these record Hs and Ls meaningful. Looking at that month's worth you can plan good plant out dates. Not exactly what the poster was after but useful info and easy to get to.