Use lard, not butter. You will have the most beautiful pie crust and nobody will leave a crumb. Here's the recipe I use and it's always a success:

I searched for years for my perfect piecrust recipe - then one day I found it. Here it is:

NATHAN'S NEVER FAIL PASTRY
=============================
These quantities make enough pastry for 3 double-crust pies or 3 1/2 dozen tart shells - muffin size.
5 cups flour
1 teasp salt
2 teasp baking powder
1 lb (454 grams) Tenderflake lard
2 teasp white vinegar
1 egg - slightly beaten. Add water to vinegar and egg to make 1 cup
1) Mix together flour, salt and baking powder. Cut in lard until crumbly (using two knives.)
2) Add liquid and mix gently with hands. (I use a fork to help me here.) Roll into a ball.
3) Roll out amount needed on a floured board. Refrigerate or freeze remainder.

Source: 'I've GOT To Have That Recipe'
Doubleday Canada - Victoria, B.C. 1986

My tip: After step two I often put it in the fridge for an hour to make it firmer and easier to roll out.

* Check quantity of apples by slicing them first into empty pieplate before lining with pastry to see if you have enough. Then remove and wipe plate clean again.
1) Preheat oven to 425 F (218 C)
2) Peel and slice apples into a mixing bowl. In another small bowl combine the dry ingredients and pour them over apples. Toss well to coat all over.
3) Line pieplate with pastry and pile coated apple slices into pieplate. Dot apples with pieces of butter.
4) Roll out top crust and put on pie, flute edges, brush crust with the milk and sprinkle with sugar.
5) Bake 10 minutes at 425F (218C) then lower heat to 350F (177C) for 35 - 40 minutes or until crust is golden.

SharonCb

PS I meant to say before I pressed submit....Welcome to the forum Barb! I hope you will stay and post often!

SharonCb

Helpful hints:

-Choose a low-gluten flour to begin with. A bleached low-protein (gluten) flour such as one of the Southern All-Purpose Flours - White Lily, Martha White, Gladiola, or Red Band. If you mill your own flour, use soft wheat, or commercial "whole wheat pastry flour". Spelt is also a good low-protein flour for wholegrain pastry. These low-protein flours are best used for pastry, biscuits, quick breads and muffins - recipes where you don't want a lot of gluten development. Every step in pastry making is geared towards avoiding gluten development.

-Use a solid fat (your choice - butter, shortening, lard, coconut oil, or a combination of them - shortening or coconut oil PLUS butter = better flavor, as an example of mixing fats).

Mix half the COLD fat in with the flour until it is mixed very fine. This step coats the flour and "shortens" the development of the gluten strands and creates tenderness. Where the fat coats the flour, water can't penetrate and develop gluten - which shortens the strands of gluten. This is why it is sometimes called a "shortcrust pastry".

-The other half of the fat needs to be cut into 1/4-inch (pea-size) cubes and VERY cold when added to the first mixture. Mix just enough to incorporate the fat, but still have fairly large chunks remaining, this builds flakiness.

"Those little blobs of fat melt to form pockets in the dough. The moisture turns to steam, pushing apart layers of dough into the blisters that are characteristic of flaky pastry."

-Keep mixing to a minimum so gluten does NOT develop once you add the liquid.

-Keep everything COLD. You can even freeze the flour in the bowl before starting. Chill the dough after it's mixed together by forming it into a "puck", wrap in plastic wrap, and chill in the refrigerator before rolling it out.

-Do NOT stretch the rolled-out pastry when placing it in the pan. Gluten strands are elastic, have a good memory, and will shrink back to it's earlier "relaxed" state - prior to stretching.

-If you use a food processor (Martha Stewart's recipe is is easy AND excellent), freeze the fat before you add it. This offsets the heat generated by the speed of processing. Blend in short pulses to keep the dough from being over-mixed.

-You will find pastry recipes that use liquid cooking oil, which acts like a warm fat and coats each particle of flour so well NO gluten develops. Oil pastries are very tender, but they are also mealy, rather than flaky. Oil pastry is also easy to make. Just don't take it to the fair to be judged in the pie division. Oil pastries never make it in the contest from my experience as a Foods Judge. Oil pastry never meets the set standards for a great pastry. If you do make an oil pastry recipe, roll the dough between two sheets of waxed paper to make these fragile crusts easier to handle.

-Cold water keeps the fat cold, but ice water doesn't seem to have any improved effect, according to the "experts". Add as little water as possible. As soon as lumps of dough adhere to each other, STOP adding water. The mixture will be "shaggy" more-or-less. Continue mixing it together, just avoid adding more water. Extra liquid develops extra gluten. Too much gluten development is a common reason for making pastry tough. Excessive gluten also makes a sticky dough that is difficult to roll out - which means you will need to add too much bench flour, which equals a tough pastry.

-In order to make a stronger crust to hold something like a hearty meat filling, choose a pastry recipe that contains an egg. The protein in the egg reinforces the structure.

-You will also find recipes that call for vinegar. If you are using National Brand All-Purpose Flour (Pillsbury, Gold Medal) which has more gluten in them than the Southern All-Purpose flours, adding an acid ingredient, like vinegar, adds one more tenderizer into play. Acids soften gluten.

-You can also compensate for a high-protein flour (National Brand All-Purpose) by adding a little more fat.

-Grainlady

I use all butter, but my crusts don't sag or burn. As grainlady says, don't add too much water (will also eliminate sag) and when making a one-crust tart, once I have rolled the pastry and filled the tart pan, made the edge etc, I refrigerate the raw shell for at least half an hour before filling and baking.

Grainlady is a goddess. I'm not a goddess, so when someone like me says that Martha Stewart's pe sucrée (sweet piecrust), which uses only butter and is made entirely in the food processor, is a no-fail recipe, you can believe it. I've been making pies with that one recipe for at least twenty years, and it always comes out great. And I turned out some real messes before then.

Oh, and I have that gizmo that keeps the edge of the crust from burning. It does work. So does plain old aluminum foil, but it's not as quick and easy to deploy as the gizmo.

The pastry recipe posted by SharonCB is my current favorite, it's so easy to work with and my family loves it. I've used all lard and half butter/half lard, both with good results.

Grandma always told me to keep the water cold, keep the fat cold. Add water a tablespoon at a time so it doesn't get too "wet" because then you need more flour to roll it out. Don't overhandle the dough or it will be tough.

I don't have a gizmo to cover the edge and I've never had to cover the edge with foil either, but the crusts never burn.

My family always gobbles up the pie and my Mother, the self proclaimed "pie crust expert" says the crust is delicious. I wouldn't know, I don't eat the stuff, I scrape the filling off the pastry and throw the crust away, LOL.

Annie

VODKA!! That's the magic!

Here is a link that might be useful: vodka crust

I learned this summer a new technique from King Arthur Flour (dot com). I cut into the flour half the fat (shortening) by hand with a pastry cutter. Then I place the second half of the fat (butter) on a floured surface and pound it with my rolling pin to about 1/8 inch thick. I take the pounded butter, which is nice and cold, and just crumble it into the flour/shortening mixture and toss it a little. Then I sprinkle in my water, which has a little vinegar mixed in, and proceed as usual. I'll be trying that vodka crust ASAP, though! I've also found that bleached flour works best for me.

I never could make a decent pie crust until I watched my stepmother make hers when I got to know her in my early 30's. My father liked to have a little something sweet in the evenings at times...but the fit came on him somewhat suddenly. He'd wander through the kitchen as she was making dinner or cleaning up afterwards and say, "B, do we have anything sweet?" Out would come the container of flour, shortening & salt she kept ready in the fridge. She'd pile some up on the counter, dribble some ice water into it, roll it out, and in 5 minutes or so put a pie in the oven. A couple of extra minutes for a 2 crust pie. She always had blueberries in the freezer (picked down by the power lines in season) and her own mince meat in the pantry if she didn't have any fresh apples, peaches or other fruits on hand.

She just kept everything cold and "worked" it as quickly as possible and her crust was always flaky and light.

My father is gone now, so she doesn't make pies as often (or on as short a notice)but when she does, she hasn't lost the skill.

Crisco, lard, butter or a combo...they all work as long as you keep it cold and work it quickly so the warmth of your hands doesn't melt the fat.

I have two of the gizmos that cover the edges, and they work very well. I used half butter and have Crisco, although I have used all Crisco with good results. I also add ICE water a little at a time and make sure it is not too wet. They I cover the pie with the gizmo that keeps the edges from darkening and VOILA, it is always good. (Well, mostly always, I have had a couple of disasters in 40 years).
Lindac is right about the vodka crust. It is very good. however, I do not used the food processor like the recipe states. When I do, it mixes too well and is too wet and does not turn out. If, however, I just mix it by hand, the vodka recipe always turns out well for me. (But I sure hate wasting perfectly good drinkable vodka for a piecrust, LOL)
My crusts turn out best if the dough is more on the dry side than the wet side. It is a little tricky getting it so it isn't too dry to roll out without being too wet.
Give it another shot.

Foolproof Pie Dough
- makes one 9-inch double-crust pie -

The trick to this pie crust is the inclusion of vodka. Eighty-proof vodka, which is 60 percent water and 40 percent alcohol, adds moistness to the dough without aiding in gluten formation since gluten doesn't form in ethanol. Although the recipe includes 8 tablespoons of liquid, the alcohol vaporizes during baking, resulting in a tender crust that only contains 6 1/2 tablespoons of water. Because of the extra liquid, the dough will be moister than most standard pie doughs and will require up to 1/4 cup more flour.

Ingredients
2 1/2 cups (12 1/2 ounces) unbleached all-purpose flour
1 teaspoon table salt
2 tablespoons sugar
12 tablespoons (1 1/2 sticks) cold unsalted butter, cut into 1/4-inch slices
1/2 cup cold vegetable shortening, cut into 4 pieces
1/4 cup cold vodka
1/4 cup cold water

Procedure
1. Process 1 1/2 cups flour, salt, and sugar in food processor until combined, about 2 one-second pulses. Add butter and shortening and process until homogeneous dough just starts to collect in uneven clumps, about 15 seconds (dough will resemble cottage cheese curds and there should be no uncoated flour). Scrape bowl with rubber spatula and redistribute dough evenly around processor blade. Add remaining cup flour and pulse until mixture is evenly distributed around bowl and mass of dough has been broken up, 4 to 6 quick pulses. Empty mixture into medium bowl.

2. Sprinkle vodka and water over mixture. With rubber spatula, use folding motion to mix, pressing down on dough until dough is slightly tacky and sticks together. Divide dough into two even balls and flatten each into 4-inch disk. Wrap each in plastic wrap and refrigerate at least 45 minutes or up to 2 days.

Good luck!
Sherry

You have great advice for making the dough.
Let me add a tip for baking: put the pie on the lowest oven rack. That bakes the bottom crust well, and should eliminate your sagging problem.

Wow! everyone thanks so much! You are all so generous with your time and suggestions.

I will look for Tenderlake lard, but if I can't find it, are you talking about the lard that is the fat cut off of beef? My DH uses that to make food for the birds. I have to admit that I love the taste of butter, but perhaps using 100% butter just isn't going to work.

And I do think that I have been adding too much water to my crusts. I have had trouble rolling them out because they were too dry, and I think I have over compensated for that. And I have used an organic white flour with the germ restored. Maybe that has not been the best choice.

The vinegar is interesting as is the vodka. Never would I have thought of either one.

When I looked up the Martha Stewart pate sucree, it said it was used for tarts. Are you using it for pies as well? As in the sloped edges that sag every time for me?

And I think I will invest in the gizmo. And put the pie on the lowest rack. I have been putting it on the upper one.

Thank you all. You are the greatest!

Barb...I think now that perhaps Tenderflake is a Canadian brand, so it doesn't matter what brand it is. And no it isn't beef fat, it's pork and it's processed to a clean white colour with a soft texture. It usually comes in bricks, like butter or in tubs like soft margarine. Here's a photo of what we buy here in Spain:

SharonCb

Barb, the fat from beef is suet, it is not lard. Don't use it, that would be just awful! Let the birds have it or add it to homemade mincemeat, but it's not a pastry ingredient.

Lard is made from pig fat. Leaf lard is the fat around the kidneys, supposed to be the best kind. I find lard at my local grocery sometimes, but it's nearly always available at the local hispanic markets.

I do agree on the food processor problem with the vodka crust. I bought a little bottle of vodka especially for pie crust, LOL, and it was far to wet in the food processor but came out fine when mixed by hand. Weird.....

I can't manage not to "overheat" the dough anyway when I use the processor and then I have to refrigerate or freeze the dough for an hour and I waste too much time.

I've gone back to my pastry blender and a fork....

Annie

I use the processor most times....the secret it just use a few short blips....AND to have the butter frozen when you use it....I cut the stick down the length into 4 parts....then cut that on the short end to make "diced butter" I guess I could grate it but dicing works.
The reason you are getting mush in the FP is you are over processing and the fat gets too soft.
Frozen butter and then just blip blip blip the processor.
Then I dump into a bowl, add the vodka and toss...then water....and there you are!
Linda C

TEMDERFLAKE lard is a Candian brand retail lard you can't get here in the U.S. (Except by internet and the shipping is probably as much as the lard) In the U.S. our standard grocery store brick lard is hydrogenated. Tenderflake is not, so at least its not as bad for you like the U.S. stuff. Just FYI
You can use Crisco shortening instead of lard. Lots of people do part butter for flavor, part Crisco for flakiness.
Another thing about lard, I used a couple of tablespoons in my pie crust once and could tell by the taste which I didn't like.
I've read that sugar in crusts promotes browning. So if the recipes you tried used sugar that's going to increase your the chances your edges will brown up faster.
I use a cheap glass and metal top salt shaker (have to hang on to the top which always wants to fall off) to distribute ice cold watera little at a time in the hopes I can cut down on the amount of water. I've thought of adding a little vinegar to it but I wonder if it would be even better to use just a little orange or lemon juice as that would add acidity and flavor.

The Vodka recipe above from Cooks Illustrated truly is foolproof and delicious even when made with all butter

I'm in the USA. so I guess Tenderflake lard is out. I'm glad that now I know the difference between lard and suet.

I think I will have to try that vodka recipe. It does take a ton of butter tho. Good thing Thanksgiving only rolls around once a year.

I have my sugar pumpkins ready to go....

Thank you again to everyone who took the time to post and help me. I appreciate it.

I am on my third bottle of vodka to use to make pie crusts....some how, it disappears over the months.
This time I really am going to use it for pie crusts!

Ditto on the Cook's Illustrated vodka pie crust recipe.

I do cut the butter back some, to one stick. I made a quiche last week using the recipe with only 1 stick (frozen) and- the recommended amount of Crisco- and it was very good- still fatty and flaky. The additional butter was unnecessary, imo. Had one disk of dough for the freezer too.

I think it would be fine with all butter.

I have this feeling-- it's not something I've ever felt regarding pie crust-- I think you call it . . . "hope"

I swear by Rose Levy Beranbaum's method. Everything is cold. I keep my pastry flour in the freezer. You can also watch her make it on YouTube.

Here is a link that might be useful: Flaky Tender Pie Crust

LOL Jessica, I know you and I share pie crust phobia. I didn't even open this thread right away and only because I have a minute to kill while waiting for something have I even stopped here!

I am pastry crust challenged, but it's not due to ingredients, it's due to me being very impatient, and not liking the cutting in the butter part or rolling and shaping part. But I sometimes still make pie crust, due to LOVING the EATING part!

I saw on an episode of "America's Test Kitchen" where they froze the butter and then grated it to insure it was extra cold. I tried that for scones. Meh. Not worth the extra trouble, IMHO. But worth a try if you're looking for new secrets. Just another thing I hated doing so it is just me, worth trying if you're on the quest for the holy grail of pie crusts. My friends mom makes the best crusts, but she uses all lard. That's her secret. You can taste the lard though. Being a half jewish vegetarian, I don't have much use for lard so do not buy it or have it on hand. It does make good crust though. Same goes for me and Crisco. I have a recipe for a whole wheat crust that uses only oil and water. It is good, but not a flaky kind. You have to roll it out between wax paper. I don't mind it and it is the healthiest.

My secret for good pie crust is to buy the premade kind!
Ovens do have a lot to do with good results though. Some ovens have hot or cold spots and not the best heating elements anymore. At least that's the case with my old stove, but a new one i$n't in the card$.

LOL! California Carol!...I buy "pie crust vodka"...AKA birdy booze.....cheep!!
And I have also made it with all butter.
Quick pie crust...throw a "heaping:" cup of flour into the FP...add a stick of frozen butter cup up and a generous pinch of salt from the jar....zap zap zap...onto the rolling board ( piece of corian) and add a shot of vodka....toss with a fork and add sprinkles of water until it comes together....and roll it out.
I'll bet if would be good with Grey Goose L'orange...but that's drinking vodka!!
Linda C

another LOL California Carol.....as I sip on what could have been a pie crust contender !

"throw a heaping cup of flour into the FP..." Into the FirePlace??? LOL, cuz I'm sitting here at my FP drinking vodka.

This is my favourite pastry recipe.

Home Cookin Chapter: Recipes From Thibeault's Table

Butter-Lard Pastry
==================
2 cups all purpose flour
3/4 teaspoon salt
1/3 cup butter
1/3 cup lard (or shortening- Crisco)
5 to 6 tablespoons of ice water

For sweet pies add 1 to 2 teaspoons white sugar.

Mix flour with salt, and cut in butter and lard.

An easy way to cut in the fat is to use a food Processor. Cut the butter and lard into cubes add to the flour and pulse. Butter/lard should be the size of peas. Pour mixture into a bowl and add the ice water, mixing quickly with a fork, just until the dough comes together. Turn out on to floured board and form into a ball. Cut into
two pieces, wrap in plastic and refrigerate for an hour.

Another way to cut into the butter is to use a box grater. Makes the perfect size pieces of butter. Just make sure that the butter is very cold.

NOTE: This crust is also perfect made with all butter.

Edited: May/2009

My 85 year old mother and I are known for the quality of our pie crusts. Each time one of us bakes a pie, we enjoy critiquing the end result, and comparing it to the last pie one of us baked. I confess it's been decades since I've had a pie crust failure ... now bread baking is a totally different proposition. I'll gladly make pies for anyone who will make home made yeast breads or rolls for me. :)

Anyway, the best recipe I've found for pie crust is in the original Joy of Cooking. It calls for equal amounts of COLD butter (or margarine, I guess, but I always use butter) and shortening -- I use Crisco. I've not posted the recipe here, because I figured it is readily available. If you can't find it, and you'd like the recipe, send me an e-mail and I'll be glad to type it off for you.

The key hints are:

1) Be very stingy with your water...although I live in the dry mountainous state of Utah, I never use the full number of Tbs of water authorized by the recipe

2) Handle the dough quickly and gently. I always mix my pie dough by hand, using the old fashioned hand-held pastry blender. Very easy to do, and results in excellent pie crusts. When you cut in your butter, mix with the pastry blender until the dough looks like peas. When you cut in the shortening, mix with the pastry blender until the dough looks like cornmeal. You really will be able to tell the difference between these qualities. When it looks like cornmeal, that is when you gradually, and sparingly, add the water -- COLD water, 1 Tbs at a time. I use a fork to quickly mix in the water with the dough, and then quickly use my fingers to gently form dough into a ball.

3) Most importantly, roll your dough out on a pastry cloth, using a rolling pin covered with a cheese cloth. This will ensure you use very little flour and will prevent your dough from getting tough. I always, always use the pastry cloth & rolling pin cover, even though I have granite counter tops. This one tip will make a HUGE difference.

Good luck, and don't give up on your pie making. In my opinion, there is nothing as good as a home made pie, with its delicate, flaky and oh-so-yummy crust. I worry that this aspect of American baking is fast disappearing, and that would be such a huge shame.....

Beth,

I will gladly you trade you bread for pie crusts! I love making bread, all kinds. I don't think there is anything delicate about making bread, other than not killing yeast with too hot a liquid. But pie crusts seem to be very fussy.....

I am going to give pie crust one more try.

I will try to post results on Friday.

Can I make my pie crusts today? Sunday Nov 22nd? Then I would put them in the pie pans into the fridge and bake the pies on Wednesday?
Joann

The dough will get sort of gummy and grey....
The same qualities of flour that makes bread dough improve with age makes pastry deteriorate.
But you can make the pastry and roll it into a ball and wrap well and freeze it.....roll out and bake on Wednesday.
Linda C

Thanks Linda!

Or you could bake the pastry crusts and wrap well and fill on Wednesday.

I would like to add one more key hint.

When rolling out the crust, roll in one direction only. That is from the center to the outside edge. Do NOT run your rolling pin back & forth over the dough.

Rusty

Make your pie crusts, roll them out, fit them into the pan, then wrap well and freeze. Fill and bake on Wednesday. You don't even have to thaw them, just add a few more minutes, although they will thaw very fast.
I am just now going to make my piec crusts which I will freeze and then bake on Friday night. (Our Thanksgiving is Saturday)

Linda, have you made that pie crust recipe? It looks like there is a typo of 1 tbsp of salt instead of 1 tsp. I made it with the 1 tbsp and it came out way too salty to use.

Cloud_swift, the recipe now acknowledges there was a typo and it is corrected to 1 tsp.

I am cross-posting this request-- I hope that's ok.

I still can't do it. For those of you who are able to roll out crusts:

Does your recipe call for vegetable shortening or animal lard? How long do you chill the dough before rolling? What do you use to roll it (a chilled rolling pin? A very heavy rolling pin?) How long do you let the dough warm before you start rolling? How long does it take you to roll it? What method of rolling did you use? (back and forth or from the middle?) Do you roll it on a cutting board or something, so you could flip it, or does it come off the counter easily?

There must be something I'm still not getting.

Rolling pie dough:

I always have success, and have followed the Joy of Cooking's basic pie dough recipe for decades -- I've successfully baked pies for 40+ years. The recipe calls for only the basics: cold butter, room temperature shortening (I use Crisco), all purpose flour, salt and 4-6 Tablespoons of cold water. That's it. Very simple and very traditional.

The dough is NEVER chilled. Think about it: You want the butter and shortening to be soft and absorb/mix-in with the dry ingredients. Chilled fat will take a LOT of handling to get to that consistency, and increased handling results in tough pie crusts. That's why most of the recipes I've seen do not call for chilling the dough.

I mix the flour, salt and butter together using a hand-held pastry blender -- See photo. It's a simple, basic pastry making tool that costs between $5 - $10. Very traditional, very tried & true.

Sometimes I mix the butter in first, sometimes I mix the shortening. Whichever you choose to use, use the blender to mix the dry ingredients and butter/shortening until the crumbs look like peas. Then add either the butter or shortening and continue mixing with pastry blender until the ingredients look like cornmeal. You really will notice the difference.

At that point, add the cold water 1 Tbs at a time, using a fork to lift and mix the ingredients together. While the recipe calls for 4-6 Tbs., I find that 4 Tbs works for me ....sometimes as much as 5. This has been true regardless of whether I've made pies in the dry, mountainous West, or the humid east coast. You'll add only enough water until you can get most of the dry ingredients to hold together in a ball.

Assuming it's a 2-crust pie, I halve the pie dough and immediately begin working the first crust. I leave the rest of the pie dough in the bowl, uncovered, open to the air, at room temperature.

I ALWAYS roll the dough on a pastry cloth, using a cheese cloth cover for the rolling pin. I use a 40 year old wooden rolling pin. Standard size and weight. Absolutely nothing fancy or unusual about it. The key to using a pastry cloth and cheese cloth cover for the rolling pin is that you will be able to roll out your pie dough and use MUCH less flour. All you need to do is lightly sprinkle a small amount of flour on the pastry cloth, roll the rolling pin over the top of the pastry cloth to get some of the flour on the pin, then begin to work the dough.

I have granite counter tops in this house. Other houses have had Corian, wood and the old fashioned vinyl. The type of counter makes absolutely no difference in the quality of the crust. I promise! I anchor the pastry cloth with my body in the front and cannisters in the back, so that everything stays fairly quiet...but even it if moves a bit, that's not a problem.

When rolling out your pie dough, work gently but quickly. Do NOT lean on the rolling pin. Merely lightly push the pin from the middle of the dough out in circles. You'll work around the dough. You'll have thick spots of dough and thin, and work the thick spots out...by gently rolling the pin over the dough. Don't lean on it or force it by brute force.

More often than not my pie crusts are not perfect when they are rolled out. I like a thinner crust, so that means that I'll have some repair to do as I lay the crust in the pie pan, or lay the top crust on top of the filling. There is lots of room for forgiveness. If it's the bottom crust you're repairing, no one will ever know because it will be hidden by the filling. If it's the top crust, your cut-outs to allow the steam to escape the baking pie will camouflage that. The key is to ensure you have a solid bottom crust so that juice will not escape the pie crust, AND to ensure you have a large enough bottom crust that you can flute the edges of the pie. OR, a large enough top crust for fluting....I've done it both ways, and it just depends on what the crust gods decide that day.

I hope these suggestions help. I assure you that once you understand what you're supposed to do, you'll be able to turn out consistently good pie crusts, with confidence and speed.

Here is a link that might be useful:

Thank you so much for taking the time to type that out. That's interesting!! Of all the recipes I've tried, I don't think I've ever tried one that didn't have me chill the dough. And double thanks for the words of encouragement.