If your water is too hot, you will kill the yeast. It should be lukewarm, 130 degrees is too hot. I usually add 1/2 whole wheat and 1/2 unbleached flour for my bread...the heaviness of the whole wheat means a slightly longer rising time.

Also check to make sure your yeast is fresh, that is often the culprit when dough doesn't rise. Yeast does not need a whole lot of sugar to help it rise. I usually only add a scant tsp when I make whole wheat bread - I also add a bit of molasses, which is a sugar source too.

If you want to help it along, put your covered bowl of rising dough in a very slightly warmed oven (turn oven on for ~30 seconds and then shut off). Good luck, looking at your recipe, it looks more like a sweet bread since it has quite a bit of honey (2/3 cup).

When you substitute whole wheat flour, add 1 tablespoon of vital wheat gluten per cup of WW flour, and this should help. I found it a bit odd that your recipe has both yeast and baking powder in it - I have never tried that combination. You should not need more yeast, but I cannot see a problem with adding a bit more butter, except that this will make the dough stretchier when you knead it. If it is too dry, perhaps you are baking it too long. I sometimes take an internal temperature of bread to tell if it is done.

Lars

You sure don't need to add more yeast. It already has an awful lot.
Why is the baking powder there?

- As already suggested, no extra yeast necessary. In fact, 6 heaping teaspoons of yeast for 4-1/2 cups of flour is a bit excessive. Is this one of those quickie recipes where you can make rolls in 30-minutes?

- Proofing the water, honey and yeast for 30-minutes is a bit excessive. Five to ten minutes is all it needs.

- I can't believe there is 2/3 c. honey for 4-1/2 c. of flour!!! Which may account for the excessive amount of yeast in the recipe. Sweet dough doesn't rise as fast, so extra yeast is often the "fix" for that. I'd also add 1/8 t. of ascorbic acid (or Fruit Fresh if you don't have ascorbic acid). An acid will aid the rise due to the glutathione in the wheat germ (which breaks the gluten bonds), and also aid in the rise of a sweet dough.

- Additional butter isn't going to add "moisture" - adding less flour will. Only add as much flour as it takes to make a nice soft dough. If you have a stiff dough, it's under-hydrated. The bran in whole wheat flour is going to require more hydration because bran soaks up moisture like a sponge, so either add a little more water, or add less flour. It's better to err on the side of a wet dough than dry.
- Dough doesn't rise to a clock. Thirty minutes may or may not be a good guess. It should rise to just under double, and such a sweet dough may rise slowly. I always suggest a dough rising bucket so you can accurately see when the dough reaches "double". See link below. You can make a dough rising bucket out of a recycled ice cream bucket. Just pat the dough in the bottom and snap the lid on tight. Measure it. Double the measurement and mark the place. When the dough rises to that point, it has doubled in bulk. I usually use a 2-quart container I got at a restaurant supply store that looks similar to the one from King Arthur Flour (I have them in several sizes for different amounts of dough).

For Lars... Chemical leavening (baking powder in this case) along with yeast is going to give you very light rolls. The addition of baking powder typically allows you to use a little extra sugar in the recipe, and not compromise the condition of the dough (too much sugar in yeast breads is not a good thing). The baking powder makes the rolls light and the extra sugar will help them brown beautifully.

-Grainlady

Here is a link that might be useful: King Arthur Flour - dough rising bucket

Thanks for the responses! I can't explain the recipe, if I knew about baking bread, I wouldn't be asking questions. I don't remember where I found it, was just looking for an easier recipe. It IS sweet, not the right taste for sandwiches but a chunk is a great side with dinner, also excellent for toast.

All the instructions I read about yeast said 120-130 degrees. I figure the water loses 5-10 degrees when I pour it into the bowl (stainless steel) with the honey and yeast. Getting it bubbly and "taller" is no problem at that point. I set it on top of my toaster oven set on its' lowest temp and leave a thermometer in it to make sure it stays around 120 degrees while it's getting bubbly. It's after the flour is added that it's not rising like it does without the wheat flour. This is a no-knead bread, it's too sticky for kneading.

The texture is good but if we don't eat it all the same day, it's very dry the next day with the wheat. It doesn't get too dry for 2-3 days without the wheat.

Thanks, Grainlady! I think we were typing at the same time.

Whole wheat flour needs longer to absorb moisture...I suspect the reason it's dry is because you added too much flour....because you didn't wait for the flour to absorb the moisture.
It's a strange recipe....if you are looking for a sweet whole wheat bread....I'll bet someone where will have one that works better for you.
Linda C

I heartily recomment the Honey Whole Wheat recipe that several of us here make. The full recipe calls for 3 cups white and 3 cups whole-wheat flour. I make it 4 cups whole wheat and 2 cups white, and it works great. (You can cut the recipe in half).

Those 6 cups flour call for 1/2 cup honey.

HONEY WHOLE WHEAT BREAD

3 cups all purpose flour
3 cups whole wheat flour
2 pkg. active dry yeast
2 tsp. salt
1 cup milk
1 cup water
1/2 cup honey
3 Tbsp. oil
1 egg

In large bowl, combine 2 cups all-purpose flour, 1 cup whole wheat flour, the yeast, and salt and mix well.
In saucepan, heat milk, water, honey, and oil until a thermometer reads 120-130 degrees F (warm)

Add liquid mixture to flour mixture and stir to combine. Beat this batter for 3 minutes. Then, gradually stir in rest of whole wheat flour and enough remaining all-purpose four to form a firm dough.

Sprinkle work surface with flour and knead dough, adding more flour if necessary, for 5-8 minutes until smooth and satiny. Place dough in a greased bowl, turning the dough in the bowl to grease the top. Cover and let rise in a warm place about 1 hour, until double in bulk.

Punch down dough and divide into 2 pieces. On lightly floured surface, roll or press each piece of dough to a 14x7" rectangle. Starting with shorter side, roll up tightly, pressing dough into roll with each turn. Pinch edges and ends to seal and place dough, seam-side down, into greased 9x5" bread pans, making sure short ends of bread are snugly fitted against the sides of the pans. Cover and let rise in warm place until the dough fills the corners of the pans and is double in bulk, 30-40 minutes.

Bake in preheated 375 degree oven for 35-40 minutes, until bread is golden brown. Remove from pans and cool on wire racks. I like to brush the bread with butter when it's still hot from the oven for a softer crust.

I use a recipe similar to Jasdip's and it does turn out wonderful bread. It's lightly sweet with a lovely texture. (I also cut the recipe in half.) However, it is a traditional kneaded bread. If you want a no-knead recipe, you might want to consider the many "Artisan Bread in 5 Minutes A Day" recipes. I've linked below to a whole grain recipe. It uses both whole wheat and white flour. The advantage to making an "Artisan... 5 Minutes..." recipe is that the dough can be kept in your refrigerator, so you can make any size loaf or roll you want fresh every day until the dough is gone. Several forum members use the "5 Minutes" recipes with great success.

Here is a link that might be useful: Whole Grain Artisan Bread in 5 Minutes/Day

Thanks for the recipes and additional inputs!

Linda, Whole wheat flour needs longer to absorb moisture...I suspect the reason it's dry is because you added too much flour....because you didn't wait for the flour to absorb the moisture. How/when would I do that with "my" recipe? It's too sticky to touch cleanly when I leave it to rise. Leave it more like a batter than a dough?

My goal was and still is easy to make (no kneading) bread for non-sandwich uses. Family is pretty happy with this, just wanting to see what improvements might be possible and how to experiment with it. If I make something we don't want to eat plain, I'll use it in meatloaf or to make dressing.

Purple:
You have had a lot of good suggestions.
I suspect you may have a yeast problem.

I haven't had any problem substituting some
WW flour for AP flour.
I use it in my Braided Bread and Pizza dough.

Here is my Braided Bread Recipe.

****************************************

Everyone has their own way to do this, which is better.
But! I like to cook and bake using easier ways,
long as the end results are the same.
I've used this recipe since I got out of the Army, a very long time ago
and converted it from Army Baking (Large amounts )to Home Baking.
It wasn't easy going from 4 Quarts to 4 cups , etc.
But I worked it out.

I got the results that I wanted and I'm passing it on.
************************

Here is the recipe:

Luigi�s - - - Braided, Plaited Bread or Dough for Cinnamon Buns , Bagels, Etc.

2 cups of milk, (warm, not hot ) 1 1/3 cup of Sugar
3 large eggs- beaten (save 1/2 egg w. a little milk for basting )
1 tablesp.+ of Vanilla - -
1/2 cup + of oil - -
1/2 teasp. Salt
2 packs of Fleischmans Active dry yeast
AP Flour - 3 cups to start ( probably about 6 total ),
enough to knead into a soft ball that doesn�t stick to your hands.
I now substitute a cup of WW Flour.
Stir the yeast in a 1/3 cup of warm water w. 1/2 spoon of sugar, to test it for raising.

In a large mixing bowl, or (KA mixer) place the warm milk ( not hot )
add the sugar ,vanilla , salt & eggs
Beat until the sugar is dissolved and add the Yeast and mix well.
Add 1 cup of WW flour and 3 cups of AP flour and mix with mixer a few minutes.
Add flour until you make a " soft " Ball of dough that doesn�t stick to your hands.
Don�t make it too stiff , try to keep it a "soft dough."
On the Work Top, Sprinkle some flour under the ball and Knead it until smooth.
Place it in a large bowl, Rub some oil on top.

Cover with a damp towel and place in a warm spot ( until double.) I usually turn my oven on for a few minutes to warm and shut it.
Place a pan of hot water on the bottom shelf.

Then place the dough bowl in the oven to rise.
When ( doubled ) deflate and put it out of the bowl onto a floured worktop.
Punch it down and knead the dough again. Then cut into 2 pieces ( 2 loaves ).
Divide each piece into 3. Roll each of these 3 pieces into the shape
of a sweet potato ( about 12 in long ).
With the basting ( egg ) mixture and wet the tips of the 3 pieces
and stick them together at one end .
Then spread the other end the shape of an arrow While keeping the stuck ends down and away from you ,
twist each piece clockwise about 8 times and
lay them down so you can Platt or Braid them and
stick the other ends together
There are other ways to Braid ( 6 Strands ) but I take the fast easy way to do things.
Place the 2 shaped loaves on lightly oiled cookie tins, or in loaf pans.
Preheat the oven to 400 deg.
Spray some Pam on the loaves or brush with oil. This will keep them from drying while raising.
When doubled in size (about 20 min.) place in the oven , top shelf and bake until slightly tan.
Baste them with the egg mix and rotate them back into the oven and
( Turn temperature down to 325 deg.)
Baste again when they are a dark tan. Cook till a rich brown, mahogany color.
Take them out of the pans onto a rack to cool. Control yourself !!!! Let them cool !!!

This sounds like a lot to do but it is easy and should take only 10 minutes to mix and shape.
The most time is in the waiting for the dough to rise and for the bread to cool .
But it do look great !!! & Professional
This dough can also be used for Cinnamon Buns and Dinner Rolls.
I use it for Bagels too. I like the Subtle, Hardly Noticeable, sweet taste.
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Braided Bread

Bagles

Plain Cheese 10inch Pizza

Cinnamon Buns ( Sticky Buns )