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need info on lens on camera

16 years ago

Hi I have a Nikon D 5000 and would like to know what kind of zoom lens to buy to take picture of birds I really want to get close and clear

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Comments (6)

lazypup
16 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
I primarily shoot wildlife and nature photos and use lenses ranging from a 13mm fisheye for extreme wide angle to a true 1000mm prime lens for distant shots, however I can tell you first hand that learning to use long tele lenses can be a very exasperating experience.

Generally 300mm is considered the longest lens that can be effectively used in a hand held mode and even then it depends upon your camera and lens holding technique and the lighting conditions. While most people can hold a normal lens steady with shutter speeds of 1/60 or greater a 200mm lens will requires shutter speeds of 1/125 or greater and a 300mm will require 1/250 or greater for consistant hand held shots.

When using longer lenses the manner that you hold the camera becomes rather critical as well. For best results the left hand should be under the lens with the fore arm in a vertical position. When using zoom and/or manual focus lenses the lens is zoomed and focused with the left hand. For additional support the elbow can be rested in firm contact with your belly. The top of the camera body should be held tight against your forehead and the camera body held with your right hand with your right elbow extending horizontal to your shoulder. If you practice that grip you will have firm support on all three axis. It is also critical that you get in the habit of slowly and gently depressing the shutter button. Remember that any vibration or sudden movements will be exagerated when using long lenses.

The next thing to consider is that that longer the lens the shorter the depth of field at any given distance, therefore focusing becomes very critical when using longer lenses.

As I stated earlier, I have a full range of lenses, but in my humble opinion the best lens for general birdwatching or nature photography will have a maximum focal lengt of 300mm.

Fortunate for me, I can interchange my Pentax 35mm film lenses with my digital cameras so I can get the best of both worlds. If I had to go in the field with a maximum of only two lenses without question my choice would be my 28 to 70mm zoom for wide angle, normal and short tele shots and the 70-300mm for short to long tele shots.

I am attaching some photos to show you what can be done with a zoom with a max focal length of 300mm.

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Hand held shot of deer at 250yards using a Pentax ME Super (35mm film SLR) with a Sigma 70-300 manual focus macro zoom lens.

Hand held shot of a bee on a flower at 5ft using the same camera & lens. Lens set at 70mm macro mode.

Here is a hand held shot of a toad stool using my Pentax *ist DL digital with the 70-300mm set at 70mm macro

Hand held shot of two Blue Jays at 75ft using the same lens set at 300mm on my Pentax *ist DL digital SLR

Pentax *ist DL using the same lens at 60ft through a window

Pentax *ist Dl with a SMC Pentax 100-300auto focus set at 300mm at 15ft through a window

Lenses longer than 300mm will require a tripod

It should also be noted that the Pentax *ist Dl is the first generation of Pentax digital SLR's and only has 6.3mp resolution. I am certainly looking forward to my new Pentax K20d which I am purchasing for my birthday in April. That will move me up to 14.2mp of resolution with the shake reduction system while still allowing me to continue using all of my lenses.
rcnaylor
16 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Very informative lazypup. Thanks!

I especially found the distance to be helpful.
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Just MHO, I wouldn't buy that camera for bird photos. Not if you think you might get serious about photography. Depending on your budget, consider Canon S3 IS or S5 IS (the S2 IS takes good photos also). Panasonic FZ20 or FZ50. The S3, S2 and FZ20 are older models that can be bought for around $250. The Canons work well with tele converters (you might want to get into photographing birds at greater distances. The Canons have 12X zoom lens and shutter speeds 1/3200 fast enough to capture the beat of hummer's wings. There is a learning curve with these cameras but study and practice will pay off with really nice photographs. When starting with a new camera, the thing is not to give up. There is no film to buy or processing fees so you can take a thousand practice photos for almost nothing. Visit the bird watching forum and ask this same question mentioning hummingbird photos. Ask the folks which cameras they use and if they will show you a couple hummer photos. There is a thread now about new cameras. Happy hunting. Marnie Here is a link that might be useful: Bird forum
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I have decided to go with the Rebel XTi myself. The reviews on www.dpreview.com helped me, so I would check that site out, maybe it will make your decision easier. Bear in mind that the Rebel XSi is due out in a few months. I think it is $899 with what I understand to be a good kit lens. I had debated on waiting, but Im impatient, and its a little out of budget. Its going to have a live view LCD, which is good, 12mp, and a feature that the XTi lacks, Spot Metering...a very useful tool! Anyway, Hope that site helps....good luck!
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You are absolutely correct that learning how to manipulate the shutter speed and aperture to maintain the desired depth of field is the finer points of photography, but with the advent of auto focus and auto exposure controls that is rapidly becoming a lost art. Back in the mid 60's when I learned photography we all we had at best was manual focus and stop down match needle metering. Try shooting action shots at a football game when you have to manually focus and compute the exposure for each shot and you will rapidly find out the action is long gone before you even get a shot off. Add to that, we were working with fixed focal length prime lenses. The solution was to go to the sidelines at mid field (50yd line) and select a lens focal length that would give you closeups at mid field or at either end of the field, typically a 200mm. on the lens barrel you will see a center line that indicates the distance from the camera to the subject. On either side of that index you will see small lines that have an f-stop index number, one on each side of the center focus index. That is the depth of field scale index lines. The smaller the aperture the wider the distance between the index lines, and the greater the depth of field. Rather than focus the lens on a set point, rotate the lens until the infinity mark is on a depth of field index on one side and look at the corresponding depth of field mark on the opposite side to see what the closest focal point is. By example, a 200mm lens at f-16 has a maximum depth of field of 24' to infinity. A 300mm lens at f-16 would give you a depth of field range of 90' to infinity. The ISO or film speed index is equal to the shutter speed at noon daylight at the equator. As we move north or south of the equator the light falls off. On average, at noon in the USA the ISO number is equal to the correct shutter speed with the aperture set at f-11. We need a minimum shutter speed of 250 and f-16 is one f-stop slower than f-11, so we would use ISO 400 film (slightly less than one f-stop faster). With the modern digital cameras offering shutter speeds up to 1600 or 3200 it is much easier. Set the aperture at f-16 and set the ISO at 800 and you could shoot the whole game without making another setting on the camera.
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I have also been a serious amateur / semi-pro photographer since the early 1960's and like you, when I retired I decided to take up Wildlife & Nature photography as my retirement hobby primarily to gie myself an excuse to get out of the house regularly, but even more specifically because I suffer from C.O.P.D. and I find taking long nature hikes carrying a 30lb backpack of photo equipment very theraputic, as an example, one year ago I couldn't walk to the mailbox without carrying a portable oxygen tank but today I think nothing of 5 or 10 mile hikes and I have not even had the O2 equipemtn for the last 6 months. According to my book, Birds of Ohio, there are 413 species of birds native to the state of Ohio. To date I have photo documented 119 species either in my yard or within walking distance of my house. Bird photography presents a number of unique challenges and with experience you will find that your technique is every bit as important as your equipment. Most birds fly between 20 and 30mph while some of the hawks and raptors are capable of speeds in excess of 70mph. This means that while in flight most birds are moving 30 to 45ft/sec which makes it nearly impossible to focus on birds while in flight, therefore if we have any aspriaton of getting flight action shots we have to anticipate where the bird will be, then set our equipment up in advance and await an opportunity to take the shot. Obviously shooting birds when they are still is much easier, but keep in mind that birds are very elusive so we must provide some means to attract the bird to our viewing area. IN winter this is very easy, we simply put up bird feeders, then sit back and wait for the birds to come to us, but what do we do in summer? Birds are opporunists and for basically the same reason that people frequent fast food restaraunts, birds can easily be attracted by bird feeders, bird baths, small decorative ponds in your landscaping and selected flowers and shrubs that attract birds. If your into capturing images of birds in their wild habitat you could do as I do, don full camoflage and stake out a spot where you have full view of wild fruits, berries, corn fields etc. Oh yes, I realize that this may seem gross to some, but don't overlook the photo opporunity of staking out a vantage point where you can watch some road kill. You will be amazed how many birds are scaavengers. Although much more difficult to get a good viewing angle, you can get some very unique photos ir you can find a nesting site, but be careful here. If you repeatedly get too close to a nesting site the parents may abandon the young. Under no circumstances should you ever touch a nest becuse that would leave your scent and the parents will nearly always leave. Now to answer your original question, what lenses do you need? Let me begin by clarifying a point for you. Rgardless of what kind of camera we use, a normal lens has a focal length equal to the diagonal measurement of the negative format or the electronidc sensor. By example, a 35mm film camera produces a negative that is 24x36mm therefore the diagonal measurement is 43.2mm. (due to the physical space reqquirements of the multiple elements, aperture and focusing linkages the industry has accepted 43 to 55mm as the normal lens). Any lens which has a focal length longer than the Normal lens is said to be a Telephoto lens. Generally lenses up to 3x the normal focal length are defined as telephotos while lenses longer than 3x the normal focal length are defined as super telephotos. Lenses with a focal length that is shorter than the normal focal length are called "Wide Angle" lenses. Lenses with a fixed focal length are defined as "Prime lenses" while lenses with a variable focal lenght are said to be a "Zoom Lens" meaning that is can be zoomed from its minimum to its maximum focal lenght, thus you could have a zoom wide angle or a zoom telephoto. On cameras that have a fixed lens they often define the focal ength by a number, by example, they may say the camera has a 10x zoom. In this case the numbrer is multiplying the focal length of the normal lens for that format, thus while the normal format for a 35mm film camera is 43mm, a 10x zoom would equal a 430mm lens. For 35mm film cameras or DSLR's a 300mm lens is considered the longest lens that can consistantly be hand held and they should only be used in hand held mode when the shutter speed is 1/125 or greater. Lenses longer than 300mm or in situations where the shutter speed will be less than 1/125 it will require a monopod, tripod or other suitable means of support. The actual diameter of the lens aperture can be mathematically computed by dividing the lens focal length by the index number, by example, if you have a 50mm lens set at f-2 the actual diameter of the aperture opening is 50/2= 25mm while a 300mm @ f-2 would have an aperture opening of 300/2= 150mm however due to the difference in angle of view both lenses would produce the same light level at the film plane. If we then examine the complete f-stop scale we would find that the the indexes are such that increasing the index one stop will reduce the cross sectional area of the aperture to 1/2 the cross sectional are of the previous aperture opening. If you then examine the shutter speed scale you will note that each increment is approximately double the time of the next higher shutter speed. Exposure is a combinastion of time and light intensity, thus if we change the f-stop one stop we either double or halve the amount of light striking the film or sensor, and if we change the shutter speed on index figure we also either double or halve the light to the film. In this manner we can change the overall exposure one f-stop by either changing the aperture setting or the shutter speed one index. You could use a 200mm lense with a doubler as was siggested before, but when we attach a doubler the actaul apertue size remains constant while we double focal length so we instantly loose one f-stop. In addition, we generally loose another f-stop to the light loss through the glass lens in the doubler. As a result the actual insertion loss of a doubler is typically 2 f-stops and some cheaper after market doublers have an insertion loss of 3 f-stops. When i first begani my interset in photography a built in light meter was still a new feature and in those days we had to learn how to eyeball an exposure. (When using my old manual focus pre-set lenses I still put my camera in manual mode and eyeball the exposure for practice) ISO is the actual shutter speed required to produce a proper exposure at f-16 in mean daylight at noon at the equator. As you move north of shuth of the equator the angle of incidence of sunlight changes and we must compensate the exposure, thue in the USA in bright sunlight at noon in mid summer the proper expose shutter speed would be equal to the ISO number with the lens set at f-16 and we loose one f-stop for each two hours before or after noon. Keep in mind that birds are most active in early morning or late afternoon. Using the aabove formula, if we are shooting a picture at 4pm on a bright summer day in mid summer our we could set the shutter speed to the ISO speed and set the lens to f 5.6. Keeping in mind that we want a shutter speed of at least 250 to stop action we must then use ISO 400 and if its a cloudy day or in shade the exposure would be f-4 but our lens will only open to f 5.6 so we must then increase the ISO to 800. If we were to attach a doubler we would need to push the ISO two more stops to 3200 and risk a lot of image loss to noise. In my humble opinion the best economical lens for what you want to do would be a 70-300mm f 4-5.6 I would also strongly encourage you to get a good heavy duty tripod and a remote shutter release. Your Canon Rebel uses the Canon EF mount and although I am not familiar with your camera it may also use the Canon EFs mount. Out of curiosity I did a quick scan on Ebay and found 11 Canon 70-300mm f4-5.6 EF lenses listed with a "Buy Now" price ranging from $119 to $189 ( avg was $139). I also found a couple Sigma 70-300mm f4-5.6 with canon EF mounts for $129 and if you are willing to go through the bidding procedures I saw a couple that went as cheap as $65+S&H. I am attaching some photos that i took with my Pentax ist DL (6.2mp) DSLR with a Sigma 70=300mm f 4-5.6 manual focus lens.
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janepa
16 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
lazypup, your information is very helpful, and the photos are great. The one of the toadstool looks like I could just pick it right up. While I really like my Panasonic ZS3 12X point and shoot, I am seriously considering getting a 300mm lense, or my husband mentioned a doubler. He is the camera buff in the family so I am not quite sure which would be better, a doubler (our max. lens is 200mm), or a 300mm. Do you have an opinion on these two choices?

Thank you. Jane
lazypup
16 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
I began my interest in photography with a Pentax Spotmatic 35mm SLR back in 1968 and if someone were to offer me a dollar each for all the 1.5x, 2x & 3x tele convertors that I have thrown away over the years I could take my GF out to dinner tonight..LOL.

Over the years I have stayed with Pentax for two reasons. First off, I have shot over 250,000 frames with my original Spotmatic and it still performs well. In addition, while Pentax has always stayed on the cutting edge of technology, often being the first to introduce new technologies they have managed to design their cameras in such a way that we can use any Pentax lens ever made on the brand new DSLR's. In fact, both Nikon and Canon build adapters that will allow you to use the old Pentax screw mount lenses on their new cameras.

Generally telephoto lenses are used for taking pictures of distant scenes or objects outdoors, well beyond the maximum limits of a flash unit so we are obligated to shoot under the available light conditions. If we are taking a picture of a stationary object we can easily mount the camera & lens on a tripod and compensate for low light conditions by extending the shutter speed but, if you are taking nature shots of birds and animals shutter speed is critical because the subject is not going to remain motionless long enough to permit long shutter speeds.

You may have also noticed that as we extend focal length we loose effective aperture. By example, your normal lens may be f1.2- f2, but if you extend to 200mm the maximum aperture will be in the order of f3.5 and at 300mm it will be f4.5 - f5.6.

Every time we close the lens one f-stop we must cut shutter speed in half to get the same exposure. By Example, if you have an exposure of 1/125 @ f2 then stop the lens down to f3.5 you must drop the shutter speed to 1/60 to get the same exposure.

Let us assume for the moment that you are shooting a scenic shot in late afternoon with your normal lens and you get an exposure of f2 @ 1/125. That would be a very easy hand held shot but what if you changed to a 300mm lens that has a maximum aperture of f4.5 ? You are losing two f-stops of light so you must now change the shutter speed 2 f-stops so the exposure would now be 1/30 @ f4.5 which is well below the 1/250 minimum for a hand held shot with a 300mm lens.

Years ago the big 3 camera manufacturers (Nikon, Canon & Pentax) did not even offer a tele converter but due to pressure from 3rd party aftermarket sources they do now offer them, although they keep them very low key in their advertising for good reason.

The main problem with tele converters, and what none of the third party manufacturers openly state is the "light insertion loss". Typically a tele converter will introduce a minimum of 2 f-stops of light loss and some go as high as 4 stops.

Now it can be argued that with most DSLR's we can compensate for the light loss by increasing the ISO index. (every time we double the ISO we gain one f-stop), which is true, but keep in mind that for every increasing in ISO there is a loss in image resolution and a significant increase in grain (called noise on digitals).

Tele converters also introduce both Chromatic & spherical aberrations which is a color & edge distortion that becomes very problematic when printing enlargements.

While on the subject of aftermarket products there is another option needs to be mentioned, that being mirror lenses. While the big 3 camera manufactures do make some very good mirror lenses, there is a long list of aftermarket manufactures that build inexpensive 500mm & 1000mm mirror lenses. Be very careful here because most of the inexpensive mirror lenses have a fixed aperture which is typically f-8. While they will perform marginally well for shooting scenics from a tripod, due to the fact that most birds and animals are most active in early morning or late afternoon those lenses are almost useless for nature photography.
janepa
16 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Thank you lazypup. While I understand a lot of what you have told us, I am going to print your message and have my husband go over it with me. He first seriously started taking pictures in the 70s with a Nikon SLR, but he really likes the digital SLRs since he can take as many photos as he wants, view them on the computer (with my help), select the best, save them to a CD, print them or have them printed at a very low price.

Jane
anna_lisa
Original Author
16 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Thank you for the information I like the picture of the cardinal its great. My Nikon d5000 had 12mp and it great took a picture of a fly the other day. I should try and post it have not done that in a long time. I wonder I have some picture on flickr and if i post the link if everyone would be able to see the picturs hmm

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