we swapped our dining room and kitchen but in our case kitchen was in front of house and old dining room was in back. sounds like a good switch in your case- good luck!

I don't see a problem w/seeing the Kitchen from the front door. In our house, when you walk in the front door you see the LR to the left, stairs to the right and the kitchen straight ahead... I think you'll see the ovens, but I won't know for certain until we nail down the pantry changes.

Give me some time...I assume the W/H stays where it was back when you first began this weeks (months?) ago....

How do you want to break it up? Do you want the DR space + some of the kitchen space for the new kitchen? Or, do you want to keep the current spaces "separate", just switched?

Can the water heater move a wee bit?

It's the kitchen/dining room wall that's coming down, or the dining/family room wall?

It really would depend on how much and what part of the kitchen you see from the entry. Our last kitchen was too visible from the entry for me. If the kids still had dishes on the bfast bar or a baking project going on, I didn't like having someone at the door see it all.

Also, I wouldn't like guests walking through my kitchen to get to the dining room table, so that would be a consideration.

I really have to see if there's a workable plan to have a real opinion, I guess.

Hmm. Good point, rhome. I do like the privacy of the current kitchen, but I need to find a way to keep my buffet and the water heater. I assume the water heater can be moved down a little bit without causing major problems. Here is a pick of the inside of the water heater cabinet. As you can see, the venting/plumbing what-have-yous goes through the ceiling, not the wall.

Inside Water Heater Cab

here's the 1940s buffet I have to find a place for: Buffet

here's the view from the front entry. The little bump out is where I currently have a built in china cabinet. It was originally a closet. Maybe this is where the pantry goes? View from Entry

This is the dividing wall between the dining room and kitchen. We're taking this wall out and matching the vaulted ceiling to make it one room. I assume we would be using some of the space in the current kitchen for new kitchen since it would make a huge dining room and a teeny tiny kitchen if we didn't.
Dividing Wall

The farther wall in this picture is the wall between the dining room and family room. We need to keep at least some wall space here so that I have a wall to put my barrister bookcase against. This is also a load bearing wall. Family Room wall Please excuse the mess on the peninsula. You can also see the water heater cab next to the pantry cab in this picture. Makes for yummy chewy cheerios.

This is the barrister bookcase. Bookcase

Okay. Hopefully that will help give some context. The sliding doors can change in size or shape to suit a workable plan.

Oh, the area in the middle on the backyard wall where there is no sliding glass door is not accessible (there are no stairs/patio in that location).

The bump out area where the china built-in is currently is load bearing. In this picture, you can see the columns on the other side of the hallway and the load bearing wall. The columns and wall share the load. Load Bearing Wall

Here's a view of the hideous built-in china cabinet and down to the entry from the current dining room. View down to entry Please excuse the dishes. We hadn't cleared the table yet.

Bumping this in hopes of a few good layout ideas to deal with the water heater.

Keeping in mind: we're going for a semi-unfitted look and trying to reduce the number of upper cabs as much as possible. Would like to fit in a hutch somewhere. need to maximize views to the backyard. 2 very young kids. Can use closet in FR for message center/org closet, so no worries about incorporating that into the kitchen.

Sheesh. I'm halfway back to wanting to move the kitchen to the family room. If I did that, I would need to open up the wall between the FR and current DR, as well as the wall between the DR and kitchen. FR/DR wall is load bearing so we'd need to work in a column/beam and move a vent.

I'm no layout guru, but I'll give you my opinion anyway :)

IMHO, I think the kitchen is in a good place currently and it seems a shame to move it just because of the water heater. Could you expand the washer/dryer area to include the water heater? You may lose a little of the wet bar (I think that is what is there), but definately a better option than in the kitchen.

Well, that's my 2 cents for what it's worth.

Hmmm. That's a definite idea, mom2lilenj. I need to use some of that wetbar space for our turtle tank (ugh -- don't ever, ever get suckered into a wee turtle if you go to a fair with a little kid who's a big Nemo fan, btw -- we started out with a 2" turtle and now have a 10" turtle and a 50 gallon tank...), but the space from the front of the stairs to the wall between the wetbar and laundry room is approx. 6'. If I close up part of the staircase from the FR, I might be able to still put the turtle tank in even if I have to put the water heater there.

I don't like the idea of moving the kitchen at all. See Oceanna's post on the Home Decorating thread for what it might look like seeing the kitchen from the entry. Hers is a much smaller piece you see. I guess you could close it off to have more of a limited view in that direction BUT ...

It Seems like more costly than moving the water heater. What is above the water heater? A 2nd story? If just attic then moving it is an easy thing and I would rather do that than going through moving the plumbing etc. for a whole kitchen.

Here's my two cents:
Because the view is so wide and open from the front door, I probably would not put my kitchen in the center.

If I were doing it, given todays bias towards:
open floor plans, less formal spaces, multi-generational parties that end up in the kitchen around huge islands, etc. I would consider:

1.) swapping Kitchen and Family room. Use the larger space for a large kitchen and island.
2.) Keep the dining room where it is, but opened up on both sides as much as possible
3.) do a series of beautiful archways between all three rooms to support load bearing walls, but create an open feeling
4.) take the existing wall (which I'm sure is also load bearing)out between the walkway and existing kitchen and repeat again the arches. So from the family room you would see down to the Living Room (if I understand your home layout correctly)and you'd do away with the long cooridor/catwalk to the master - thereby gaining a more open space through out the whole house.

Now having done all that - you have lost alot of wall space for your two beloved pieces (the bookcase and hutch).
My thoughts on that would be: The bookcase could be either moved to the living room, which you will now see from the family room, and given a place of prominence: or place it on the master bedr. wall in the Family Room. I'm still thinking on the hutch....

Finally, depending on where your gas line is, you could consider a fireplace on the Master wall in the FR, or in a center wall between the DR and FR with arches on either side. The Fireplace would open to the FR and the back side of the Fireplace could be the wall for the hutch. And then put arches on either side of the FP. With the cooridor gone, you will gain some extra space around this area. I think the WH closet can probably remain where it is, just be absorbed into walls, arches, etc.

Just some ideas to play around with and confuse you more. But, as I always say - the more ideas - the better the final design! Good Luck!

Definitely worth thinking about. I have played around with the idea of eliminating the wall between the current kitchen and living room, but I think I lose too much wall space. We have an extensive book collection, and use the family room for two computer desk areas, games, and book cases galore. It also doubles as a second guest room, which we use at least 4-6 times per year, so we need to be able to close it up somewhat to give the guest a little privacy. We also have very little wall space for hanging art as it is.

Here's the catwalk wall now: Gallery Wall

In the living room, there's no room for my bookcase (I had originally wanted to put it next to the fireplace, but it's too long). This is how it wound up in the FR. If we swap the FR and kitchen, we would need to find a place for the bookcase in the new FR. I think we would also be looking at a bump out in order to have enough room for a sofa and chairs + the bookcase/desk built-ins that go in that room.

A couple more thoughts for the buffet:

1.) you could put it in the nook of the current family room/new kitchen between the two stairs
2.) If you used the arch concept, you could use a large arched opening between the DR & Family Room (come in a ways from both sides and connect the WH area to one end of the arch) and a half-wall with the same matching arch between the DR and Kitch for the buffet to be against. The top of the Half wall could also serve well for a buffet line, too. Ie) Double deep buffet line, with staggered height.

We're staying up way too late finishing our house, and 3 of the kids have been sick (so far), so I'm not quite 'all here,' or have time to give every link full consideration for you...But I did look at the photo of the view from the entry. For me, that was enough. I would not want that wide open view of the kitchen from the entry. It's just too much without any real way to hide the working area. But I'm not a fan of open kitchens...To a more private family room, OK, but not to everywhere.

My other question: I thought you made allowances for the water heater in your kitchen plans? Did I miss a new dilemma regarding it?

Sorry But I too would not like a the kitchen to be visible from the front entry.

Thanks, rhome. That's pretty much what I needed to know. The problem I'm having with the water heater is that if I go with an L plan in the current kitchen location, I have to work in a pantry somewhere, and the best spot is the inside corner. But a corner pantry needs to be at least 4'X4' inside to make it functional, and this is eating up about 54" of wall space along the fridge wall. With the fridge and MW/oven stack on that wall and a dish hutch, I have no counter space on that wall, which leaves me only about 33" on either side of the range, and the range-end of the island for landing and prep. So I started to worry to get concerned that wouldn't be enough work space as the kids get bigger and start wanting to experiement in the kitchen. Oy. Plus, I lose my bev center -- not a deal breaker, but I'd like to work it in if possible ... Oh, and I would need to go with an expensive fridge that has the hinges that can open fully against a wall. Argh.

Was thinking that the doors to the backyard should be in the family room and the kitchen, with a window on the wall where the dining room slider is now. That would give me a place for my buffet (still haven't given up on it yet -- I do love it). I would shorten the door in the kitchen with a sidelight in order to direct traffic toward the dining room end instead of the range end.

Oy. Maybe I need to move the water heater to the corner with a door accessible from the catwalk, and put the pantry at the end of the line -- just forego the lovely walk-in pantry. Harumph.

I will have to search back and look at your kitchen plans again. Would it help to do the U, modified, with windows and a 36" wide door to replace the slider?

Possibly. I have no idea what that would look like. In previous plans, I was playing with a 48" range and a MW drawer, but the 48" range only fits with decent drawer space on either side if I don't have a corner pantry, so I went back to a 36" range and an advantium 120 + second oven stack. Thought it would be nice to have a MW, warming drawer and toaster oven all rolled into one (since the 120 seems to be about the same $$ as a MW drawer, and the range will be less $$, too).

What if you wall off the current dining room entrance, thus having an "art wall" to look at when you enter the house, and put a new opening between the living room and the current kitchen/future dining room. You would access the kitchen both through the dining room and through the family room. I like the family room where it is because it's near the kid bedrooms. Also, if the dining room is closer to the master bedroom, I would think it would be more of a peaceful, quiet retreat.

histokitch -- would you move the front entrance, then, or leave it where it is? Having trouble visualizing the foyer in this scenario.

I think I'd leave the entrance where it is and at the top of the stairs straight ahead would be the new wall, maybe with a niche in it with low bookshelves and art or a mirror above. So you'd walk in the door, go up the stairs, and turn right to go into the family room and then from there you could go into the kitchen. Does that make sense?

Histokitch, you've intrigued me. I like the art niche idea. Would you then open up an arch from the new dining room (current kitchen) so that there is an open view from family room to living room below?

Would you open up the wall between the DR/Family room completely, or just have a partial opening?

Now I have to think. ;) I might have to get out the graph paper. I would say yes to the new arch, and the opening of the wall to the family room would depend on the layout of the kitchen and if you want the two spaces totally connected from a functional point of view.

Histokitch-- is this what you had in mind?

Would someone who has the 3D software be willing to show me what this would look like with the wall at the top of the stairs (there are 5 stairs -- 1/2 flight only)?

Here's the dining room/kitchen swap. DR/Kitchen Swap

I may not be getting the total picture of how it orients to the rest of the house (I think I am, but it seems we see things from a different direction each time, and I get a bit lost), but the kitchen plan looks pretty good. Is there such a thing as a 15" beverage center? I thought a beverage center was a place for fridge, glasses, and serving, so that confuses me a bit. Is it just an undercounter beverage fridge? Again, I didn't know there was any that small and wonder how much they'd hold. My bigger concern is about the backside of the person at the sink being in the main path coming from and going into the family room. ;-)

Does this give you overall advantages enough to warrant the expense it's going to be to swap the rooms, tear down and build walls, move utilities and vents, etc.?

That's the general room layout. I think it's a good start on the kitchen, too. Where's your water heater?

I took the water heater out -- assumed for a minute that we can move the water heater to the garage or go tankless for a reasonable cost.

rhome -- the "bev center" would be an u/c bev fridge. Yes, marvel has some very nice 15" bev centers that fit in the same size as a trash compactor, and hold plenty for our needs. Not sure if it would give me enough bang for my buck moving the walls, but I have to admit I like the extra entrance to the Family room. Might want to add that doorway even if we don't swap rooms.