Please REREAD my original post.It was never meant to be condecending or belittle anyone who eats or makes white bread.That being said you did nothing in the way of offering help to someone who was asking about whole grain baking.Its great that you can bake by feel and make ajustments based on your experience.Where does that leave someone who is a novice and needs help? How many recipes from our mothers and grandmothers have been lost forever because they did it by feel and no one ever bothered to measure the ingredients or jot down baseline instuctions, so future generations would have a starting point and be able to enjoy a heritage dish.Everything we create in life has to have a recipe or starting point from which to go;it either being in your head or from a book.I have 30+ bread books and good or bad they all provide a basis on which to start.Reinhart's book on whole grain baking is one of the better on that topic,in my humble opinion,and has taught me a great deal and that was the only reason I chose to answer the question.It was certainly not to get in a battle of words with someone who completely misinterpreted my remarks.

Lucy- See, the siren song of your pizzas, so delicious that they even lured Lou in to take a peek :-). I must have spaced & completely missed your suggestion about baking the pizza on the stone with the cast iron pan above. I wish that I had noticed it! I'll try it that way this weekend (my guys looooove pizza- I swear that's why my husband married me, the fact that I made pizza & the whole Italian Christmas eve fish frenzy). I was a woman posessed and made pizza this weekend while test driving recipes for the boozy bake off. Using Julia's french bread recipe for the crust was insipired and produced a much crispier crust than I had ever achieved before. This dough could also be worked much thinner than my usual pizza dough. I'll be using this dough method from now on unless I'm in a super hurry for pizza. While my pizzas were nowhere near as gorgeous as yours the pizza under the stone (baked on the cast iron pan) was far superior to the one baked over the stone (but not directly on the stone, what a dope I am!). I will begin the quest for a second stone...and a peel! Do we even have a restaurant supply place in our neck of the woods anymore? The one in Port Chester is still there, I think, but the huge one in Elmsford is gone & the one in Peekskill seems to have mainly commercial ranges and giant mixers. I love to mix provolone in with the mozzarella but my son claims it's "too spicy" (he's 3, whatcha gonna do?) Oh Lou, I crave one of those outdoor brick ovens! My father used to build them (him being a bricklayer) but he passed when I was a little girl. He'd be very amused to see his little girl pining for one of those old ovens that he used to make. I swear, I'm gonna have to build it myself one of these days. BTW- I got my baking stone on the clearance shelf at Kohls for 3$ a few years ago. It can't hurt to keep an eye on the dept store clearance, especially after the holidays. I would definitely be interested in the wirtual pizza party, as well as the cupcakes. throw in cocktails and, well, you're playing my song :-). Nina

Oh, my.... Where to start! I have somewhere around 30 different grains/seeds/beans in storage that I use for making all our baked goods and mill my own flour. Not sure if milling is something you are interested in. I also mill all our cereals, flakes, and make most of our snack foods using whole grains/seeds/beans. I'd have to recommend a trip to your local library as a good place to start. Look for some of these titles (in no particular order) as well as other good offerings shelved there: -King Arthur Flour Whole Grain Baking Cookbook -The Splendid Grain - Rebecca Wood -Ancient Grains for Modern Meals - Maria Speck -Whole Grains Every Day Every Way - Lorna Sass -The Amazing Wheat book - LeArta Moulton -All-American Waves of Grain - Grunes & Van Vynckt -Best-Loved Whole Grain Recipes (Favorite Brand Name) -The New Book of Whole Grains - Marlene Anne Bumgarner -The Pleasure of Whole-Grain Breads - Beth Hensperger That's just scratching the surface of what I have in my library. Check out web sites like: Bob's Red Mill Hodgson Mill King Arthur Flour If you have more questions, fire away... -Grainlady

I've been reading these and all of trailrunner's post. They are just great. All the hints were great. I bake bread out of boredom, I rarely use a recipe, for better or worse and like the wet doughs as well as quicker higher yeast doughs for pizza. Someday I'll get that "super peel" with the cloth belt thingy. I am forced to pre-cook my thin pizza crusts without one- My favorite bread is an olive bread that is made locally in the East Bay and sold now only at the local Berkeley farmer's market- you can go to their bakery, and they will sell stuff to you, but it's not a store front, no sales help, no hours- if they are there they'll sell it to you- they're also fresh pasta makers- 'Phoenix Pastificio'- if you're ever in the area. I've never tried to make that bread, it's almost Holy to me...( although I know he uses a biga and those black Kalamata olives). It has a thin almost black burnt crust, with large ciabatta holes to the crumb and flavor to die for.