I bought that book and received it just last week all I can say is if I hadnÂt read TriciaÂs bread baking tutorial in the FAQ plus all the post from the great bread bakers on this forum for the last couple of years I would have thought the same thing. It actually made since to me and surprised me at just how much I have learned from the forum. I just wish I could have Tricia, Carol, AnnT, Annie, Lindac and a few others in my kitchen for a couple of days then maybe I would really know what I was doing. LOL

Claudia

I don't know the particular book, but I've heard his name before. I did consider buying one of his books when I was researching bread books, but the descriptions made it sound more complicated than I needed, being pretty much a beginner at breadmaking myself. I almost bought his The Breadmaker's Apprentice.

I'm into bread making at the moment - let us know how you make out with it and if it's worth the level of knowledge he imparts. Sometimes you just don't need that much info, but for other things understanding on a deeper level helps.

Breadmaking can be quite complex - as I'm learning lol!!

Lisa

I thumbed through it at the local mega-bookstore, and it looked pretty good to me.

I haven't bought it yet (I'm on Atkins, and have given up bread, even whole grain, for a few months) but when I get back to baking I will get it.

I have done a lot of whole grain baking in the past, and it is more technically demanding than baking with white flour. (Stating that another way, using white flour makes baking easier. Much.) So the fact that it is heavy on technical details makes sense. You can make great bread without white flour, but it does require a little more attention to detail.

Most cookbooks, if they address whole grain breadmaking at all, have recipes that are best described as 'white flour bread that has some whole grain flour mixed in', not pure whole grain recipes. Very few cookbooks out there totally avoid white flour. So the niche that Reinhart addresses is a small one, but one that necessarily needs more precise instructions. Another good book out there is 'Laurel's Kitchen Bread Book'--it's about $16 on Amazon or used at Addall.com starting around $4. I found it very helpful, and was able to make great bread by following its directions. Reinhart's book is more technically oriented. Not that one is 'better' than the other (I would think they complement each other) but if you think that Reinhart's approach might be too off-putting, you might try the Laurel's Kitchen Bread Book. I was a total newbie to whole grain baking, and it walked me through the process without a hitch. (Indeed, one of the chapters is called 'A Loaf for Learning'.)

As far as weighing: splurge on a scale. They're cheap and make baking much easier and far more precise. The weight of a cup of flour is very variable depending on if it's sifted and fluffy or compacted and dense, so measuring flour by weight is more accurate than scooping out cups. I picked up a decent scale on eBay from a store called 'just pounds and ounces'--the seller has a bunch of auctions going at any one time. Apparently he or she makes money off the shipping since I bought a scale for a few dollars and the shipping was around $16. I don't care how they allocate the purchase price, I got a very adequate scale at a very cheap price (Whatever scale you buy, make sure it has a 'tare' or zero function. Here's how that works: Put your mixing bowl on the scale. Hit 'tare'--it zeroes the scale so then whatever ingredient you are putting in the scale, that's what the display readout is displaying. If the recipe calls for 2 pounds, just pour in flour until it hits 2 pounds. If you overdo it, just take a little out. Then hit tare again and add the next ingredient. After you play with it a while it'll be second nature.

Also: most digital scales can switch between ounces and grams. If you do get into baking you might want to get used to dealing with the metric system. It's a little awkward at first but once you're used to it, life is very simple.

Here...

Peter Reinhart is very, very good and very knowledgeable. He's also very precise in many of his methods, which doesn't mesh well with my way of baking bread.

Bread is as easy or as difficult as you wish to make it, but baking with whole grains as a major ingredient in bread can be problematic until you get a handle on how it's going to work for you.

I have the utmost respect for Peter Reinhart and his abilities but I don't read his books because, well, it just annoys me. LOL I do have a weakness for heavy, dense, dark, grainy "peasant" type breads, though, so I've used some of his recipes. I just read the ingredient list and then stop reading and make the bread. (grin)

For those who like to know the science of bread, he's a good resource, although perhaps a little intimidating. I never weigh ingredients though, and that goes double for bread because too many environmental influences affect the final outcome. You can weigh flour today and it's fine, but tomorrow the same weight of flour can be too wet or too dry. Bread can be a science, if that's what you want to make it, but it's not an exact science.

Annie

I was actually one of the recipe testers for this book for a while. At first I was really into it and enjoyed it very much, but then life got hectic and I found my eyes glazing over when reading the instructions and decided "ummmmm....maybe this isn't for me."

Like Annie I have tremendous respect for P.R.'s work, though I agree he's not to everyone's taste. It's kind of like Rose Levy Beranbaum. Some appreciate her approach to baking and others find it overwhelming or tiresome.

A book that is a little more "user-friendly" with lots of really good practical tips for whole grain baking (not just breads) is the one from King Arthur Flour. Take a look at the link.

For breads specifically, Beatric Ojakangas' "Whole Grain Breads by Machine or Hand" is a good one.

P.S. For a thorough look at why bread does what it does, try "Bread Science: The Chemistry and Craft of Making Bread" by Emily Buehler. There aren't even any recipes in this one. She's actually pretty readable, but you may find it a bit much. Kind of like the little boy who asked his teacher for a book on penguins. When she asked him how he liked it he said, "This book told me more about penguins than I wanted to know about penguins."

Bread Science.

Carol

Here is a link that might be useful: King Arthur Flour Whole Grain Baking

I agree with Annie1992, bread making can be as simple or as complicate as you make it to be. I have been making breads for 20 years. When I make a basic sandwich loaf I don't bother to measure or follow any recipes. Having said that, some special breads require a certain amount of hydration and specific temperature. For that reason, I would follow a good recipe to a tee.

Teresa, how cool is that to be a recipe tester?! But after seeing this cookbook I can only imagine how tedious it might have gotten. I'm not a novice breadmaker-I can turn out a loaf of white without using a recipe but these recipes are very involved and none that I see can be made in a day-they almost all involve three parts: a soaker which must sit at room temperature for 12-24 hours, a biga which has to be refrigerated at least 8 hours and then the final dough. The technique isn't hard but requires a lot of planning. I do have a scale and I don't know what I would do without it.

I feel a bread making project coming on :)

Tracey

I am sitting here smiling at some of the responses to your post.If it is your goal to never make anything more challanging then white bread then this book is not for you.Please don't be overwhelmed by the text. It is all about consistency and flavor.The recipes are a little daunting at first glance but trust me when I say they are totally worth the time and effort.You have to allow yourself to learn and by failing on occasion we learn by our mistakes.Arley's advice about the scale is about the best advice anyone can offer and the recipes in this and Reinhart's other books will astound you.We have all been to places where we and others rave nonstop about the bread.Thats why they call it artisan...and it takes some time to learn. This book will cut that time dramatically.Good luck now go for it!!!

At a used book store I picked up the 1990 "Ken Hendrich's Country Baking" cookbook. He describes it as "Simple Home Baking with Wholesome Grains and the Pick of the Harvest." (It is available on Amazon.) The recipes are made with about half whole grains and half white flour and are very intense, but good for you if you are looking for all that fiber and nutrition and want to ease into whole grains (we who have been raised on Wonder Bread and Twinkies). I prefer a light sandwich bread so the Soft Oatmeal Sandwich Bread is delish. There is a good section on Yeast Bread-making that discusses the "why" that many cookbooks leave out. Most of the sweet breads, cookies and pies in the book are really toothsome and has some unusual combinations that are great (Pineapple Upside Down Gingerbread Cake). I find I eat smaller portions to feel satisfied when I make any of these recipes so it actually helps watch my weight. LOL

If you think about it - cooking meat, veggies, fruits allows you to add a cup more of this and a smattering of that without disrupting the outcome. With baking (anything) it truly IS chemistry - i.e., the ratio of fat to flour, the measure of liquid to dry - and can't be toyed with very much. I don't need the chemistry lesson so much as the TNT recipe which I follow closely because I am not very good at creating my own proportions.

I sell homemade treats (old fashioned and also gluten-free) at the local farmers market and have converted all my TNT sellers to weighted measurements. It gives me the consistency that is essential to my repeat customers and amazingly is time-saving to boot. I made a chart of ingredients by cup and its corresponding weight in ounces (i.e., cup of apricots = 7.2 oz.) that I use to convert all my baking recipes. There are many websites that already have the equivalents figured out for you. An inexpensive food scale is a must. If you think that you don't need one just remember the time you had company coming and your TNT brownies were flat as a board, or the special birthday cake was a soggy mess - too much flour, not enough leavening, too few eggs, etc. I watch reruns of Alton Brown and his measurements are weights. He makes a whole lot more than I do so I trust his judgment for using that method.

Nancy

Here is a link that might be useful: Example of ingredient weights

Now I've gotten curious about this book. I'm going to see if our library has it, too.

Strangely enough, I find myself going to Deborah Madison's recipe for whole grain bread more than any other, but I actually combine her recipe with one from Julia Child's baking book (the name of it escapes me right now and I don't have time to go look at it.) I love whole grain bread, but I also can appreciate a good, as in home baked, white bread, (I hate store bought white bread) and the breads in between. Alas, I wish bread didn't have so many calories.

Sally

Thanks for the additional references and encouragement. I have been baking bread for awheile now so I don't consider myself a novice. I also have a scale and I understand the principals that Peter Reinhart explains so thoroughly. It really is as he states a completely new way of breadmaking. Right now for me the challenge is finding a block of time to do this. I work part time and I have two munchkins in baseball with two games each a week plus practices. Plus I'm in the car an hour each afternoon simply picking the kids up from school. But I've vowed to try at least one recipe before returning the book. Thanks again everyone.

Oh, and like I said. I DO have a digital kitchen scale that I use for everything. I do a lot of baking and it's become indispensible.

Tracey

Link to a Reinhart video lecture...Have a great weekend

Here is a link that might be useful: Video

fotomat, I can certainly bake more than a plain white loaf, I worked my way through an entire bread book once, baking every single recipe. I've made Jame's Beard's white bread, Julia Child's French Bread and Bernard Clayton's Frisian Loaf. Right now I have an oatmeal/whole wheat/honey loaf on the counter just out of the oven from King Arthur Flour's whole grain recipes. I've done my time with bigas and poolish and my own sourdough. I owned a bar/restaurant for over a decade and baked all the breads we served there fresh every day and have been baking bread since Grandma taught me how when I was about seven.

Peter Reinhart's methods just annoy me. I don't want to spend three days baking a loaf of bread, most times I don't want to spend two days baking a loaf of bread. When I get a "wild hair" and want to bake bread I don't usually plan it days in advance.

I don't have a scale and wouldn't use it for bread anyway. The recipe that calls for 2 cups of whole wheat flour today will need a bit less tomorrow and a bit more next Wednesday. No scale will ever take the place of actually putting your hands on the dough and adjusting for the humidity, the climate, the flour used and a score of other things.

And so, to each their own, but just because I find Peter Reinhard's methods cumbersome, time consuming and boring doesn't mean I can't bake bread another way.

Annie

AMEN, Annie!

I used P. Reinhardt's methods for months and it was very time consuming. I don't have that much time. Even my sourdough baking has to be done on the weekends when I can be around more to check on things. I do try to always have yeast, flour, grains, dry milk, dried fruit, oil/butter and eggs on hand so I can make anything that strikes my fancy without having to make a trip to the store - whether it is scones, corn muffins, multi-grain bread, focaccia or pizza.

Annie

SORRY...for trying to give words of encouragement to someone who asked if anyone was familiar with the book or its recipes. I realize that some people don't have the time or inclination to expand their horizons.I unlike others did not point out one person to whom I addressed a response,but just for the record James Beard's white bread, Julia Child's French Bread,Bernard Clayton's Frisian Loaf and King Arthur Flour's oatmeal/whole wheat/honey loaf would all be considered white bread.

How and why did I sign my post "Annie?" A typo for sure; guess I just had "sweet Annie" on my mind.

Teresa

Hold It!!!

We're all trying to help each other lets take a beat and realize we're all just trying to help :)

Bread is not a cinch, no trauma in getting help the first couple times you attempt it!

Well, excuse me, but I found that post condescending and the premise slightly insulting and so replied directly to the poster.

I'm certain that 47 years of bread baking could not POSSIBLY render me capable of baking anything except white bread in anything less than 3 days, so my apologies for stating my opinions.

As I originally stated, I've tried Peter Reinhard's recipes and methods and simply find them annoying. Is the bread good? Yes, it is. Is it worth three days of my time? Nope. Are other methods capable of producing bread just as good? Certainly.

And for the record, I've made 100% whole wheat bread, various rye breads, a relatively nice 10 grain bread. I've even ground locally grown wheat with an old hand cranked mill and made bread from that. It was also good, but that wasn't worth the trouble either.

So Tracey, please go right ahead and take half a week to bake a loaf of bread. It'll be great, I'm sure. I'm going to just bake some biscuits, they're white bread and I'm competant to do that.

Annie

Original Question....
Is anyone here familiar with the book or tried any of the recipes?
Oh, the book is "Peter Reinhart's Whole Grain Breads"
Responses by annie1992

"I don't read his books because, well, it just annoys me"

"baking with whole grains as a major ingredient in bread can be problematic until you get a handle on how it's going to work for you."

"I find Peter Reinhard's methods cumbersome, time consuming and boring "

"Are other methods capable of producing bread just as good? Certainly." (PLEASE SHARE)

"So Tracey, please go right ahead and take half a week to bake a loaf of bread. It'll be great, I'm sure."

All fine advice from a 47 year baking guru...thanks for your help and support

Yikes! Didn't mean to start a conflict. If you knew me in person, you'd know how much I try to avoid that :) Anyways, my goal is to one day be like Annie and the other wonderful bread bakers on here who can turn out a decent loaf of any type of bread they choose without having to follow a recipe. Having said that, I'm also a secret scientist at heart and enjoyed weighing out my yeast to the exact gram with this method. I feel like a pro :)

So the first loaf is rising as we speak. Pictures to follow later today. Thanks again EVERYONE for your encouragement!

Tracey

I'm sorry Tracey, you know that I'm not normally contentious, tending to just let argumentative posts alone. So, although that last response doesn't really merit a reply, I'll try to be reasonable.

fotomat, a search will bring you countless threads regarding bread types and methods of baking. There is even a even a lengthy and involved tutorial in FAQ. Methods, recipes, books and authors have been discussed and re-discussed. Based on your post, you did not appear to need or want any assistance or discussion and only seemed to state that anyone who didn't like Peter Reinhard's methods must be happy eating WonderBread.

I'm sorry if you didn't find my opinions helpful, however Tracey asked and I responded that I have read at least one of Peter Reinhard's books, used his methods and discarded them as cumbersome and time consuming, although I have kept some of the ingredient lists because the bread is good.

Having been a member here for over 10 years, exchanges such as this are why I used to be here daily and now only post a couple of times a week or less. Somehow, it's just not as much fun as it used to be.

Annie

Please REREAD my original post.It was never meant to be condecending or belittle anyone who eats or makes white bread.That being said you did nothing in the way of offering help to someone who was asking about whole grain baking.Its great that you can bake by feel and make ajustments based on your experience.Where does that leave someone who is a novice and needs help? How many recipes from our mothers and grandmothers have been lost forever because they did it by feel and no one ever bothered to measure the ingredients or jot down baseline instuctions, so future generations would have a starting point and be able to enjoy a heritage dish.Everything we create in life has to have a recipe or starting point from which to go;it either being in your head or from a book.I have 30+ bread books and good or bad they all provide a basis on which to start.Reinhart's book on whole grain baking is one of the better on that topic,in my humble opinion,and has taught me a great deal and that was the only reason I chose to answer the question.It was certainly not to get in a battle of words with someone who completely misinterpreted my remarks.

SOooooo...

As a bit of a bread newbie, but with a background in the sciences, would this be a good reference for me? When I see "this bread cookbook is like a chem. text", I'm thinking, "heyyy maybe that's what I need!"

Does it have a lot of the basics, and the reason FOR the basics?

In my opinion it might be a little too advanced for a newbie....perhaps someone else has a better option.As I have stated before its one of the better books regarding whole grains but you may have to quit your dayjob since most of the recipes take upwards of 3 weeks to even smell bread,although Tracey had great luck in just 4 days much to the dismay of some viewers.Actually working time was little to no different than any other bread,it just takes a little planning.

Here is a link that might be useful: good newbie book

Fori, I just don't know if I'd recommend this or not to someone who's never made bread. It is very straightforward but there is almost too much information. If you've been making bread for awhile, then I say go for it. Once you get to the actual recipes, it's pretty smooth sailing. Could you do what I did and check it out from the library first to see if you like it?

Tracey

Thanks, Foto and Tracey. I've been making bread for a while but always the same thing, with minor modifications. I guess I could get off my rear and go to the library and check out both books...