I am recently estranged from my 26 year old son. It happened last summer after what was supposed to be a wonderful family trip to Hawaii. We invited my oldest son and his wife to come along with us, all expenses paid. We had been fortunate to have free air travel due to mileage. To make a long story short, are daughter in law has never liked us. Almost as soon as I met her I told my husband that she was very comfortable with us (i.e. lack of respect!) As soon as they were engaged I started hearing about things I had done that 'hurt her badly," from my son. This went on up to the wedding, with me continually apologizing and making amends for crimes I didn't commit. My husband told my son at the wedding that we really wanted his wife to call us Mom and Dad now, not by our first names which she had been given permission to address us by (reluctantly.) Since we had so much turmoil in the 1 1/2 that they were engaged, we thought it best to stay out of their lives as much as possible so that perhaps she would feel more secure and comfortable with us. We wanted them to know we weren't going to be interfering. We stuck by our guns, but continually were insulted by the way she conducts herself with us at get togethers. She acts bored, doesn't join in on the conversation, and is generally awful to be around. My son never seemed to notice her behavior, or if he did he ignored it out of his feelings for her. I should say also that my son had very little experience with dating, and no other serious relationship before he met this girl. I should also say that I believe she mislead him as to what her values were so that she would measure up to what he wanted, just so that he would marry her. A year before our trip to Hawaii we decided to invite them with us and our youngest son. I made it clear to my son that I didn't want to know an answer from him so that if they didn't want to go we wouldn't assume it was she who decided it. I also made it clear straight away that we wanted this to be a family vacation, i.e. do things together most of the time. My son had no problem with that, yet as the time drew nearer I kept getting odd phone calls questioning how much time I meant by most. From the minute they showed up at our door at 7am the morning of the trip I knew it was not going to be good. Most people on their way for 10 days expenses paid to Hawaii would be so excited and in a good mood, right? Not my DIL, she looked like she'd rather be doing anything else. She didn't talk to us in the car, on the plane, etc. Thankfully my husband and I sat together and the three of them sat together. My two sons conversed most of the trip, but my DIL did her own thing and tried to sleep. Hawaii was a nightmare. From the start of getting there they were off on their own. We'd have dinner together and she wouldn't join in and acted bored to tears. When we did spend time together she and my son would be off by themselves, while the three of us walked alone. Finally near the end of the trip it came to a boiling point. My husband took my sons out for a beer and confronted my son about his wife's behavior. My son admitted he had noticed her being quiet. Apparently my son came back and talked to his wife about it since by the next morning she had locked him out of the condo bedroom. My son was beside himself, so my husband managed to get his wife out of their bedroom and outside to talk. My husband is very good at calming emotional situations as he does this quite often in his job. Though he talked to her, she just claimed that she has the type of personality where she'd rather listen. Of course this didn't jive with a few experiences we had in Hawaii where we joined up with friends of my son and DIL that happened to be there. When we were with their friends she was the life of the party, talking, laughing and carrying on. Still my husband talked with her, explained how we were feeling, lsitened to her side and came back to the condo with her announcing to us all that she didn't mean anything by her behavior, that she is just introspective! We spent the last day in Maui with all of us together, but her behavior was just a bit better then it had been. Since my son and I had had words also over the tension, I'd say it was still tense when we got back home even though we had basically made up. The rest of the summer was discussing, arguing, and hearing what we are sure was an out and out lie for her behavior on our trip. She didn't tell my son about this until she was confronted, and my son wouldn't tell me anything other than they had got bad news while in Hawaii. Finally after me pressing him for the bad news by stating we were worried (which we were,) he told me that his wife had thought she had a miscarriage. I asked if she was late, if they were trying, why did she think she had a miscarriage? He told me no to all my questions, and stated she thought she saw something. If she had been pregnant and had lost the baby at two weeks there certainly wouldn't be any evidence she could see. Still, we couldn't accuse her of lying to our son. Also, even though she had a cell phone that would allow her to call the states for a local rate, it never occured to her to call her dr., her mom, or talk to me. She was 'too embarassed' to talk to me because she is so afraid of having a miscarriage because allegedly her mother had several. To think my son fell for this line is absolutely amazing, but then it was ingenuis since most men wouldn't have a clue. It wasn't until she was home that she found out from 'someone' that she didn't miscarry. This was according to my son. Now if that someone had been a dr., I'm sure she would have stated dr., not someone. After her escapade in Hawaii we told our son she could no longer address us by our first names, that we wanted her to call us Mr. & Mrs. as before due to her obvious lack of respect for us. We didn't state the respect part to our son as the reason though. She refused to do so, causing so much anguish for our son. Mind you my son has been seeing a therapist since they got married, and is on medication. His wife however doesn't go to therapy or take meds that we know of. After a tumultuous fall, it reached the breaking point one night when he called with a list of 'issues' he had with us. This is a son who we used to have a wonderful relationship with, and all of a sudden we had wronged him. After a raging arguement at their condo where my son wouldn't let us in his apartment to discuss things, threatened to call the police, and finally had me reacting emotionally by calling my DIL a b*@ch. This was followed by my son calling me a F'ing b*@ch. I was crushed. The next few days were hell, and by day three I emailed my DIL and apologized for my emotional outburst. I put a return receipton the email and copied my son in so that I would know they both saw my apology. She never opened it. My son finally opened it 3 or 4 days after I sent it, but not reply, nothing. I was so angry that even after my apology that he didn't react that I wrote a three page letter listing all the things that had gone on in the past 3.5 years and also a few jabs. It was an email which is all to easy to write and send off before you have time to let everything you said sink in. I'll never send an angry email again, from now on it gets saved as a draft and given some time to think about. Still, even though my email was very blunt, my husband and younger son said I was right in what I had said. I probably could have left out a few remarks that were very sarcastic though, and I'm sure that even though what I said was true that it still hurt my son. Since that time I have only text messaged my son to let him know that I love him and that he is always welcome back. He did return my text with a very short 'thanks' and that he loved me to. He's never called. We didn't see them for Thanksgiving, and only saw them a week after turkey day because my sister in law had a party for her daughter who turned 30. They came and did come in and greet my husband and I, but I know it was a charade since the whole family was basically watching. They never talked to us again that night. My husband wouldn't even stand up to hug my son, though he did embrace him somewhat. My husband also acted as if he didn't see my son's wife to avoid greeting her at all. I did however give a hug to both my son and his wife. Later we all went bowling and were on two different teams. It is a big family so we had about 10 peoples on each team. We never spoke during that time, but when we left I did say goodbye to his wife and hugged my son and told him I loved him. He has never said he is sorry to me for his outburst, and it hurts me so much. I realize now that my son was never the person I thought he was. My younger son has helped me see how selfish he always was, and that though my DIL may be evil, she just helps feed his already immature personality that doesn't seem to be able to be natural. It's as if the two of them are play acting. Everyone thinks they are so special with all the kind things they do for the family, yet who are they the least kind too, us! Their relationship is a facade. They both drink too much, and are both very much 'me' people. They don't speak about important things, and though at one time my son seemed to think family was of the greatest importance, he now seems to not care at all. I don't know if he even loves us or not. I am devastated, and every day seems like I have more weird stress and anxiety symptoms to deal with. I could never have imagined this happening in a million years. We did nothing but bend over backwards for 3 years to please his girlfriend and wife. We wanted to like her because she was so important to him. We would have done almost anything to make things work, but Hawaii was the final straw. If we didn't have my younger son with us I doubt anyone would really believe us that it could have been that bad. Without us ever saying a word to my younger son, the first night when we went out to dinner and my son and his wife split off from us we got a mouthful from the younger brother. Our son came outside by us and told angrily told us that he had never met anyone like his brother's wife. He told us she was ungrateful, and he couldn't understand how she just couldn't pretend to like us. I think I might be insane if it weren't for the fact that a 23 year old see's through her, even if my 26 year old can't. I just don't know how I'm going to survive this. I jsut want to move on and leave him behind. No child who treats his parent's this way deserves to be in their lives. Every day I say I'm moving on, but it is like slow motion and all sorts of things trigger angry emotional feelings. It is so surreal. I know I went overboard writing this message, so please forgive me. I'll take any support, advice that anyone can give. I don't know how i"m going to live out the rest of my days without him, yet I don't want him if he is going to be this cold to us. anniebal

Daughter married a person of her choice, they bought a house ... and later broke up (no kids). She has been in several occupations ... and locations. Later introduced to someone by a high schoool pal: they were together for four years or so, but broke up. Now, unbelievably in mid-40s, she has bought a condo in a far-away location. I never had any part in match-making ... never even had anyone in mind that I thought might be a candidate. Son didn't seem much interested in females for years, I never considered attempting to initiate a contact (probably wasn't familiar with relevant potential suitors, anyway). Recently he has found someone with mainly grown offspring ... via internet, it appears. They have been spending time together. During a recent discussion here of raising children, I said that I'd felt that one of my chief tasks as a parent is to help my child prepare him/herself to work toward independence ... and someone referred to it, saying that she too felt it to be an important part of our parental responsibility. That said, if I'd met someone whom I thought that he might find interesting, I might mention to him that I'd met someone that might be of interest - we've developed a fairly informal, straightforward, easy-going relationship. That would be all that I might do. ole joyful

It works the other way around. My mother died two years ago in Sept, and she asked me to stay with my father, because he couldn't live alone. I was beyond miserable....I felt abused. I complied for a year and a half, till he got remarried (at 90). We're probably both happier now.

Elmer, you said, "...times have changed and I suspect views and practices of the modern day aren't what you assume them to be." I don't live in a cave, Elmer! I'm not assuming anything! I know my DD and DS still call the parents of their friends and my friends Mr & Mrs. My daughter uses a dear friend of mine as her broker - she's known him all her life and she still calls him Mr. I have not lived in Los Angeles in over 34 years, but when I did, I never heard a child in my neighborhood or at my church, call an adult by his first name. And my CA friend's children still call me Mrs... I know what my children's grown friends on Martha's Vineyard call me and what my children call their parents. NEVER by a first name! My DGS informs me that only one of his professors at his Ivy has suggested that his students call him by his first name; he's quite young. All the rest are Professor.... One of the professors there is his godfather and he calls him Uncle Professor... and he loves it! He was a groomsman in my DD's and DSIL's wedding - he had been their professor - and they still call him Professor...and he has never suggested that this change. Elmer, I could care less where you've lived and worked. Clearly we move in very different circles, I would suggest that you not assume you know the social norms in mine. I do know them. The use of honorifics has nothing to do with being stuffy or not being casual; it's a sign of respect. We could use a bit more of that these days.