Posted by foodonastump "So couldn't this "potential difference for more energy to transfer" have an effect on not just the braising liquid, but also on the meat that's in the vessel? Or was America's Test Kitchen completely dillusional when they experimented with cooking pot roast in a dutch oven, in an oven at various temperatures and found: "We then tested higher temperatures to reduce the cooking time. Heat levels at above 350 degrees boiled the meat to a stringy, dry texture because the exterior of the roast overcooked before the interior was cooked and tender. The magic temperature turned out to be 300 degrees - enough heat to keep the meat at a low simmer while high enough to shave a few more minutes off the cooking time." Excellent questions. First, It seems to me that we can all accept that: 1. To the meat in the liquid inside the vessel, it makes no difference where the 212F heat comes from. By the very definition of thermal energy, there is no difference between heat from the oven, stove, coal, candle, -------. 2. However, to the meat, how long the meat stays in the 212F will make a difference. To tenderize the meat, it is important to cook it long, in the ATK experiment, as they stated, they cook the meat at 350 but shorter time, therefore some of the meat is tougher. "By the way, the oven cooking time for their pot roast is 3.5-4 hours after the liquid comes to a simmer, stove top. And yes, with an internal temperature of 210 degrees they themselves called the roast "overcooked", in quotes. In other words it was a desirable result in this case. Again, unless they're dilussional, it sure sounds to me like there's 212, and then there's 212. And that generations of cooks weren't wrong. " I don't think that generation of cooks were wrong. Cooking with a covered Dutch oven inside an oven will produce wonderful results. Whether that will have more delicious end results than doing it with the Dutch oven on the stove top is my question. "Last note - you asked why do it in the oven rather than stove-top. ATK found what LindaC mentioned above: "After a few rounds of stovetop cooking, we felt that it was too difficult to maintain a steady, low temperature, so we began pot-roasting in the oven, starting out at 250 degrees. This method required no supervision, just a turn of the meat every 30 to 40 minutes to ensure even cooking." I can understand that. For the purpose of the repeatability of the experiment, as in any experiment, it is important to maintain recordable and verifiable environmental conditions, and that is much easier done in an oven which has a limiting thermostat. There is no practical way to do that on the stove top. However, I am not sure for everyday cooking anyone would have a problem to get the Dutch oven to be on simmering low-fire setting on the stove top. ---------------------------------------------- BTW, ATK has provided much very useful and important information to the public, however, most of their tests are done in somewhat informal settings. To confirm a true test of 350F vs. 300F in the quality of the meat, I believe the experiment must be done in an oven with an electronic PID type of thermostat which has the ability to control the environment to 0.1 F resolution. Mechanical bi-metal or capillary hydraulic type of thermostats in normal ovens can vary as much as 30F to 50F. Humidity of the cooking environment should be monitored, and a chart recorder should be in operation to record temperature swings throughout the entire cooking time. Because testing by individuals chewing is highly unreliable, it depends on subjectivity, and where the meat from the same cut is taken for the chewing. Proper way to do it perhaps would be using a durometer tester. Finally, no test result is to be considered conclusive until the same test is performed by another independent testing facility. Bottom line: Stewing using a Dutch oven in an oven will make wonderful and delicious stew. However, beef "tenderness" cooked at 212 F is very different texturally than beef tenderness cooked at 135F. dcarch

As mentioned many times, my favourite method is the High Heat Method of Barbara Kakfa's. Produces a perfectly every time. I usually take my beef out of the oven when the temperature reaches 115 to 120°. As it rests for 15 to 20 minutes the internal temperature will rise another 5 to 10 degrees. Home Cookin 4.9 Chapter: Recipes From Thibeault's Table High Heat cooking Instructions ============================== . General Instructions (for Barbara Kafka's "Roasting A Simple Art") "Different meats and different cuts have different cooking times. That's why there are recipes. I did try to find a universal rule so that I could say as I do for fish, "ten minutes per inch" or for chicken "ten minutes per pound," and then describe the exceptions. It didn't work. Timing is as much a factor of fat content, bone content, and the shape of the roast as a specific kind of meat. The only easy rules are for boneless loin of pork or beef (the shell or strip) and venison and beef fillet. They always cook in the same amount of time since the only way they increase in size is according to their length, which will not influence the cooking time." This is her recipe for a Simple Rib Roast 4 1/2 pound without short ribs Standing rib roast (2 Ribs) or 26 Pound standing rib roast (7 ribs total) 2 to 6 cloves garlic, peeled and slivered Kosher salt to taste Freshly ground black pepper 1/2 to 2 1/2 cups red wine for deglazing 1 recipe for Yorkshire pudding. Roast should be at room temperature, not taken directly from the fridge. Place oven rack on the second level from the bottom. Heat oven to 500°F. Place small roast in a 14 X 12 X2 inch roasting pan. bone side down. The large roast will need an 18 X 13 X 2 inch roasting pan. Snuggle most of the garlic, is using, under the fat and spread remainder under the meat. Season well with salt and pepper. Roast for 45 minutes. With meat in oven, reduce heat to 325° and roast for an additional 3 minutes per pound.( i.e.: 4lb =12minutes, 7lb = 21 minutes, 26 lb =78 minutes) etc..Increase heat to 450°F and roast for another 15 minutes regardless of size. Meat temperature should read 135 on an instant - read thermometer. If you like it more rare, reduce the additional 3 minutes per pound to 2 minutes or for less rare, increase the 3 minutes to 5 minutes. Remove roast from oven. Transfer to a serving platter. Pour or spoon off excess fat, reserving about 1/8 cup to 1/4 cup of fat. Put pan over high heat and add wine. Deglaze pan well scraping with a wooden spoon. Let reduce by half. Pour liquid into a small saucepan and reserve. For Whole New York Strip Loin, the directions are a little bit different. According to Barbara Kafka's instructions, it doesn't matter what size the New York strip roast is the directions are the same. Roasted New York Strip Loin one 10 pound New York Strip (16 inches) Trussed 1 head of garlic cloves lightly smashed and peeled, optional 3 to 4 springs fresh thyme kosher salt pepper 1 1/2 cup basic beef stock or a combination of beef stock, veal stock or red wine 2 tablespoons basic veal glaze optional. Place oven rack on second level from the top of the oven, or second from the bottom if the fat cover is thick. Heat oven to 500°F. Place strip of beef in an 18 x 12 x 2 inch roasting pan. If using, slip whole cloves of garlic between underside of meat and string. Tuck in the thyme. Slip some more garlic under the string along the top of the meat. Sprinkle the meat on all sides liberally with salt and pepper. Put into oven one hour before it will be served. Roast for 40 to 45 minutes. Remove and transfer meat to a platter. Cut off strings. Remove the garlic cloves that are too blackened to use. Pour fat from pan. Put the roasting pan on top of the stove. Add stock or wine and the veal glaze, if using and bring to a boil, scraping the bottom vigorously with a wooden spoon. Add flavorings, if using, and any juices that have collected in the platter on which the beef is resting. Let reduce by half. Taste for salt and pepper, pour into a sauceboat and serve. Roasted Whole beef Fillet According to Barbara........"I buy the meat by the inch. It cooks exactly the same way no matter the length as long as it s more than 4 inches long. When ordering, I usually allow about an inch and a quarter per person and an extra half inch for the two end slices. By this rule, six people will require an eight inch piece of fillet. The muscles in a fillet all run lengthwise so that when it is sliced a crossed the serving it is also tenderized. The fillet is also called the tenderloin, and it is tender. It is a long round muscle that hides behind the bones on which the shell steak and the rib roast reside. T-bone steaks have some of the shell and, on the other side of the bone, a circle of the fillet, or tenderloin. A filet mignon is a slice cut a crossed the whole fillet to make an individual steak. 4 to 5 pound whole beef fillet (about 3 to 3 1/2 inches in diameter, a good 18 inches long) 1 tablespoon unsalted butter at room temperature 1 tablespoon olive oil 2 teaspoons kosher salt 1/4 teaspoon freshly ground black pepper 3/4 cup red wine for deglazing, optional, or 1 recipe semi-perigourdine sauce Place oven rack on second level from bottom. heat oven to 500°F Place fillet in an 18 x 12 x 2 inch roasting pan. Rub fillet with butter and oil. Sprinkle evenly with salt and pepper. roast for 10 minutes. turn. roast 10 minutes more. Transfer fillet to a serving platter. Pour or spoon off excess fat. Put pan on top of the burner. Add the wine or sauce and bring contents to a boil while scraping the bottom of the pan with a wooden spoon. Let reduce by half. Season with salt and pepper. And if you have time, definitely presalt.

Alexa, I love Greek food. Here are a few of my favourite Greek recipes. Home Cookin Chapter: Recipes From Thibeault's Table Lamb Shoulder/Breast Greek Style ================================ Lamb Shoulder/Breast or shanks 1 head of garlic, cloves peeled and cracked 1 onion cut into 8ths Oregano Lemon Salt Pepper olive oil chicken broth Brown the meat on top of the stove or in a hot oven. Add the onion, and the peeled garlic cloves. Cook until golden. Add the Oregano, salt, pepper and the juice of a lemon. Cover and place in a 350F oven. Cook until tender. Cooking Time will depend on the size of roast. Option: Use Dill instead of Oregano. Home Cookin Chapter: Recipes From Thibeault's Table Chicken Souvlaki ================ This recipe works well with Pork (I use Pork Tenderloin) and with Lamb. Chicken breasts Fresh minced garlic dried oregano lemons olive oil Salt Pepper Cut chicken breasts into 1 inch cubes. Place on wooden Skewers that have been soaked in water (prevents sticks from burning.. or on metal skewers. Rub with fresh minced garlic and dried oregano Squeeze fresh lemons over chicken and some olive oil. Season with salt and pepper. Marinate for up to 1 hour. If marinating longer do not add lemon juice until the last hour. Lemon juice "cooks" the flesh and changes the texture. Place on hot grill and turn often until done. Serve with Greek salad and rice. Home Cookin Chapter: Recipes From Thibeault's Table Green Bean, Zucchini and Potato Stew (Fassolakia Iadera ======================================================= Adapted from: Krinos Foods (The original recipe called for a large can of tomatoes and did not include garlic or oregano.) Green Bean, Zucchini and Potato Stew (Fassolakia Iadera)This is a traditional vegetable mixture that is often eaten cold, accompanied by hunks of country bread and feta cheese 1/4 cup olive oil 1 cup chopped onion 1 clove of garlic, minced 1 pound fresh green beans, trimmed, halved crosswise 1/4 teaspoon cayenne pepper 8 ounces zucchini, cut into 1-inch-thick slices 8 ounces russet potatoes, peeled, cut into 1-inch cubes 3/4 cup chopped fresh Italian parsley 1 to 2 tablespoons fresh oregano chopped (or dried) 1 14 ounce can of Italian-style tomatoes, chopped. 1/2 cup chicken broth Heat oil in heavy large non-stick skillet over medium-high heat. Add onion and sauté 5 minutes.Add Garlic and green beans and sauté until onion is translucent, about 3 minutes. Add zucchini, potatoes, cayenne pepper, parsley and oregano. Pour tomatoes and their juices over vegetables. Add chicken broth. Bring to boil. Reduce heat. Cover and simmer until potatoes are tender, stirring frequently, about 45 minutes. Season with salt and pepper. Remove from heat. Can be prepared 1 day ahead -- cover and refrigerate. Serve warm or at room temperature. Home Cookin Chapter: Recipes From Thibeault's Table Greek Ribs ========== 1 or 2 Racks of Baby Back Ribs 2 to 3 garlic cloves dried oregano Juice of 1 to 2 lemons Lemon zest (Optional) salt and pepper . Mince garlic and press with back of knife to turn into a paste. (or use a microplane) Rub ribs with garlic, rub on oregano, salt and pepper and lemon zest if using. Squeeze juice of whole lemons over ribs a few hours before cooking. Note: These can be marinated earlier in the day or overnight, but do not add the lemon juice until a few hours before grilling or the lemon will change the texture of the meat. Heat grill to high (both sides) Place ribs on one side of grill and turn that side off. Cook, turning occasionally until ribs are tender. On my grill they take about 45 minutes to an hour depending on the size of the ribs but could take longer depending on grill being used.

This could be too late for you for Father's Day, but I googled up your ingredients and came up with this. Basic Tomato BBQ Sauce 1 regular can of tomato sauce 1 can of tomato paste 2 tablespoons vinegar 2 tablespoons olive oil 2 tablespoons brown sugar 3 cloves garlic, crushed 4 tablespoons onion, minced 1 tablespoon Worcestershire sauce 1 teaspoon dry mustard 1 teaspoon cayenne fresh ground pepper to taste Cook the garlic and onion until it's soft, and then add all the rest of the ingredients. Simmer on low for 20-30 minutes. Keep stirring it often so it doesn't burn, then refrigerate for a few days before you use it. This allows the flavors to blend and mellow. Here is a link that might be useful: bbq sauce