Medusa,

Just off the top of my head, I think you may not have given enough information about your situation.

How old is your son? (Do you mean this son is the "stb 18 year old"?) What do you mean by "recent problem of experimentation with drugs"? Smoking pot at a party may not be such a big deal for an 18 year old but using injection drugs daily is a huge deal for anyone regardless of age. The response would differ, IMHO.

Things may be different in Mexico than they are in other parts of the world but with a little more information I'm sure people would be willing to help.

You're not alone.

I agree that more info is needed, but will add some info:

I don't know how things are in Mexico, but in the US:

If your sone is 18 or older he is an adult, and unless he is court ordered, I'm pretty sure you cannot get him into rehab unless he wants to go.

If he is under 18, and is not "a trouble maker", it is virtually impossible to get them into a drug rehab program. Pathatic, I know but I've had friends try, and their kids were not "bad" enough.

Worldwide, your child may "hate" you now for doing what is right, but please know that you did what you did (or will be doing) out of love. I knew a Mom who was always glad when her son was in jail.....at least she knew he was alive! Sad, but true. He's been clean for 3 years now, and is turning back into the wonderful young man we knew was hiding inside him.

Vickey-MN

Thank you ladies for responding, I almost feel like crying from the relief.

To answer your questions.

I first found marijuana about 2 years or so ago, and supposedly it was just experimenting. He never looked stoned, and I got some drug tests and did them on him and they were positive, so I just let myself sigh in relief and let it go.

Then a couple of months ago I found what I thought was coke, and I started randomly testing him and the tests came back negative.

Then this summer he went to go live with my ex (not his biological father, but the man who raised him with me since he was 18 months old) for about 2 months and my ex called me one night to tell me that one of his employees found him with coke.

(My ex is a very important government official, the equivilant of the assistant state attorney general)

They had a talk and my ex told my son that he would help him and offered to try to quit smoking if my son stopped the coke. Then my ex threw it in the toilet bowl.

My son got so mad he ran away. (first week this past september)

My son never did anything like that before, it scared me very much, and I called all of his friends because I was afraid he would go with some drug lord and start dealing to spite my ex and turn into a full fledged addict.

The next day I finally got him to answer a call, and he said he felt so worthless that and that he felt like he didn't deserve to come home. I told him that that even though he felt like that, the situation wasn't that bad and that we could get through it, but I needed for him to get home.

Fortunately he did come home, later that afternoon. He confessed to have stayed at some dealer's house the night, which scared the hay out of me.

I told him that I wasn't angry and that we needed to talk because I needed to understand how bad the problem was so that we could find a solution and get help.

The first few hours when he got home he said he was willing to go into drug rehabilitation, and my brother in law came over to talk to him. My brother in law said that my son confessed to him that he was using cocaine for about a year now.

Well, then later that night he changed his mind and didn't want to go to a rehabilitation center, but did accept narcotics anonymous.

We went together for about 2 or 3 weeks but then he said he didn't want to go there anymore, with me, and he wanted to go to another alcoholics anonymous closer to our house with a friend who was in recovery.

I routinely gave him tests and on the weekends they were positive.

It got to the point that I was petrified everytime he left the house and I was calling him every half an hour. I was sleeping on the couch dressed in case of an emergency.

(continued on next post)

Then about 2 weeks before Thanksgiving, at about 3 in the morning I felt like something was wrong, and he didn't answer his phone. To make a long story short. He did some crack that night, and had 2 whiskies and hit a curb, couldn't change the tire, got pulled over by a police man for driving the car like that, then got rude with the officer and taken to jail.

By then I was in a taxi looking for him, and my sister called me to tell me he was in jail.

Mexican jails are disgusting. My son was very mad and being rude, and I was really afraid the Mexican police would hurt him, just to spite his stepfather.

I took him some blankets and a pillow, then went back home in a cab, and had to be to work by 8.

That was as close as I wanted to get to his becomming a full fledged addict, and as ruined as I was going to let our life get.

So I started looking around for a clinic that had a program that I thought could be helpful and I found one that is a year long. In Mexico you could have people put in rehabilitation with a consent of parents or spouses, regardless of the age. (it's actually pretty scarey, but I took advantage of the lax laws)

I'm not sure if he did crack before, but I wasn't willing to have a weekend 'doer' and then watch it gradually creep into the week, he flunked everything in his first semester of college(he graduated from high school early), and I didn't want to wait until the last minute on the drug problem. He has really bad behavior issues, and very little respect for me because my ex convinced him that I was crazy to justify ending our relationship.

I get so afraid I may have jumped the gun.

The program is a year long, 3 months with no contact with the family, then 4 months of bimonthly 45 minute visits, and 5 months of 36 hour passes to come home twice a month. The program follows the 12 steps program of alcoholics and narcotics anonymous, and tries to get to the core issues.

Many mothers tell me that I was smart to not wait until it was too late or harder for him to get clean, but I feel like I am robbig him of a year of his life, instead of feeling like I am giving him a chance to 'have' a life.

My son and I had somewhat some good communication going, ironically because of this problem, and I had a couple of chances to tell him that I was not angry at him (because he asked me if I was) but that I was frightened for him because drugs were a serious problem, and I was afraid it would get too out of control for him to handle.

Several times I asked him if he felt like he needed the extra help of rehabilitation when I got the positive tests, and he always told me that he didn't and was cutting down.

The day before I had him taken, I told him that I loved him very much, and asked him if he knew who the really smart people in life were. He said no, why? And I told him that they were the people who were smart enough to know to ask for and accept help when a problem surpassed their possability to deal with.

The next morning I woke him and asked him if he remembered what we talked about the night before and he said yes, and I told him, Honey - the problem is bigger than that which you can do on your own, or I could help you with just with a mommy's love - we are at the point where we need help.

He didn't struggle, argue, beg or anything, he got up, got dressed and went with the doctors who came for him.

No more no less.

This was December 10th. I've gone to the alanon meetings and stuff, but I feel terrible.

The reports are that he is adjusting, he admits to having experimented with almost everything except injections, but insists that his problem isn't bad enough to have to stay a year.

And I so want to agree wtih him...

This is where I need help ladies.......I'm so afraid and I feel so guilty.

The people at the center say that this is normal for him to say and that he is in denial, and that I shouldn't let that information confuse me, and that if he got as far as haivng tried crack, even if once - then I should leave him in rehabilitation.

I'm just afraid I made a mountain out of a moehill and the people are exagerating.

But at the same time I know I just may be dismissing what they say because I so desperately want to hear something else. I'm sorry this is so long, I just felt that I wanted to explain myself as best as I could. Thanks for reading if you got this far,

Liz Marie

I first found marijuana about 2 years or so ago, and supposedly it was just experimenting. He never looked stoned, and I got some drug tests and did them on him and they were positive, so I just let myself sigh in relief and let it go.

should have read:

I first found marijuana about 2 years or so ago, and supposedly it was just experimenting. He never looked stoned, and I got some drug tests and did them on him and they were NEGATIVE, so I just let myself sigh in relief and let it go.

I have not been in your exact situation. I can tell you it is not easy leaving your child with no contact for a period of time. You will be on an emotional roller coaster. Guilt will be an almost constant companion.
Take a deep breath and tell yourself you did what you had to do. You said you checked into the facilitly as to the programs. Did you check to see if ever any problems with the care or management? If you checked it out thoroughly and feel he'll get the care he needs, then you've done what is needed. If you did NOT check it out thoroughly then you need to get in fast mode and do so to determine the quality of care. I certainly hope the care issue is fine with no concerns.
Mothers cannot fix everything for their child with a bandaid. We think we know how their lives are going and then the bomb -- problems being solved with drugs, alcohol or both.
You can discuss the problems but the child will hold back to a certain extent as they do have something to lose. With an outsider, after a while they open up and we learn what the "hurt" is. This too is a painful experience as we believe we are protecting our children from any harm. Now we find things did happen sending them down this road to be rid of the pain.
You may feel a deep guilt but you have to stay strong. Go forward blinded by tears and that oh so heavy weight on your chest. Keep thinking "one more day". You make it and now onto another "one more day".
I wish you the best as it gets ery lonely at times. Take care.
Lynn

Okay, from reading your post(s), I do have to say...not only is your son in denial about his addiction to drugs, but so are you. You did the right thing, did not "jump the gun". He is addicted. Addicts don't have to be on the streets always high. He just had not hit rock bottom yet. (it takes some people YEARS to hit that point).

I can tell you obviously love your son very much, wou would not have done all that you did had you not. Good for you. He will be very angry at you for a while, but remember, you have to love someone to be angry at them. If you don't love them, you would have no feelings if they did something. You did what was right, and that can hurt, but you know that he is getting him the help he needs. Good luck.

Vickey-MN

You've gone this far, why back down now?

Of course your son will say he doesn't need a year of rehab, but he's not a "professional". If the therapist say it's "normal" for patients to say this, then believe them. I'm sure that they've seen it all!

Young adolescents think they know it all!

You've done the right thing. Rehab will take a year of his life but it will also GIVE him YEARS of his life. It's better to take away a year for rehab then to LOSE his life forever!

He thinks that he can "control" his drug use and that's it not that bad. What he doesn't realize is that he needs to deal with the issues/reasons why he is doing drugs. Until those issues are dealt with (through therapy/counselling), he will not be able to control his drug use.

I know from personal experience that being high numbs the emotional pain, but it doesn't make the problems go away. It only creates more problems. A person has to take a stand and finally deal with their problems. When they do, the problems don't seem to be as bad as they thought. Some of the "small" problems can be forgotten forever, and the "bigger" problems can be dealt with one at a time. Eventually giving that person a little more self-confidence, self-love... bit by bit... to the point where they don't need drugs to live a happy life!

Thank you all for the comments, it felt good to get here and see them.

Vicky, yes you are right about addicts not not having to always be on the streets high. It's so tempting to want to accomidate stereotypes (that addicts are on the streets high and dirty) to your advantage so that you can maintain what you want to be 'normalness' in your life. Also, thanks for sharing with me about your friend. I know what she meant that she was happy when she knew he was alive, but the thought of jail scares me so much. I have this idea that it is more violent in there than out.

Lynn, hopefully you are right and he will face what ever he thinks is wrong and he will confront it, work through it and let it go. Poor kid. It's so frustrating to know that there is something eating away at him and I can't fix it. I feel usless, :(.

Khandi, thank you too. I know what you mean when you say that he doesn't realize that he needs to deal with the issues/reasons why is doing drugs, hopefully he will be able to figure it out.

I hurt so much for him.

Today is another day, I try to get through them one at a time too now.

I look forward to being here and also being able to contribute to other threads.

Liz Marie

Hi Liz,
I can certainly understand your fear sadness and uncertainty. 22 Months ago, we found out DD (then 17) was addicted to meth.
Much the same as you, we 'took a stand' and had her put into a rehab facility here in So Cal. Each day was a struggle 'Did I do the right thing?' "What could I have done done different?", ect. Trust that you did the only thing you could do, and you are providing your son with the tools he will need to save his own life.
As pfllh mentioned, please check into the care and safety record of the facilty. Rehab out of the US is notoriuos for being rather 'harsh' and in most countries is unregulated, or monitored, by the governments. If there are safety issues, use whatever means necessary to get your son out.
A one year program for rehab honestly is not unreasonable. Trying to make it sober to one year on the streets is a struggle, being able to learn new stratagies and habits away from the influences that encouraged drug use is a Blessing. DD was in for 30 days, and I had to fight the insurance company tooth and nail for every day she was there because she wasn't addicted 'enough'
Not seeing your son for 3 months seems like forever, but it is not forever, and the remaining visitation schedule seems fair if somewhat limited. Check into phone calls and letter privledges, there should be some form of communication open, even if it is minimal.
Please continue with Al-Anon. The help you will find there is as unbelievable as it is enlightening. It will help you to understand where you fall in the scope of his addiction, and how you can let go of the guilt.
Please keep the Faith, if your son has half of your resolve, he will make it :)

Medusa....you do not have a mole hill dearest, you have a MOUNTAIN. Leave him in rehab and let the professionals work with him. This is a situation that needs to be dealt with by people that do not have emotional attachments to your son. The drugs that he has done are highly addictive and he is an addict. Believe it. It is the hard but honest truth. Do not feel guilty about getting him the help that he needs and giving him the best possible chance to get clean. You may very well be saving his life.

Aunt Diggie, thanks for sharing with me about your DD. I'm curios, if you feel up to it, to knowing how she did with only 30 days of rehab?

There are other facilities here, for example Oceanica, but they cost 20 thousand dollars a month. It's only 30 days too, but I know several people who have been there and they went several times. It's almost like a spa.

Has your DD been able to succeed? Was she addicted long?

Also about the harshness, here, yes the place is harsh, but only if you resist the rules. It's one of the problems that they hightlight that they are adressing. They say that many of the addicts are accustomed to being manipulative and disrespectful of rules and regulations, and at this place they try to make them follow them.

They use punishments that begin with taking away cigaretts if they are smokers, to limiting the foods that they have access to, to not letting them sleep when they want to, they don't hit them and if somebody tries to hit somebody, he is held down by several at a time until he calms down.

They say it's up to the addict how they will be treated. If they cooperate with the rules they will have no problems, if they don't then the consequences of their decisions are their own doings.

And to be honest, my son is a manipulater. Ever since he was a child, well either that, or I am a terrible mother. But he was the type of kid who could insist, and insist, and insist, and insist, and insist, and insist, and insist, and insist, etc., until I ended up frustrated and just caved in.

After that if I didn't follow that routine anymore, it was threats to run away, scratching his arms with sharp things to make me think he cut himself, the silent treatment, crying or most recently, just telling me he knew who to go with to make money. Threatening his sister that he would hurt her pets if she told me he took my car without permission (when he knew how financially ruining it could be for me because he didn't have a license yet), etc.

It got to the point that I was negotiating and giving in to things I did not want to, to avoid worse problems, and that was really hurting me inside.

To be honest, and as much as it pains me, he could use some punishment. My son is almost 6 feet tall and has a shoulder that uses a 48 sportcoat, he has been big since he was 13 and he tries to use his size to bully. I think it will be good for him to know that out in the real world, other people aren't going to put up with his demands.

I 'let' him change schools 4 times in middle school, and 2 times in highschool just because he didn't like the school anymore, and although I caved in because I wanted to make sure he finished school, the message he got was I can ask for and get what ever I want.

To this day, I'm going to need a psychiatrist for years, because now I regret having let his finishing school be so important to me. It's like I should have just said to myself, so what if he is a dropout.

And I could go on and on.....

So, yes, Believer, that is why I am glad that he is going to be dealt with by peole who do not have emotional attachments to him. They will be able to be immune to his pleas or meanipulations.

God, this is so frustrating.

I'm so glad I found this site, thank you!

For what it's worth, from what you've said, I believe you are doing the right thing. I have no insight into this kind of situation, so no advice to add or story to share, sorry. I just wanted to give you an "atta girl" and wish your family success. Your most recent post sounds like a big change from the first ones. You sound more certain, more assertive, the doubt is getting smaller. I'm happy to see that change in your words.

Medusa-you are very brave and strong. You are doing the right thing by offering whatever help is available but remember he has to want the help. If the treatment centre can get him to accept he has a problem great-the rehab process will be much easier for him and he will get more out of it. If he does not accept the truth of his addiction-it will be uphill all the way. Whatever happens Medusa it is out of your hands now-you have done all you can. All you can do now is pray and be supportive. You sound like a great gal and I am proud to be here with you today. I am an addictions counselor but unfortunately all my education never prepared for me for the estrangement of my son 2 weeks ago. He is not involved in drugs or alcohol but he still has issues of a different kind. He blames me for this and I accept whatever part he thinks I should have been aware of but failed to be-as a mother I should have protected him but was not aware he neeeded protection. You do not know what you do not know. Now as a social worker and addictions counsellor I do know what to look for as signs of abuse-but it is too late. I must pay the price for my ignorance even in my 60's. My son is in his 40's. Take care all and god bless.

I agree with most everything written here. It sounds like the trouble has been brewing for years and addiction is only one problem he needs to deal with. The bullying he has done would worry me as much as the drugs, to be frank.

I am a bit concerned with your statement about the treatment centre not letting them sleep as discipline. If you mean they have to get up in the morning and are not allowed to sleep in, I think it makes sense but if they don't allow them to sleep at night as punishment then you are getting into an abusive situation, IMHO.

Medusa, I would be happy to share what I 'know' about how she did it in 30 days! I say 'know' only because quite honestly in AA the motto is 'what is said here, stays here' so alot of what she did I havent heard of!
The facility she went to adheres to the 12 step philosophy and truly encouraged the kids (10-18)to accept the fact that the tools could be provided, but only they could save themselves.
I know that the days consisted of meditation, step-work, groups where the kids help each other (that honestly seemed to be the most important part) and meetings. That every action has a consequence was pounded into their brains :)
Her sobriety date is March 18th, so we are coming up on 2 years! Honestly, from the time we found out she was using until I had her in a hospital was a total of 2 hours ( I am very anti drug-2 addict older brothers), but in therapy, we found out that she had started experimenting at 13, and was a full blown addict by 14 1/2. We had no clue because she was a 'functioning' addict, meaning she kept her grades up, wnet to school and held a job.
After she got out, I think the single most important thing she did was completely cut herself off from anyone who was using any type of drug (including alcohol. It was very hard, on the entire family actually, as these were kids that had all been close friends from the ages of 3-4 through 17.
Then she went to meetings. every day. On days when she felt especially tempted, she went to 2. She carried in her pocket a list of phone numbers of sober people who were willing to talk, 24 hours a day, about whatever she needed help with.
She started with NA, but moved over to AA as the program seems a bit stronger, and hoestly there are simply more people.
The final thing she did was share. When someone would ask for her story, she told it. She said that the only way she could stay sober was by 'giving back'
I know each day is a struggle for her. Initially, my husband and I also commited to no 'drugs' (we drink beer) for 3 months. She did say that not seeing anything at all in the house at the beginning was a great help.
Stick to your resolve, you ARE doing the right thing in getting him help.
I will admit to being a little concerned with the facilities tactics. Withhold cigarettes, no problem. Give them something other than favorite foods to eat. Effective, but by no means 'cruel'. The fact that they will prevent sleep is concerning. An unrested mind is not a healthy, properly working mind. To keep the commitment to change your life, I would think lack of sleep would be a deterrent.
Sorry this was so very long. If you want more info, is there a way to get my email to you?
Again, stand firm, you are saving a life, possibly more than one

When my son was a senior in high school, he started hanging with the wrong crowd and using drugs. We struggled to get him to graduate and he did make it. After that he went downhill and out of control. We had him emancipated because he spent much of the next 5 years in and out of jail for a variety of charges. He is a convicted felon. Fast forward to today. By the grace of God, he has worked for the same company for 5 years, has been promoted several times and makes a good living.I'm so glad he got his diploma when he did. He has a beautiful little girl whom he has sole custody of. Needless to say he no longer does drugs or gets in trouble. Personally I would prefer rehab in Mexico over jail in Mexico for my child. It's hard to make these decisions, you have to do what you think is right for his future because he is not thinking about it. Good Luck

good day all-just a short note to let you know i got all my nerve up and e-mailed my son-kept it brief and light-well til the end anyway. told him i was in a support group for this situation and gave him a link to a site i found for books on the subject of estrangement. I ended with telling him i did not want to lose him and to take care. I do not expect an answer but at least i reached out so feel good about that. Each day that passes is a bit easier but nights are the worst-especially when i go to bed. then my mind races and my heart trys to keep up-and collapses in sea of tears. the first night i get through with out breaking down i will truly know i am healing. take care and god bless.

Thank you to all who have posted to me and who have told me about their experiences, steph, mary, nanabb, aunty, mother....

I hope I will have a success story like yours too.

Today my nephew came over for a second, he is about the size of my son.

When he left he hugged me extra strong, and he felt so good, it made me think of my son.

My son never let me really hold him, ever since I remember. I always had to gingerly measure how often I could be physical with him, or expect of him back.

I know this might sound stupid, but I long for a heartfelt hug, a bear hug, one where I knew he snuggled with me and we exchanged affection.

When he left I had a lump in my throat, but I don't want to cry anymore.

In 3 days it will be a whole month already.

For me it has flown. The peace that I feel just from being able to sleep, and not be worried all of the time, is a miracle.

I remember the constant panic of his being with the people he knew in the drug world, and my heart races.

Thank God tomorrow is my Alanon meeting, I could use the physical company too.

This site has gotten me through 4 days!

Thank you all so much,

Liz Marie

OMG- Medusa-that is what i went through with my son -the hugging part-when he was 5 years old he said he did not want any more hugs-i said to him honey that is how i show you i love you-he said just pat me on my head-yes at the age of 5 it was already showing red flags. he had 3 younger brothers and i hugged all 4 of them daily. when i see someone else went had the same experience i do not feel so alone-wow-what an eye opener-thank you for sharing that

I can relate to the sleep part for sure. The times my son was in jail I always slept better. I knew where he was and knew he was alive. When he was out I was afraid of him and who he associated with. He was not the child we had raised, I didn't know this person anymore and didn't trust him. At some point he was not allowed at our house. From time to time I would meet him for lunch somewhere so I could see how he was doing. I never gave him money but if he needed food, I would buy it. We never bailed him out of jail. If he had something to sell like a car, we would sell it for him to get bail money. Otherwise he did his time. We always told him when he wanted to get his life together we would be there. Hard to look back on those times but so grateful that he came back from all of that. We could have lost him to that life. He can't believe he was that out of control. They don't have to be addicts to ruin their lives. It just takes doing some really stupid things while they are high or drunk. They don't think of the consequences. While drunk one time, my son got in a fight and broke a guys nose that sent him to the hospital. The guy filed charges and my son ended up spending 1 1/2 years in jail and is now considered a violent offender. If your son doesn't benefit from rehab, it's not because you did not try to help him. There is just so much that we can do for our children. They have to do the rest. Take care of yourself. I'm glad you found Alanon.

On my way to my group meeting, but Liz, real quick wanted to mention there are on-line alanon meetings for those times you need extra support! I will see if I can find the web site.
You are on the right track
I know you dont want to cry anymore, but tears are healing, the body the soul. If you dont let the old, the hurtful, the painful out my dear, where will the new the happy, the smiles have room to roost???
hUGS AND PRAYERS

Thank you ladies for the messages, it feels so encouraging to read these heartfelt comments, to read the personal experiences you willingly share, and to know that there are people out there generous enough to respond - who care!
It makes going to bed so much less agonizing. I find myself thinking about the things I have read, and imagining how much better off and/or worse off I am, and distracts me from feeling so alone.
Motherlode - my worst fear is that the way he was always limiting me so much with the physical affection, and so many other things...for example - he said I chewed loud (even with my mouth closed) and didn't want to eat at the same table with me. He would huff and puff if I tried to sing along to a song on the radio, and so many other things....are only the beginning. I fear that when he comes out he will hate me forever.
My God, nanabb, what you wrote gives me the chills. How horrible for you to have to make those heartbreaking decisions to just let him go.....I actually had to rub the goose bumps out of my arms just thinking about that possibility, and worse yet, in this godforsaken country. I know he has to do his part. It will be a month that he is in rehab on the 10th, on the 24th, I will get so watch a video of him with his first message to me. I am really nervous about it. Sometimes I think nobody could or would want to believe just how cold he could be. Yes, I am glad I found alanon too, although; don't underestimate the value of a support group on the net. One got me through a painful separation.
Auntie, what you wrote about making the room for the happy smiles, reminded me of a chapter in a book about a woman god helped clean her closet. She lashed at him that he left her with only half of her clothes, and he said to her, I have given you room to grow into the ones that will illustrate the woman you are to be!
From your lips to His ears!
The day I found this site, I tried to find alanon ones, I'll have to try again. I felt so at home here, I stopped looking - *chuckle*

i received the most heart warming e-mail from my oldest daughter today about the recent estrangement from my son. She was so loving and supportive it made me cry but smile while i was crying-she said i did the best i could and she does not know many people in her life-she is 30-who had an easy childhood. she said to give him his space and one day he would love me for me-unconditionally like she aready does. yes i am blessed as I have 4 more like her. Medusa I like the way you signed off above me-"chuckle" don't we all need more of those. I wish you all chuckles tonight.

Liz I thought of you tonight in Rehab. (yes DD went!!Score!)I sat watching a 17 yo cocky, self sure over confident little boy try to show how 'manly' he was with his posturing, eye rolling and refusal of his Moms hug. In the last 22 months, this scenario has played out over and over. Tonight, the counselor actually called the kid on it! I was in shock, she had not done that before. She asked him why he acted the way he did, what made him respond to his parents with the attitude, the defense, the refusals. Honestly, his answers in my brain were all 'blah blah blah' that is how ridiculous they were.
I payed very close attention because this was so very unusual for this woman who is very very good at what she does.
Then the counselor said 'let me tell you why you are doing it" She then proceeded to tell him, you take drugs to cover the pain, (BioDad abandoned him was abusive, mom remarried step tried to be a real dad) You are arrogant to cover the drug use and to prove you can 'handle' it and be a 'man'. You refuse loving contact because you are ashamed. Ashamed of the hurt, the lack of control, the lies and deceit'
Strange that she should say all this tonight, then I come back and reread your post. I think God has ears EVERYWHERE!
That he complained about the chewing and music is probably actually a result of the drugs. If he was speeding, everything is amplified, from what I understand. If that is the case, you were probably driving him nuts!!!lol
Do not worry about your video message. You can almost guarentee it will be angry, and hurtful. If they are truly 12 step, that is almost to be expected. and I personally would consider it a good sign.It means he is 'processing', learning what his trigger s are, and taking the steps to accept responsibility for his own drug use, and coming to terms with the fact that addiction is a DISEASE, like diabetes, and will be a life-long disease he will have to manage. It is alot for a young person to cope with.
here is the addy for alanon online http://www.ola-is.org/
Thoughts and prayers are with you
*chuckles* right back at you!

Al-Anon tells me to live one day at a time. This is that day.
"Just for today I will be unafraid.
Especially I will not be afraid to
enjoy what is beautiful and to believe
that as I give to the world, so the
world will give to me."
(from Al-Anon's "Just for Today")

I want to share an experience I had today with a lady I know casually. I was at a gathering today and at the intermission we went outside together. I asked her how many children she has-she hesitated and said hmmmm-4. She is the same age as me. I asked her are you close to all of them? Again she hesitated and said-not really. She said she had been verbally abused by her husband -their father-and they picked up on that and now they treat her with sarcasm and disrespect. I have read here and other forums that estrangement is more widespread than realized by society. I found it interesting to hear this from her. Unfortunately I must admit I was not honest with her when she asked me if I was close to all my children. I wish I was as open as her but just not quite ready. I told her I had a friend who was going through something similar to her situation. She probably saw through that excuse but did not pressure me-thank goodness. Here is where I can be myself without fear of judgement. One day I will share with her but not just yet. Thanks for listening.

I think it's very normal, motherlode, to not be able to share all of the personal details of our lives from the very first moments that we are not close to.

I found her comment about her husband being abusive to her and her kids picking up on it interesting. In a way I kind of had something similar happen in the relationship between my ex and and my son. My ex was always claiming that I was crazy and my son one night after being especially rude, got called for it by my ex, and my son answers my ex back - even you always say she is crazy!

So I look at him, and say - are you happy now? And my ex looks at me and says - don't pay attention to him he's an adolescent. So I asked him - and what was your excuse - you were too horney for the new woman that you lost one of your heads?

Kids do pick up on the cues given by a parent, and they do mimic like behavior.

I wouldn't worry so much about not having been able to share, I am sure that as soon as you feel comfortable with her you will. I also think we, as human beings, also tend to be more open when we are desperate. You just might not be that needy right now. In a way you have this forum, and you recently had a good letter from your daughter.

Today was my alanon meeting at my son's rehabilitation clinic. He has been there 1 month now. Today's theme was gratitude. I liked it. I also heard something that I learned from. Acceptence without gratitude is only resignation and resignation begets bitterness.

It's true. It's something I personally have worked on for a while now. How to genuinely be grateful, and one of the thiings that I learned along the way is that to truly understand gratefulness, one must also forgive wholeheartedly.

It's so hard. But once you have truly accepted a situation for what it is, and have made peace with it, once you have reviewed it and understood your contributions to the loss or breakdown of something important to you, then you can forgive - first yourself for you lack of knowledge of how to better handle things and second, the person who hurt you. Once that is done, it's much easier to accept the situation and be grateful for whatever is either left of it or comes from it.

That's a true test of character - because it's easy to be grateful with everything is so perfect.

motherlode - would you be willing to give me your date of birth, time, and place, as well as that of your son's?

I'm curious to see the composit and synastry chart your natal charts produce.

Lately I have gotten very interested in astrology and have really begun to see the relationships between what the aspects forcast, and how the parties carry them out.

And believe me you - there are aspects that foretell difficult parent children relationships. It makes you get goosebumps!

I hope you have a nice night,

Liz Marie

Hi Liz

no prob with info:
me-9/27/47-manitoba canada

son: 7/28/65-manitoba canada

Here is a bit of info: the lady i was talking to yesterday is the oldest of her birth family-i am the oldest in my birth family-my son is the oldest in the family. Coincidence i guess but still interesting. Liz have you started the 12 steps in al-anon yet? I too have attended al-anon-support group for family of alcoholics. I was pretty dilegent and did go through the 12 steps-took over 2 years and you are supposed to keep looking at them forever to make sure you do not have a slip-when i say you-i mean in general. i also went to rehab for co-dependancy issues-went for 28 days. it was an eye-opener. i think the e-mail from my daughter has done a world of good for me-have not been downhearted ever since. One day at a time i guess. thanks for being there-good nite

I'm new on this site also. I'll try and make this long story short (if possible!)....

I left my husband (emotionally abuse) for another man - great guy - 3 1/2 yrs ago. From that day on, my daughter does not want anything to do with me (16 at that time). She was SO verbally abusive (and also physical once). She would scream at me anything from wishing I was dead, would laugh at my funeral, to hoping I would be wrapped around a telephone pole....it was absolutely horrific. At first, I tried and tried talking to her, sending her ltrs that she'd never open, on and on but nothing worked. Then I let her be, as people would suggest to me. I know it has to be in HER mind to be willing to come back to me. I've waited and prayed. In her last years of high school, I stayed involved in her cheerleading, went to all parent meetings, fundraising, etc...., as if I'd never 'lost' her. I really felt as I had, but always had hope in the back of my mind. At times I would go up to her bedroom (she and my other son is living with my 'ex')....and just stand there and look around, the only way of me feeling close to her, I know from day 1 my ex was SO upset of me leaving, he opened up to her - telling her everything (about the other man), etc. Again she was only 16. It was hell for the first two years, although this past year has eased up some from my ex...) I gave her birthday gifts and x-mas gifts. Never a thank you, or a word, text, letter or anything for accepting them. Well this past x-mas was different - seemed as if a miracle happened. A week before x-mas (she's now 19 - going to college), she was home from college started 'talking' to me (well, she would answer me if I would ask her something, which she'd never done since this all began). She would never initiate the conversation, but that was okay! I thought WOW this is a positive step - huge step from what it's been! Christmas time, she opened my gifts right there, amongst my other sons (my oldest, 26, was in from out of state, both my boys talk to me and are respectful thank God) - which she never opened them in front of me before. She didn't have an attitude, rude look or comment. And she seemed NICE! I was elated inside, but scared. I would hear from people, "let her go - let her come to you", or "this is the time to try and talk to her - ask her for lunch to talk before she goes back to school".... Well, yesterday it was different. I was at the house and waited until she was by herself. She came downstairs and I thought, "this is it!"...So I went in and first asked her how she was feelin because she'd been sick. She ignored me. I asked her again in a different way. She ignored me again. I walked away. I didn't know what to do but made myself go back in and forced myself to ask her if she'd like to go to lunch or dinner sometime to talk, before she goes back to school. "NO". I said okay, and walked away. I should've stopped right then and there. I went BACK to her and offered her $20.00 (I had given her brother some money also, just to help them out in gas). She said she didn't want it. I just stood there and felt so....I don't know. Dumb for asking I guess. I don't know what couldn't happened between the niceness of her last week until now. I am so confused. I have that sick feeling back again like I did before. What did I do wrong? How how do you know what to do? She goes back to school in a week and I thought it seemed as though all her rage and anger is gone, which was so severe before. My family even saw how she seemed okay talking back to me, and happier. I guess she gave me what I need to know now - to leave her alone. But does she really want that? My heart is totally broken and feel so sad.

Dear everyone special

i also have a 20 year old daughter-when she was 10 her dad and i seperated and she stayed with him for a few months but he could not ake care of her so she came to me. she had attitude from that age until today. her dad and i reconciled and have been together now 9 years-when she would refuse to do chores or talk aback to me her dad would say to me-do not say anything to her. if i did finally have it out with her he would storm out the door and not return for hours. to make a long story short my daughter too was "nice to me at xmas" if she wants an appointment with a doctor she will call me and ask me to make it for her in a nice tone of voice otherwise it is icy looks and maybe a whispered response to a question but no real dialogue. she does talk nice to me on the phone-even says she loves me on the phone but in person it is a different story. i know what you mean you feel"dumb" i feel like a failure and very helpless. i have an older daughter that i am very close to and she trys to support me but she is close to her sister too and wants to keep that bond going. I have shed many tears over her. she is a good person-works full time and goes to school part time. has a very nice boyfriend and travels a lot. no drugs or alcohol. i have already lost one son to estrangement and very scared she will be next. Just know you are not alone and like me just hope one day she will be the loving daughter you have always dreamed of. take care and feel free to share at any time.

Dear Motherlode:

Thank you for your input....it's such a shame that these beautiful girls turn out to be like that are... if only they could always be beautiful on the inside as they are on the outside!

I saw my daughter for just a few minutes the other day...I went over to her and said hi to her(she was laying on the couch)....She didn't say anything, which is what I completed expected now. When I was leaving, I said bye to her, knowing that I won't get any 'goodbye' back. As I was going out the door, she spoke up, asking how her grandmother was doins (she had to go in the hospital a few days ago) - I asked shocked to hear her...again. I answered her - then she asked a couple more questions. I wanted to turn around me and say 'are you talking to me'???? I think this is going to be an up and down, back and forth sort of thing for a long while.....

I guess small, small steps - one day at a time!

Thanks again for writing!

when i read your words i swear you are in my house experiencing what i go through-it is almsot like mind games isn't it? and yet i am so desperate for any kind of communication with her I just lap it up like a thirsty dog and feel grateful for any crumb of recognition from her-how fricking pathetic does that sound? she is especially talkitive when she calls home and even says she loves me sometimes. go figure as the kids say now.

everyonespecial come check out this site for estrangement i joined-it is small right now but will grow very soon.

http://estrangedstories.ning.com

to all, I'm sorry that i haven't posted lately, I'm in a bad place lately. And today it got much worse.

I will try to catch up when I feel more positive.

Forgive me if I look like I'm not giving back what I have been given.

Liz Marie, :(

was very concerned when i did not see you here for so long but glad you are back -hope you will get a chance to check out http://estrangedstories.ning.com-it is pretty good and some of the ladies from here are there as well. hope you are feeling better soon-physically and emotionally. take care and god bless

Medusa-
I also wrote to you on the other post...but I have to tell you I went through this drug stuff with my youngest son and it was a nightmare. I still have "flashbacks" of finding him messed up one night-in fact the night before a "Mothers DAY." I was hard on him -I just had to be, it was his life I was trying to save...I didn't get the support at home I needed from his Dad, the police didn't help me in fact he ran away two days after I found him and the police wouldn't even help me. Gang members were chasing him and pulling guns on him - I felt like I lived in a terrorist zone. I finally had to get him away from the town we lived in. In fact he said he couldn't stay clean and live there. He went to live with relatives in a very small town and got straightened up But I have to be honest here, first he said to me on the phone that he knew I didn't love him...Here I was the one to go out in the middle of the night in the worst part of a town that is notorious for drugs and gangs and he said he "knows" I didn't love him. I went to him and had him to my face say He Thought I Didn't Love HIM! He couldn't do it-he knew- and he still knows- my children are all estranged from me - BUT I KNOW THEY KNOW IN THEIR HEARTS how very, very much I love them. They have to and I know your son knows it too.
Yes, I felt like a failure as a mom too. AND after all in some ways we all are-after all none of these kids came with a manual and living is making mistakes but trying is the key-we have all tried and just because we have problems does not mean we don't care and we don't try! WE do! We do a lot! But these kids we all gave our hearts to and our love also have the right to make their own decisions and some of those are wrong. We keep loving them -but we've got to know and believe because it's true - They make mistakes- some times really big ones like drugs they can take their precious life. So we have to be strong and whether they like it or not-force them to get the help they have to have in order to save them.
You have made some wonderful decisions about getting your son the help he has to have. Don't despair over that- be glad because without you and your insistence he get help he may not ever get away from that hell. You are still in my opinion going through a lot of shock- it hurts and it's hard to accept our children we sat up all night with when they were sick would ever harm themselves with drugs, because we tried so hard to keep them safe- but...now they make most of their own decisions and we have to just be there for them and you were and you are!!!! So-be secure in the fact you are there for him and your actions show your love for him.
You take care of yourself now too- You are special and we all care. Let us know now how you are doing...ok?
stray