Michael, I'll be watching to see how you do. In all my years of packing kraut, the only time I had a problem was year before last, when it molded. First time it ever happened and hopefully the last. I think it was just too hot.

I didn't even make any this year...

Annie

You know, come to think of it, I didn't make last year, either. It was two years ago that I lost my last batch. Wow, time flies.

But, you know what they say... When the weather turns colder, a Pensylvania German boy's heart turns to sauerkraut...

What Annie? Super woman did not make kraut this year? Thank God there are some good commercial brands out there. I love kraut!

I didn't make any this year either because I have a ton left from last year, jarred and frozen......think I need some sauerkraut recipe inspiration.

Oh boy, it is getting close to that time of year, isn't it? I'll have to start shredding soon, we're down to one jar. I've discovered that Sauerkraut production is a chancy biz here in the Central Valley (CA)as if the weather suddenly warms up for a week (which it can do without warning in October) one can end up with a bucket of sludge, but if the weather gets TOO cold, it can take weeks and weeks and weeks for the stuff to sour properly.

Ah well, cabbage is cheap, and if my last jar doesn't stretch far enough (even with rationing) there's always Klausen's from the grocery store. :)

Yeah, Michael, time does fly....in a lot of instances, not just kraut, LOL.

Teresa, I didn't make any because I still have about 25 quarts in the basement from the year before.

Annie

Okay, this question MUST be asked. My co-worker's mother makes sauerkraut using this recipe/method. Even tho she has made it this way for decades, I question the safety of doing it her way.

Here are the instructions she gave me.

Kraut

take Pint jars and stuff with shredded cabbage ( need to pack really good)
add 1/2 tsp salt to top of cabbage
pour boiling water over cabbage
Seal with lids place jars on news paper or old towels
leave for 2-3 weeks or until foaming

Now replace lids and do a 10 min water bath to seal.
My mom saves the old lids for the next time she makes kraut and uses them for the first part.

No way would I ever try that recipe, doucanoe.

So far so good. I removed the cover last night to check for scum, and there wasn't any.

It doesn't smell like much of anything yet, but I figure another couple of days and it will start smelling like kraut.

Michael,

I hope you get great kraut this time. Freshly made sauerkraut is good stuff.

I'm a little concerned about adding more than the traditional amount of salt. It's not the salt that preserves the kraut, it's the lactic acid formed by fermentation. Also, I have to wonder about the limestone. Wouldn't that tend to neutralize the acid?

Whaterver, I wish you success. Keep us posted.

Jim

Actually, Linda, that recipe is just fine, but with smaller jars you have a greater chance of the kraut spoiling instead of fermenting, for some reason. Sauerkraut is just salt and cabbage, after all.

I've seen "recipes" calling for more salt, but mine has 3 tablespoons of salt per 5 pounds of grated cabbage. It's what Grandpa always did, and it's what Michigan State University says to do, so I do it.

I don't think the limestone would have an appreciable effect on the fermentation because it's not submerged in the kraut or anything, it's just sitting on the plate to keep the kraut submerged in juice...

But, it will be interesting to see how Michael's kraut turns out. Mine is usually so salty I rinse it before I eat it, I wonder how the extra salt will affect the flavor.

Annie

Just had an odd thought...Sauerkraut (in my experience) can really be affected by temperature. Too cold, it doesn't ferment properly, too warm you might end up with moldy sludge.

Kim Chee however, seems to be quite a bit more relaxed, as it were, about temps. I wonder if the garlic/ginger/chilies somehow keep molds and bacteria at bay? I know garlic used to be used as a wash for wounds, to prevent infection and ginger also has antibacterial properties, and it seems that capsaicin has anti-microbial properties. Hmmmm.

Really, Annie? That's good to know.

I have learned so much from many of you on this forum over the years. I always worry about old "tried & true" canning recipes!

Linda

I've seen recipes that go up to 1/4 cup of salt per 5 pounds of cabbage.

The salt, early in the fermentation process, does preserve the cabbage by making the environment VERY inhospitable to bacteria that could cause spoilage.

It takes time for the bacteria form lactic acid.

As for the limestone, apparently that was the weight of choice for most German kraut makers once they got to the US. Supposedly the limestone, while it does neutralize a bit of the acid, releases lime into the mix, which helps with the overall fermentation process.

But, southern sauerkraut makers claim that limestone will cause the entire batch to spoil.

I wonder if that might have to do with the different winter temperatures North vs. South.

My Culinary Arts Institute (the cookbook I cut my teeth on as a kid, and one I will NEVER get rid of) also says to use limestone, as the lime will aid in lactic acid production.

CAI Sauerkraut

I guess I'll soon find out one way or the other...

"... it's what Michigan State University says to do..."

Will it work in Massachusetts?

Jim

Thanks for the citations re the salt and the limestone, Michael. Sounds like you are on solid ground.

Jim

Oh, missed this, Annie:

"I don't think the limestone would have an appreciable effect on the fermentation because it's not submerged in the kraut or anything, it's just sitting on the plate to keep the kraut submerged in juice..."

Actually, the plate is about 1.5 inchs under brine, and the limestone is in brine by that much.

And, you know, I just noticed something...

The CAI recipe for sauerkraut calls for 10 pounds of cabbage and 1/2 cup salt.

Half a cup is 4 tablespoons, so that equals out to 4 tablespoons of salt per 5 pounds of cabbage.

Only a tablespoons' worth of difference in the salt from Grandpa's recipe which is at least 100 years old, LOL, and it's worked all that time.

Temperature does have much to do with fermentation. Too hot and the kraut will spoil, it doesn't have a chance to ferment, too cold and it doesn't ferment at all, it just sits there. The warmer your storage temperature, the faster it ferments, until it gets to a temp where it spoils instead. This table is also from Michigan State University:

"Store at 70 to 75 degrees Fahrenheit while fermenting. At temperatures between 70 and 75 degrees Fahrenheit, kraut will be fully fermented in about 3 to 4 weeks; at 60 to 65 degrees Fahrenheit, fermentation may take 5 to 6 weeks. At temperatures lower than 60 degrees Fahrenheit kraut may not ferment. Above 75 degrees Fahrenheit, kraut may become soft. If you weigh the cabbage down with a brine-filled bag (6 tablespoons salt to 1 gallon of water), do not disturb the crock until normal fermentation is completed (when bubbling ceases). If you use jars as weight, you will have to check the kraut 2 to 3 times each week and remove scum if it forms. Fully fermented kraut may be kept tightly covered in the refrigerator for several months or it may be canned..."

Jim, I can't tell you what works in Massachusetts, all I can tell you is that Grandpa is from Canada and it worked there too. As long as the temperature is right, it should work, LOL, although I know everything is different everywhere else than it is in Michigan, apparently, as I've been reminded more than once. It seems that I live in a different and much less advanced universe than everyone else!

Actually, Michigan State has a very nice canning and preserving section to their website called "Preserving Food Safely". Maybe Massachusetts has a similar website through one of their university extension services?

Annie

In case anyone didn't get my little post, I was just kidding with Annie. She is a one woman Michigan PR agency. And rightly so. I can't argue with anything she says in praise of Michigan.

Jim

Jim, at least I knew you were kidding. (grin) Hey, I think Michigan is just south of heaven itself, but I'm biased. I was up north in Petosky last week, driving through the Tunnel of Trees and I gave a quiet thanks to the powers that be who saw fit to put me here instead of any number of other places. Heck, I could be in the middle of a desert or in Siberia or darned near anywhere! I know everywhere has their own charms and their own pitfalls, as Michigan does.

But I still think your kraut is OK, even if the recipe does come from Michigan State. Which was the very first agricultural college in the United States, incidentally, with Theodore Roosevelt as the keynote speaker for their 50th anniversary in 1907. It was also, incidentally, the year the first African American woman graduated from MSU and she received her diploma from the President.

Yeah, I had to get in a bit of Michigan trivia, LOL...

Annie

Salt decreases enzyme activity. Enzymes can cause softening in hot weather.

"Half a cup is 4 tablespoons, so that equals out to 4 tablespoons of salt per 5 pounds of cabbage."

My converter says a half cup is 8 tablespoons.

Jim

Jim , you're quite right about the 8 TBSP but I think Kframe just made a typing error.

In the sentence before he mentions using 10 pounds of cabbage and a 1/2 cup salt. He then goes on to say...."Half a cup is 4 tablespoons, so that equals out to 4 tablespoons of salt per 5 pounds of cabbage."

I think he meant to say 8 TBSP as his first measurement.

I agree, Chase, his math was right, but his typing was wrong, LOL.

I wonder how the sauerkraut is going....

Annie

I actually meant to arrive at the final conclusion that 4 tablespoons of salt is a half cup.

As for how the kraut is going...

To be honest, I'm not really sure. It's been a week today and I'm still not smelling any... sour smell.

I don't seem to be getting any scum on the surface of the kraut, and it is bubbling nicely still with no bad odors...

I'm going to pull the plate and rock today and wash and boil them.

Limestone, eh. Where do you get a chunk of limestone? This will be interesting. I'll be interested to see how it freezes also.

I just finished salting down 5 lb. of cabbage. I used 3 tbsp coarse kosher salt as per either Ball, I think.

I've made sauerkraut three times. The first was years ago an it was great. The second batch, also years ago, was nasty. Last year I tried again and got a blue at the fair (judges popped lid and snarfed half the jar). When I waterbathed it, I kept the canner barely simmering, and it came out really crisp.

Damn.

I've got a funny feeling I'm losing this batch of sauerkraut.

The liquid has a brownish cast to it. It's still fermenting, and it's starting to smell sourish, but I'm not 100% sure that it smells right...

I am going to be SO ticked if I lose this batch!

Kframe......back away from the guns.

Mine never has a definitive sour smell. It actually has hardly any smell at all. My liquid is always tinted but I wouldn't say brownish but definitely not clear or milky.

Hang in there.....and if it screws up I'll send you some of mine...I have tons left from last year.

I'm hoping that it's the limestone that's making it tint a little brown.

I have to skim it this even and change the plate.

I'll be able to figure out what's going on then, hopefully.

Relax, Michael, mine often turns kind of "tan" and sometimes I have a very noticeable smell, sometimes none at all.

I can only tell how it's doing by tasting it...

Annie

OK, I was freaking over nothing.

I just finished skimming it, changed the plate, and cleaned and boiled the rock.

With the rock out, the liquid looks yellowish, and every successful batch I've ever made has had a yellow cast to it.

Looks like of like... well... pee.

Sorry, but that's what it reminds me of. It's amazing that our ancestors ever thought to eat it. :-)

Anyway, I think I'm on a good course here.

I wrapped the plate in a towel this time, if for no other reason to make it easier to get the plate back out next time.

Hey, Kframe,
How is your kraut doing?

Well, it seems to be doing OK.

I took the rock out because the kraut was no longer lifting up and I didn't need it any more.

I had a considerable bloom of mold on it last time around, but it came off really easily.

Its starting to get that sauerkraut taste, but it's going to be awhile.

I started a small batch of kimchee two days ago. I'm looking forward to tasting it ing it later this week. Haven't made any for a long time.

Jim

Michael, I was just wondering how your kraut was going, I'm glad it was a "false alarm" on the spoilage!

Annie

I read through the whole sauerkraut saga, and found no mention of the quality of the cabbage you are using. Could it be that the results depend not just on freshness, but on how it was grown? Those old tried-and-tested recipes from your grandma were used with vegetables which had never seen artificial fertilizer, nor whatever they spray on them nowadays.
I have been lucky to use homegrown organic cabbages, and my sauerkraut has always worked fine. I don't even scald or sterilize the equipment nor the limestone I used. Once done, it keeps in the fridge, provided it is kept under the liquid. Canning, freezing or heating gets rid of some of the goodness, and it does not seem to be necessary at all.
Good luck! Love, Annemieke.

Here is a link that might be useful: Thought for Food

I'm going to pop the lid again today and skim it. We'll see how it's going.

I did have an issue the other week which has me flummoxed... The fermentation stopped early. It just up and quit. The lactic acid production was still not up to the level of sauerkraut...

So, I got another head of cabbage, shredded it, and mixed it in well to see if it would jump start the fermentation.

It seems to have.