And when you order and the cabinet doors are nicked and her daughter is in a skating competition....what will you do?

I'd order elsewhere from a professional. Someone's personal life shouldn't interfear so much with their work (which is why I don't work anymore). Does she want to be a skating coach or a KD???? Do you want to order cabinets from a coach or a KD????

This really depends on what kind of relationship you have without the skating competition. During our kitchen remodel and new garage we had one sub who had to go to an out-of-state wedding, another quit because rain caused his schedule to get backed up and we were the small job he was doing on weekends. Did I mention hunting season? My husband is a former GC now working as a Master Electrician part-time. His former boss plays golf too much of the time as far as my husband was concerned. Depending on your job schedule she may not have to rush to put in your cabinet order so she may feel like she has time for family. You may be ready to go but maybe it's a little early according to her time line. Talk to her about this. It could be time to part ... but does that mean you also lose a great GC? You've already come this far, there's not a lot left for the KD to do. Keep in mind I ran to my KD several times to finalize the counter top choice and I liked having mine or one of her staff available within 24 hours.
But having spent a lifetime married to this business, I thinnk my husband figured taking a 2 week vacation during the middle of the job (at a point where it could run without him for that time) didn't upset a customer nearly as much as showing up at the job site driving a brand new truck.

That is so funny about the truck -- When I hired my GC (who I loved) to do our kitchen/mudroom addition years ago he had this beat up old truck.

When he came back a year or so later to do a bathroom and laundry room remodel he had this bright shiny new truck that I teased him about me buying for him -- he actually looked a little uncomfortable about it, but I was kidding him.

We have an okay relationship, we don't know each other that well. It's the lack of any communication that really bugs me. I'm not thrilled that she's putting me off AGAIN and for a whole week (previously it's been for 3-4 days over a weekend) but I called her 6 days ago and she didn't return the phone call. Nor did she email me -she has my email address and I said she could email me. If someone who was planning to pay me several thousand dollars called and wanted something I'd at least take a minute or two to send an email.

$500 isn't that much to lose when you consider the total cost of the reno and your peace of mind knowing that you have someone who is responsive. That said, it's worth having a conversation with her about your very legitimate concerns. You'll be able to tell from the conversation if it's worth continuing with the KD.

Well, you know what they say, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."

Our original GC is backed up till the second coming (probably all my recommendations- he was wonderful!!) and was very honest about it when I asked him the chances to slip in a 'little' bathroom remodel.

In October, I contacted another, very reputable GC about the job. It requires tearing out tile and backer board, some plumbing and re-tiling, and replacing the bathtub.
Some minor demo was required to assess the extend of the (water) damage from a leak.

So far, I have received a bill for the demo that left pipes exposed in the garage (it doesn't get to freezing often here, but hey!) but no bid! We're going on 5 months!

This GC has let me know how important my job is to him.

I'm looking elsewhere.

The way I look at it is that BEFORE the order, your relationship is like dating. You're putting on your best face and trying to impress each other. Once the order is put in, and the $$$$ check has been written and cashed, you move into the marriage phase. This is the point where you relax because the deal is sealed.

So, if she acts like this while you're still dating so to speak, how will she be once she no longer has any incentive to impress you?

$500 isn't that much to lose when you consider the total cost of the reno and your peace of mind

Yup, that about sums it up.

Second all those who recommend parting; esp. lowspark's comment about the relationship being like dating...

this woman is not taking her job and your job seriously enough and that will NOT change

take your design elsewhere for cabinets

use this wonderful forum to find a reputable cabinetmaker and get your job going; the way you want to on your schedule, not hers

Amen, this is very unprofessional. My daughter is a national competitor in her sport, and I am a freelance editor. I take my laptop and cell phone and do work on the road. My DH also might take her if I am swamped. Your KD is giving you stupid excuses. Trust me, there is a lot of downtime in competitions. I am sure skating is no different. Have you thought about calling her boss? Maybe there is another KD who doesn't have such a busy personal life? Not to get her in trouble (not your problem), just to get you someone who can move this along and be there for you if there are problems down the road w/o losing your $$$$.

I would tend to agree with the others.

We have just recently signed on with a KD. Before we signed the papers, he pointed out that he and the company were going to be involved in the home and garden show coming up this weekend. He was responsible for setting up and being there. He simply said he would be essentially out of touch this week but would be back with us early next week. You know what? He has been by here two evenings so far this week just to drop off samples for us. He's touched base with us, just so we wouldn't feel like he fell off the face of the earth. I really appreciate that!

If this personal situation that your KD is having is very, very temporary, perhaps I could let it slide. If it is ongoing, I would find it totally and completely unacceptable to have my KD unavailable for large chunks of time during the process. Gosh, no project goes off completely without a hitch. Does that mean if something happens during the project, everything would have to come to a grinding halt until it is convenient for her to respond?

It may be time to consider that in the grand scheme of a kitchen remodel, $500 is not a huge amount. Maybe it's time to cut your losses and move on.

I truly sympathize with Zobeet's frustration. I had such a bad experience with my KD that even now, several months post kitchen remodel, I am still unnerved by her lack of professionalism. I do not know what it is about the KD profession that attracts so many untrustworthy and unprofessional dilettantes. My KD was totally unresponsive from the onset, which I attributed to her artistic spirit. Despite my inner instincts, I proceeded to place the order with her, which turned out a total nightmare with her mishandling and mismeasuring my kitchen cabinet order. The cabinets turned out to be subpar, the kitchen design is totally flawed, and the whole experience had cost me so much aggravation that I had vowed never to go through this nighmare again.

Trust your instincts and fire your KD.

I'm going to take a slightly different tack on this. Other than the lack of availability are there any other red flags? Have you actually seen kitchens that she has designed? Is she dealing with this cabinet company? Have you seen the cabinets?

What are the reasons you have been dealing with her? Have any of those things changed?

Have you asked her how much longer competition season is? Maybe there are only one or two more meets left, and then this won't be an issue anymore.

I would ask her outright, if there is any chance she would be as unavailable when the cabinets come and if there are issues. Be straightforward with your concerns. Did she know that you were planning on finalizing this week? Perhaps ask her if there are any more blackout dates that you should be aware of?

It seems like if she had a more professional way of explaining her time challenges, it wouldn't be so bad? You said she did good work/several plans for you that you were evidently happy with. I think that pros sometimes look at a few days in a different way an eager homeowner does. There are other clients, other aspects of life, and things take time...Nothing happens overnight. People just don't seem to react in an instantaneous manner in this arena...Sometimes it's just not possible. Waiting and delays are quite normal. Aggravating? It certainly can be, but a few days in the scheme of the project isn't that big, and often for us, when something has been delayed, it's given us a chance to see or accomplish something else. I have learned to take deep breaths and be surprised by nothing...A chance to learn patience! (I admit to being a poor student in that area, but building definitely taught me the most.)

All that said, I think an open conversation about it would help.

Waiting and delays are quite normal.

I couldn't agree more! My philosophy when remodeling, or for that matter, when having any kind of work done, is "I'm not in a hurry. Please take your time and do it right."

However, it seems to me that this isn't just a case of zobeet being in an unreasonable hurry. It's more of a case of the KD making inappropriate excuses and creating unnecessary delays due to her personal life. Is this a part time job for this KD?

Yes, waiting and delays are quite normal, but delays caused by skating competitions are not.

"Told her we'd like to finalize cabinet selections so we can get a price and so we can order cabs and get moving."

Most salespeople would JUMP at this. Closing a deal should be a very high priority. Everyone has other things in their life, but this KD just doesn't seem to be taking her job seriously. Unless, you've got a compelling reason for staying with her, I'd seriously consider taking the design and going elsewhere. What happens when there are problems with your cabinets and she's off for weeks for another skating competition?!?

Wow. This really hits home for me. I paid my designer $1,500 (or $1,800 I don't remember it's been so long now.) over a year ago. I had hoped to be started in a few months. When we meet it's great and we accomplish a lot, but then 3-4 weeks go by in between meetings. I've been okay with it until recently, but I thought it was finally our turn to be a priority and it seemed like we were finally going to get somewhere. We were talking to GC's and an engineer was supposed to come over. Then here we go again...a month later and nothing. Not even a phone call from her. I'm really close to firing her despite the $1,500. So for your $500 I would seriously consider walking away now if I were you. I ignored the warning signs. How much more will you be paying her in total?

Walk. It's not going to get any better. $500 is small potatoes in the grand scheme of things.

I just think everyone has a right to a life. Our HVAC guy goes hunting and had a vacation in Hawaii scheduled with his wife, right when we finally got power and were hoping for heat. Our flooring guy asked to be excused for not coming back on a Saturday while our pro team was in a playoff game, but he had another job scheduled out of town before he could come back. The difference is the latter came back at his earliest gap in his schedule, while we're still waiting for the former to finish, although we do have heat. But, people (pros included) have families and priorities...Why can't the KD attend her daughter's skating without taking her work along? Not exactly respectful and attentive to the daughter to be doing business, and maybe not to others with them. I think she'd need files, etc. Maybe she could do it in off moments, and maybe she could do it at night, but why is she 'required,' just because someone decided they want to order "Now!" This is an important order, and I'd want it accurate more than I'd want it done on the fly.

Zobeet called her Thursday before the long weekend, the day her KD was probably packing, washing, and dealing with the many other issues that have to be addressed before being gone all week....Then she rushed out the door for the week. Do we know she didn't have this scheduled at work as a vacation week? If she's independent from a 'work', is she not entitled to time away? Zobeet says this isn't the first time, but not whether it was the 2nd or the 8th. That would make a difference.

These people have a right to have families and other activities past waiting by the phone in case a customer decides it's time to get moving. It doesn't sound like she had a prior warning or expectation of receiving the call at that particular time. That, again, would make a difference in my opinion, even though customers probably often say they'll call, then delay...and the pro can't put life on hold to wait.

The KD was paid $500 for what sounds like a substantial and acceptable amount and quality of work. I don't understand why some time out for her daughter and a wait of a few days is so bad. Every customer/homeowner is excited and wants things to happen now -- or yesterday ;-) --But that's just not reasonable on the business person's end. I'm not really on a soapbox about this, just trying to explain my view, and possibly the view of people who do work for us all. JMHO, though.

I'm with rhome410 on this, that I wouldn't be concerned with a few days delay. Although, I am a very patient person and am not married to my work, so I may be a bit biased and can relate to your KD somewhat. It's so hard to find a good KD and if she is good, I wouldn't be worried about a few days delay for personal reasons. I sometimes ever prefer a delay here or there to confirm my selections on things and it also gives me some leverage if I need to delay things on my end for some reason. Those people tend to be a bit more flexible.

However, you are the one who has to work with her, so if this is annoying you, then it might be best to part ways with her.

Well FWIW, the skating competition is about an hour's drive away, and I spoke to the KD at her home yesterday, so I know she's not living in a hotel this week. She's affiliated with a design store that sells WoodMode/Brookhaven, but isn't employed by them AFAICT. I called her, not the shop to set up an initial appointment, she works out of her home, and the shop sells a line of cabs that she does not.

I think the advice to express my concerns, especially about her availability once cabinets are delivered, is excellent. I'll pay close attention to what she does and does NOT say.

Ok, I can see the point about personal time/vacation time, surely everyone does have a right to that. So I went back to read the original post and here's what stood out for me.

I called her last Thursday (today being Wednesday after a long weekend)....No reply.

This isn't the first time she's not called me back or told me she can't do something for days and days

I think zobeet is taking the right tack, talk to her, ask why she's not returning phone calls, what kind of delays to expect in the future, and what her proceedure is to handle any problems that may occur along the way, especially once the cabs arrive. I don't think there's anything wrong with saying that you are concerned about her being unavailable for several days in a row (no matter what that unavailability is due to).

Best advice now is to go with your gut feeling.

simply say to her if she cannot order the products for your then direct me to someone at the store she works with who can. I'll bet you the thought of losing the commission to someone else might motivate her.

Else simply tell her that you've been very patient with her up to now but you don't want to be delayed. You are the customer. You are paying her. Stop feeling like you are the bad guy.

Okay, I hope this doesn't sound too terrible. But when you talk to her I would just chat with her for a while, ask how her daughter did in the skating competition, how long she's been skating, etc.---in other words, show some interest in her life. I'd probably ask her how she likes having her daughter in skating, ask whether it's pretty demanding on her, and so on. In this context, I would ask her how many competitions her daughter enters, whether they're generally out-of-town, (asked sympathetically) how she keeps up with it all.

I'm sure you see where I'm going. I would find out as much as I could in a casual, friendly manner. Maybe disarm her somewhat in order to get a true picture of the family demands she has.

I think if you ask her directly how dedicated she will be to your project, she will say 100%---and probably mean that. But her 100% and your 100% might not be the same. By approaching the subject in a pleasant way, not associated with your project, you'll have a better idea, based on her replies, whether her schedule is likely to mesh with hers.

Now, I want to qualify this by stating that I agree with all the comments that the KD has a right to her own life, that it's wonderful that she is spending time with her daughter and supporting something she presumably loves to do. In fact, years ago when I worked outside the home (I'm now self-employed), I once told a potential employer, "If my kids are out of school, I won't be here. If my kids are sick, I won't be here. If they have a field trip, I probably won't be here---I'll be with them. But when I'm here I will give 110%." I got the job, and we had a great working relationship---but I felt an obligation to be upfront about my priorities (my family first, work second). Since I left the job, he has called back frequently asking if I'd be interested in coming back. Today I work out of my home and I tell all clients that, due to the demands on my time in taking care of my disabled child, I may not be able to get back to them the same day they call or email; but I WILL get back to them within 24 hours at the greatest.

So the point is there are many excellent, dedicated workers who just happen to have a life outside the job. I personally think that's a good thing and that family priorities should come first. I'm not sensing that you disagree with that. It sounds to me like you're just wondering whether she will be able to manage your project and move it along in the timeframe you have in mind. That's a reasonable concern. I think by talking to her about her family in a friendly way you'll get a sense of whether she will have the time to devote to your project. Then, once you've obtained some information about her likely schedule through tactful questioning, if you still have concerns, then you can broach the subject with her. For all we know this is the only major skating competition her daughter goes to for the year.

Just an idea ...

As someone who has turned a few business relationships into good friendships IÂm baffled by some of the responses here. The goal is to have the KD do the job for which she was paid. So make a phone call and have her commit to providing her service. Get some timelines and sure times of availability.

As far as her personal life is concerned, itÂs none of anyoneÂs business, particularly her customerÂs. As a professional I donÂt tell my patients whatÂs going on in my life but if something comes up I let them know IÂm not available. That simple. TheyÂre not my friends theyÂre my "customers" and itÂs my obligation to provide the best service possible and behave as a professional. They are not responsible for being sympathetic or understanding of how I maintain my personal life. IÂm responsible for that. Accordingly, I plan ahead when I attend things for my children, go on vacations, surprise my wife with a weekend away; whatever.

Lest you think I'm a distant cold-hearted ogre, the fact is I'm a warm empathic guy who puts great value in getting to know my patients. I'm there to accommodate them, not the other way around.

In short, if a professional wants to maintain a balance in their personal life they cannot do it by creating an imbalance in the lives of their customers.

Craig,

I respect your viewpoint and feel you make some valid points. I did hesitate to post the suggestion about trying to find out a little more about her time commitments to family activities for many of the reasons you stated. On the other hand, I've read so many accounts of people who go into their renovation with certain expectations only to be let down badly. I like to believe that people will be honest with me, but what about the experiences I've read here about the KD or GC who promises all kinds of things but then doesn't delivered as promised?

If I were investing in this KD, I would want to know I could rely on her being there. Since she volunteered the infomation that she was taking her daughter to a skating competition, I wouldn't think that subject would be off-limits. I certainly wouldn't be asking what school her children go to, what her husband does for a living, etc. But I would be interested in having an idea of the level of commitment and amount of time she would likely be investing in the skating to see if it would allow with what I would feel would be a reasonable amount of time to my project.

And, no, I don't think you are distant or cold-hearted. It sounds like you have a clear idea of the boundaries that must be maintained between you and your patients.

my husband and I have our own business in the construction industry and i'm reading thru these posts with some puzzlements on people's expectations....

we have 3 children who at this point are in college or have graduated; we have run our business out of our home since 1995 so for the most part our kids were in elem, ms and hs at the start of starting this company

all of our children were very involved in sports and in turn so were we; we were their biggest fans attending most functions and with 3 active sports players life can and is crazy

on top of that, my DH coached, I was involved with the PTA and the local home association, as well as "team mother"

i do not relate this for kudos, only to make my point which is:

we have never turned down a project for any of our clients and everyone was completed on time(some of what we do is preparing cost estimates for GC's bidding on public(municipal, schools, etc.) work requiring the job to be completed before the bid time and to the contractor). It may have meant that we worked longer hours, on the weekend, etc. to get the job completed on time, but we did it along with doing all of the kid related stuff.

When you have your own business and it is your only income, you perform or you are out of business.

Maybe this job is not a prime source on income and the KD treats it so, putting her child first, idk, but it seems to me that it is not her priority to make her customers/clients a priority in the scheme of things.

Life can be hectic with kids and business, especially if you are an involved parent but planning in advance allows one for the most part to be able to do it(barring illness, emergencies and the such which no one can plan for)

This wasn't a case of a sick child, it was a scheduled skating event that didn't just pop up.

Sorry, but this KD's priorities are not in a place that I would want to continue to work with her if I wanted the schedule to be more of mine than hers.

Maybe our philosophy as a service provider is different than others, idk, our clients needs are pretty darn important

And as an aside; they keep talking about the economy tanking, wouldn't you really be trying to keep your customers happy at this time?

IMHO

Thank you all for the input on my KD issue. What I'm wondering now, is how much will I need her during the remodel? She's provided us with some design layouts, and clearly I need the latest one before cabinets can be ordered. Once they're ordered she should be available in case there are issues with the cabs.

She is planning to take me appliance shopping, and to her preferred granite yard I believe. Clearly her availability is an issue for cabinet delivery and scheduling shopping trips.

What else might I be concerned with?

kas81057 hit the nail on the head. All of us who are self employed and provide a service should function that way. We "eat what we kill" and it's up to us to be sure there's food on the table plus money to send our kids to college, pay for vacations; whatever.

zobeet, if your KD is a true professional she should have answered the questions you're asking here. It's her job to explain the steps ahead of time and then guide you as you move forward. If anything unexpected comes up it's her job to forewarn you and navigate the problem. You've never done this before; she has.

sail-away, you're right about getting to know who you may be working with. Just as the service provider is "qualifying" you as a customer, you must do the same with them. Get as much info about the provider as you can both professionally and personally. The KD providing info was not off limits. Rather it's an invalid excuse for not doing her job.

Zobeet;
Since I did not use a KD I am not really 100% sure how far they go with the project, that said, I can tell you some of the things that we encountered problems with or you may:

Issues with measurements being improper (read some of Buehl's threads for the nightmare she is living)

You won't really know until your cabs arrive and they are being installed if there are issues but if there are then starts the downward spiral of all the things that can/may be affected, fit of a "run" of cabs, appliance fit, elect & plumbing requiring moving due to improper measurements....the list goes on.

There is also the issue of your cabs not coming complete or warped(in my case), missing moldings, shelves, etc.

I guess following my own thread, i would be concerned of her follow-thru in any related "issues" with the cabs.

Like i said i don't have a KD and at this time it is almost two months since I was supposed to recieve all of the replacement, missing items from my kitchen/dr renovation. I am not happy about it and I am the only one to take on the cabinet guy since I did my own GC'ing.

I figure if you use a KD that is her role in the manner you seem to be using her; ordering your cabs, assisting in selecting appliances, selecting granite, etc. so I would guess that she would be the one handling the issues that I mention.

Something to consider, but I am sure there are many out there that have gone thru their projects with a KD and know better what to expect.

Good luck to you in however you decide to move forward!!!!