Well here in Central Al I paid a flat hourly rate for all my remodeling. It was cost plus for the materials. So I will tell you what I paid and that can help you put it in perspective. My GC was $35 per hour. His helpers were 20-25 per hr depending on experience. Materials were a 20% mark up over cost. I saw every receipt and double checked everything as he did it. I paid only after everything was done every 2 weeks. I think that your estimate sounds good especially for where you are. I hope this helps. I am sorry for all you have had to go through. Caroline

On its own, it sounds ok if you're including materials in that quote.

One way to think about, for a small project like this - how much time will it take. If it taks 2 guys 1 day (so 16 labor hours) to do it, that works out to $81/hr. You to pay the materials cost too, so figure $70/hr in labor. What's the going hourly rate where you are?

The nail rail will be an horizontally mounted 2x4 or 2x6 mounted inside the new wall extension to give them a place to screw the wall cabinets into. That way they don't have to go looking for studs or use other anchors.

We have one in our master bathroom inside the wall where the shower door is mounted for that same reason.

Tell the KD/EXPO to forget the markup for all the grief they've ALREADY caused you by their incompentence.

Yes, that estimate includes labor & materials.

My KD already specified that this would NOT go through EXPO so we wouldn't have to pay the markup...so I guess she's willing to help us a little there...

Thanks for the comments that the estimate sounds OK...I feel a little bit better!

Seems reasonable to me for time and materials. And I agree - EXPO best not charge a markup on this given your hassles with them

Sound entirely too cheap for what is actually involved. Exterior walls are usually load bearing unless they are gable end walls. a 180" wall could be a gable end wall, but I'd triple check everything. Even if it is a gable end wall, to knock it down, reframe it, redo all of the electric running through it, the siding on the exterior, the drywall on the interior, the windows that are in it, the roofing and gutters, is a LOT of work. WAY MORE than $1300 worth. Either these people don't have a clue as to what they're doing, or that's just the materials cost. And, I'd expect even a simple materials cost to be about double that. If it's a load bearing wall, I'd expect the beam to carry the weight to be about double the cost quoted alone.

I'm with LWO on this one...Sounds too cheap. Moving a wall 6 inches is not 'simple', especially exterior. I would expect that cost if dh was doing something like that...and since his estimates are always off, I'd have to double it, but that's a whole other, personal problem. ;-D

Oh, Live_Wire_Oak & Rhome...this is not an external bump out. What they want to do is take our inside kitchen wall and bring it forward 6". The net effect would be that our kitchen would be 6" narrower than it is now.

They need that extra 6" of "play" room to finagle the ducting of our vent hood...we have to go around a waste pipe that sticks out 6" from the wall as well as convert from an 8" round duct to a 6" x 8-1/2" rectangular duct to fit in the ceiling (the ceiling bays are 7-1/4" deep x 14" wide). There has to be 12" b/w the bend around the waste pipe and the converter.

If were to just go with a recirculating hood we wouldn't have to do this.

The only real issue, space-wise, is that we will have a narrower aisle b/w the refrigerator and peninsula end than I'd like. Yes, the refrigerator & freezer will open but it's still a little narrow...34" counting the refrigerator handles & the counter overhang. There's plenty of room everywhere else. (7' b/w the two cabinet runs...down to 6'6" with the bump out)

Maybe I used the wrong term...sorry about that! If you're interested, there are more details in the beginning post of my "Kitchen Saga" thread.

Thanks!

I can see the confusion that is causing others like Live Wire Oak to say that this is too cheap. To re-clarify the issue. This is bumping out an interior, load bearning wall, that is in the middle of the house an extra 6" so that an existing waste line that is run around ceiling height will be inside the "wall" eliminating the need to make a soffit or cut out the back of a cabinet for the waste pipe.

On that note the $1300 is alot of money. I have been following you many posts about the issues you have encountered. I know you don't totaly trust the GC anyway. First off the nail rail is for his benefit since he will save in labor time/expense in hanging the cabinets. So if he wants to put that into this new wall then that should be on his dime not yours.

As far as cost, I know I am typically a DIY so I am speaking on those terms.

For a 180" wall you are talking 12 studs based on 16" OC. You then would have a top and bottom plate as well. There may be a few more studs to connect sheetrock to the old wall. Since you mentioned that you wanted to put a niche behind the stove area, you need to frame out the niche area but then you will be taking away some of the vertical studs to put horizontal studs anyway. So I figure you are looking at like $100.00 in lumber and you then need less than $100.00 in sheetrock to cover that new wall and tie into the old. There is other stuff like corner bead and tape and joint compound. Obviously there is labor but if he is a good GC then maybe 2hrs to frame this wall out and another hr to hang the sheetrock. There will be time required for taping and spackling 3 coats. We are only talking about 15' of wall here with a few joints to tape. Especialy if the GC buys 4'x16' wallboard there will be only one seam to tape. So less time and cost.
Seems like this guy is trying to recoup $$$ or something since the job has been prety much on a standstill until the venting issue gets resolved.

I probably should add this to the other thread but since I am here :). How about going back to a previous thought and run the venting now through the MB closet. I think initially the back of the closet was like 14" from the current wall towards the window wall/ Is that right? Buolding this wass will eat up 6" you say. Once you transition the round to rectangular, you should be able to get 45 degree fittings. The restriction is not equal to 1/2 that of a 90 degree it is less. So you should be able to use a 45 and then run a piece of rectangular duct up to get to the back of the closet, maybe to the point inside of this back wall and then use another 45 to straighten the pipe out and then run up and through the closet ceiling into the attic. You then would loose like 4" of depth in the closet. You may loose a little bit of space as well in the bottom of the closet, from where it comes up from the kichen ceiling/closet floor until it hits the back wall and the second 45 elbow. This should be minimal and could probably be boxed out. I am not an HVAC guy but from what I have seen. I think you can use 3.25 x 14" rectangular duct to equal the static pressure for an 8" round pipe. This would allow you to put the while duct in the closet wall. I would think you could use oval as well.

I have this situation in my master bedroom closet. I had an oval HVAC pipe runing off the back wall. When I re-did the bedroom, I used 45 degree oval fittings to get it into the wall from the ceiling and then did the same thing on the floor into the ceiling register in the room below.

You may need to move electric out to the new wall, so check if that's included.

Make sure the nail rail and niche framing are specifically mentioned in the final quote.

Buehl,

The only advice I can offer (being DIY I just look at the cost of materials, so have no clue as to labour costs), is that no go ahead be given on a verbal estimate only. I would ask that exact MEASUREMENTS be written out, all outlets, electrical, vents,etc. be labelled, and find out ahead of time EXACTLY what the niche is going to cost. Don't accept the extra 6" of wall thinking you will gain a niche if that isn't included in the quote.

Hang in there girl- (oh and bring baked goods to the meeting on Friday- even if you have to buy them-) get lots of rest Thursday night, be sure to get some exercise tomorrow- take some deep breaths, and know this will get resolved.

Sending good vibes down your way...

Thanks all! Yes, Todds is right, it's making the wall deeper so to speak...although the 6" extension will not be load-bearing like the original wall. The original wall will stay as-is.

So....then some of you think the $1,300 might be too much as well? If electrical and the niche are included in that estimate, would that be more reasonable?

You're right...no "go ahead" until I see exactly what's included in that estimate--in writing!!!! I will also tell them that Friday if I cannot get a hold of my KD tomorrow (she has class and off-site meetings w/other clients all day tomorrow).

Todds...I answered you on the other thread! Bottom line is that my DH didn't take into account the approx 3' our MBR overhangs the first floor, so the vent would actually go up the middle of the closet and paritally block the 2' door (4' wide closet).

Buehl,

I, too, have been following your saga and am sorry you are having to go through all this. I sincerely hope you are able to get all this worked out to YOUR satisfaction. I think your attitude through all of this has been wonderful.

Since you brought it up though, I wanted to say that if it were me, I would already have bought that recirculating hood! Venting is just one of those things that, for me, can be compromised.

Best wishes to you!

We have plenty of joint compound and tape if you need it but you know it sounds crazy to do all that to make this work. I can understand not knowing what is under the soffit but that is because we are DIY and start not having a clue what we are doing and learning as we go (big learning curve). But, when you hire a GC, I assume they have the knowledge and expertise to know based on your house or common sense is to knock a hole in it since it will be removed anyway and see what is there as worst case, you patch it back up. And, by looking at your blue prints/floor plan if you have it (your house doesn't see more than 20-25 years old). They are trying to find ways out of their screw ups... I still vote send it all back and start over.

If your plumbing is still there, you can set up a cheap laundry tub (Ace Hardware has them with instore pick up for $25 - I got one last week for our basement to replace our concrete double - we had lots of fun with redoing the copper pipes last weekend) and a cheap pull-out faucet for $40 at home depot (plus a few other supplies) - had I known I would have set it up when we were remodeling but live and learn. A good DIY book can tell you how to or we can talk you through it (my husband has done all three of our sinks). Then you can get a cheap countertop or table at Ikea and do a makeshift until you can come up with a good plan.

Don't settle because they screwed up and their adjustments are causing you money and major reconstruction.

The electrical wiring and plumbing is an issue if you are moving all that... that stuff is really $$$ - we got a huge estimate to do our kitchen electric which is why we did it DIY (my husband was scared to put in a new range wire/outlet but did great). We went to Lowes for our laundry tub over the weekend and had 1/2 the plumbing supplies in our basement and we still spent $100 on supplies between the copper, hoses, new shut off valves, etc.