I should've also noted:
* If you have "burgundies" like Diva #C2-022, or Vixen #C2-024, those primers are DARKER than the topcoats I think!!
(BTW...some of these color-names are s little "provocative" in a way?!)
* Some primers aren't what you'd think for the topcoat...Persimmon (think Tabasco sauce) C2-2218 has a Salmon-color primer. Some gold/yellows have a green primer.
* Soooo, if your painter(s) haven't used the C2 system yet, they'll be in for a shock!!
* If you have a red/wine Accent-based color (dark), and it DOESN'T have the little dagger symbol, I'd put a gray primer under it...STILL 2 TOPCOATS THOUGH!!

I LOVE the way this stuff goes on! I'm painting "Challah" C2-7300 in our conference-room, using the WBP-primer tinted to half-strength of Challah (It's kind of a medium-khaki-tan color in the M-base). Tinted primer isn't required for Challah, but I was experimenting...existing walls were kinda crappy. This primer had a real nice flow to it!
* Make sure the painter is using top-notch rollers. I used the Purdy "white-dove" 3/8" covers...about $5 each.
* Apply FULL coats...don't stretch it. If they're getting more than 400sf/gal, it's gonna be too thin. Treat the primer as a finish coat...full & even.

Thanks,
Faron (aka...Mr. "wordy")

Faron - thanks so much - that's really helpful.

Some rooms are going to be BM- so not everything is C2!

Well, we can't be ALL perfect! ;-)
Lemme know what colors you're using however!

And, clue me in on what your painter says about any dark C2 primers you may use!!

Later,
Faron

I could have written this post. I've been asking for 2 wks now "when am I going to meet iwth the painter to go over my colors" and then today I walk in and they're putting primer on the walls. I'm also using a mix of C2 and BM colors. The C2 colors I have are:
Wulfenite for office which says A
Alpine for kids bath which says W
Kiwi for little girls br "W"
Sundown for my kitchen "P"

So my question is if they've primered office and kitchen already do we do another coat of primer before paint in the appropriate tone? Have you by chance had any experience with these particular colors. I have a pretty sunny home so I'm hoping these colors will look good. Thanks for any input!

Hi Lford,
Seems like coordinating with painters', etc., never works!!

>>> SORRY! THEY'LL HAVE TO RE-PRIME THE OFFICE for Wulfenite. You'll regret it if not!

Only your C2 "Wulfenite" in the Accent base requires the ACS tinted primer.
* The can is a darker color, & says ACS (Accent Color System) primer.
* It WON'T be the same color as the topcoat. That's fine.
* Make sure they know to apply a FULL primer-coat...nice & even.
* Primer will need 3-4 HOURS to dry...
* Actual color-coat will require 5-6 HOURS between coats!!!
THIS IS A MUST!!!

Your colors are nice! Alpine is such a pretty pale-blue.
Kiwi...appropriately named.
Sundown...to me, it's a nice peach/tan.
* These colors are fine on the white primer they've done.
* Still need TWO full coats though!! 3 HOURS apart is fine for these 3.

Kitchen......I'd use SATIN.
Kids Bath....BEST-choice is Semi-gloss. SATIN MINIMUM!
Kids Bedrm...Satin, MAYBE EGGSHELL.
Office.......Eggshell, but maybe even the FLAT. Wulfenite would look very rich in flat. C2 just came out with a DEAD-FLAT. This might be an option, IF the kids won't dirty these walls much?! Check with your C2 retailer to see if they have it in yet.

Good Luck!
Faron

Faron, Thank you so much for your advice. I know nothing about painting and feel like we just rely on the painters we hire to know what they're doing but these seem to be relatively new paints and you never know for sure.
One more question for you that I forgot to mention. I have plaster walls in half the house and drywall textured to match the plasster in others so it's not a smooth wall surface. Does that matter in the type of paint (eggshell vs. flat etc)?
And in other rooms I'm using Aura paints and was told that I wouldn't need a primer, just two coats (which makes this paint affordable). Is that true even with the textured walls? Does it matter?
I live outside of San Franicsco in Marin and these just happen to be the two lines carried so I fell in love with the colors before I knew they cost more.

Lford,

A textured surface "breaks-up" the reflected light. A smooth wall in Semi-gloss would look like an Ice-sheet, while a "rougher" wall in S/G wouldn't seem as polished.

>>> The main principle for Sheen-choice should be "the use of the room", not it's existing texture.

I doubt 1% of painters' out there have heard of C2. It's only been on store-shelves for 5-6 yrs; mainly out east at first, then a few out west. And now (since Nov. '06, we have it in Fargo, ND) The closest dealers to us are Chicago & Denver.
It's kind of interesting...C2 tells YOU if a store can have their line! Sort of an "interview" process. It'll NEVER migrate out to a BIG-box. The investment is too hefty, and the whole purpose is to have exclusiveity. The tinter/computer/scanner setup is well north of $10g.

I can tell you have good taste in paints! C2 & Aura...Wow! You'll have a beautiful home! I'd SOOO love to see the Marin area! It's kinda flat up here in Fargo...
* I can't speak to the features of Aura, but I know it's the OTHER ultra-premium line ;-)
* Use the C2 advice previously mentioned, expecially about Wulfenite, and you're on your way to a gorgeous home!

Regards,
Faron

I just wanted to mention that I used a lot of different primers in the past 16 months, both in my own home and in my brother's who's house we're prepping for resale. We used, Farrow & Ball, Pratt & Lambert, and Kilz something or other. By FAR the best primer in my opinion was the C2 WBP. This stuff covered completely, and smoothly. Went on like silk, and at one point my husband said (on NEW wallboard, with just one coat of C2 primer) "Oh, I didn't know this room was going to be white, it's really nice!". Um, hello, it's only got one coat of primer on it. But I remember thinking, jeez, he's right. It's great stuff. And that's really saying something because the F&B and P&L primer was nothing to sneeze at.

Great stuff,
Ivette

I had no idea my paint colors were so special. I just walked into the paint store and picked some stuff. They never tell you the pricetag until you buy and I don't buy because I have paitners doing the whole house. I'm sure I'll pay for it in the end but I've heard such great stuff I'm not going to change all my colors now. Oh well, one more expense on building a new home.

Hi again Lford, Pirula, Deegeegirl, & C2 fans...,
Lford...your colors (AND paint) ARE special 'cuz C2 wasn't designed to be "number TWO"!
C2's creators searched the world for the best Colorants, Tinting equipment, and Raw-materials. Nothing more, nothing less...just the best.

Fast facts:
* Colorants...Made in Finland by Europe's leading manufacturer for C2. Uses the first 16-colorant tinting system, instead of the usual 10-12. Four of the 16 are high-strength versions, meaning very complex colors are more easily achieved with less colorant. These versions are pretty$$$!

* Tinters...COROBS. Made in Italy. Accurately tints very small qty's. Gear-driven pumps do the dispensing simultaneously. Very quick process, even for a dark color. It's cool watching 6 colorants streaming in all at once...if you're kind of a geek like me... ;-)

* Raw material...Again, only the best pigments, resins, binders, etc. There are all kinds of "quality-grades" of these ingredients, each affecting all kinds of paint properties. C2 used the best of each.

* C2 normally retails for $40-$48/gal.

* Pirula...you're right! That WBP does go on like silk! I thought I was looking at a beautiful "near-flat" FINISH- coat!

Later guys!
Faron

Hi Faron-
Our builder budgeted for BM when we were first setting our budget. That's before I stumbled across C2!

What's the relative cost of C2 vs. BM? Is coverage the same or do you need to use less C2 to get the same coverage? The painter who's subcontracted isn't familiar with C2 so I'm wondering if that would be a problem.

The builder did a job with C2 a few years ago and said the walls were splotchy and needed lots of work to get right. He's willing to do whatever we choose but he thinks C2 is more hype than substance.

So, how easy is it for a painter to use (or learn to use) C2? Does the final result look that much different from more mainstream mfrs, like BM?

I have to say I love all the C2 colors. I've picked up the BM fan decks and I'm sure I'd find colors there I like, but they just don't jump out at me the same way the C2 ones do.

Thanks so much.

Hey Deegeegirl,

B4 I get too "wordy" AGAIN....refer to my previous posts here. Lots of good application tips & info. I think.

* C2 avg's. $40-$48/gal.
* I'm not all that familiar w/ BM's pricing, but I know they have some lines in the upper-$30's to low $40's/gal. too. BM is good paint too-in the lines Michael uses.
* Our store has ACE-royal, Ralph Lauren, & (obviously) C2, so I try to really "specialize" in these 3.
* Regarding the "blotchy" job...It MAY be because incorrect primers were used (mainly for dark Accent-bases), so-so quality rollers, too-thin application, etc, etc. There's too many variables...and SOMETIMES, a painter might think he or she is better than they really are.
* C2's "very saturated colors" are a feature they stress, bolstered by the top-notch colorant system.

I'll try to answer any other ?'s as best I can!

Faron

Hey C2 fans!!

Just got in the new "Non-reflective Flat". S'posed to be a DEAD flat...more for ceiling use, but appropriate for any architectural area requiring a Dead-flat. I hope there's no kids around!
This is avail. in all 4 tint-bases, so if ya need a "true-flat" Vixen, Venus-Envy, Wulfenite or Death-by-Chocolate, it's now available!

"That's all for now..."
Faron

I just wanted to pipe up and say that I am more convinced than ever that there was something off with the C2 paint I had gotten last year. I had C2-Icefog. Although I loved the color on the large "chip" (if a 2.5 foot sheet of paper can be called a chip), I did not like the color on the wall at all. Fortunately, with Pirula's help it is now gone (DKC24). But my disliking their color is probably not C2's fault :-).

However, regarding paint quality: when I was applying the paint, the paint spattered like the dickens. I had previously painted my trim and I literally had to stop and wipe the trim and baseboards after rolling every wall I did because I got this fine mist *everywhere*. From what I understand, it should not have been like this. The paint store insisted I was doing something wrong and that there was nothing wrong with the paint. Perhaps so, but neither with Benjamin Moore before nor with Pratt & Lambert (Donald Kaufman) since, did I have that problem.

Secondly, I'd gotten the paint in Eggshell since I'd read that C2's paints run quite flat and that their Eggshell would be a fairly flat. Well, this eggshell shone like the dickens. It was easily the shiniest room in the house - kitchen and bathroom included where I had used a satin finish (BM, not C2). I like my paints flat and I did not care for the shine I wound up with.

I've heard generally good reviews about paint quality from the few folks who have used C2. I would imagine therefore that my experience (negative) is an aberration, but I've never before had an experience where something was painful both during and after the application.

Hi Mindstorm,

I'm sorry you had a "not ideal" experience with C2.

We just got done painting our conference-room with C2's Challah in Eggshell. I thought it had a nice, creamy flow to it. The WBP-Primer was beautiful to apply too. C2 is a flatter eggshell...less sheen than I expected.

* There is (obviously) no "industry standard" on sheens. One brands' eggshell is another's "satin".
* Was your can a yellow/orange label?? Let me know.
* The C2 "flow" may seem a little more "liquid-creamy" than some other brands...
>>> One BIG misconception out there is that it has to "go on thick" to be considered good paint.
>>> Some brands use forms of cellulose that affect viscosity, making a paint feel "thicker". This is only a DIFFERENCE...NOT a quality indicator.
* The easy Rheology (science of liquid flow-propeties) of C2 is by design, to more easily "level" and hold pigments without using "fluffing" additives.
* Batch-wise: Paints are made in such big batches that getting a "bad-can" is near-impossible.
* If you're used to moving your arm fairly fast when rolling, I can see where C2 MAY seem more spatter-prone. Because everyones' technique is so different, it's near-impossible to isolate though.

Please let me know if I've let you down with some of my answers'!
Faron

Faron,
Thanks so much for your response. You have clarified and most certainly *not* let me down with any of your answers.

If you're used to moving your arm fairly fast when rolling, I can see where C2 MAY seem more spatter-prone. Because everyones' technique is so different, it's near-impossible to isolate though
I bet you've put your finger on the root of my problem. Indeed I do/did move fairly quickly while rolling because I thought the idea was to move quickly to keep that "wet edge" I was reading so much about. I guess that was my problem.

I'll attest to your point that the C2 flow was more "liquid-creamy" than other brands - I had a few drips that probably formed after I'd rolled. I thought for a while that that was a problem with the plaster but figured out eventually that the paint had run in those two areas. Didn't see any such thing anywhere else, though. It did have a nice feel to the paint after it was dried, although I confess I prefer the softness of a plastered & flat-painted wall since it feels like a limestone or marble (to me).

You are also confirming what someone else here had said that C2's eggshell is flatter than some others. For me, it was not nearly flat enough and seemed to be shinier than BM's satin.

I will probably never use C2 again because I'm not sure I paint often enough to develop sufficient acumen to handle different paint types seeing as how I don't seem to have a problem with BM and PL. I do plan to use a F&B color and I do so hope that will not have another steep learning curve!

Thanks so much for your response Faron.

Thanks Mindstorm for your kind note!

Yeah, they did formulate C2 to be different than the competition!
Couple other things...
* Was your can yellow/orange??
* Do you do a light top-to-bottom sweep after filling in a vertical column??

Thanks!
Faron

faron,
Ooops! I forgot to answer the can question last time and I had run downstairs to check as soon as I saw your prev. post as that was the most substantive point I could make in response.

Indeed the can I'd gotten from them was the yellow/orange and called Interior Eggshell acrylic enamel. It said it was a white base C4270 - perhaps the formulation code?

No I seldom do the top-to-bottom sweep since when I roll I make sure to roll over well into the adjacent 3x3 patch of paint I'd previously applied. I'm concerned that if I go over paint that I may have applied 10 or 15 minutes prior at the start of painting that wall that I may mess up the application. I tend to paint up and down upto about 7 feet above the floor with the short-handle roller then I pick up the long roller and do the top 2-3 feet to the ceiling. As I mentioned earlier, I do try to make sure that I am operating with a wet edge and then I leave it all alone.

The only time I do the full top-to-bottom sweep is if I've been overly liberal with the paint and it looks like I may have some drips. Otherwise no.

I'd better get to bed!

At least I know you got the Eggshell can now...
B-T-W:
* Top-to-bottom sweeps are recommended actually! Pro's use this method. Some do the whole wall as long sweeps!
* Fill in 3'x3' sections in a vertical column, using a FULL roller (not dripping of course).
* When done with bottom section, don't reload, just go to the upper-left corner & LIGHTLY sweep to the bottom.
* Then, repeat the (roughly) 3'x3' column-building, top-down sweeping, all the way across.
* Each 8' high by 3'or4' wide column should only take a couple minutes, including sweeping each column.

You're doubling your work with your technique! Use only 1 roller, leaving the handle attached. MUCH easier on the back, and you don't have to skip a beat when you sweep each column as you progress horizontally.

>>> Also: paint out of a 5-gal. bucket with a hanging screen, instead of the tray.
* This almost eliminates bending,
* Tends to speed up the process, therefore further reducing the tendency for "paint-ridges", AND...
* It's easier to move paint around!!

OK...now I'm hittin' the hay,
Faron

One more question on C2. How is it as exterior paint? We're going with BM Waynesboro Taupe on our stucco Medeterranian style home and was looking at either BM "Dragons Breath" or C2 "Stout" as the facia color with white windows. I was curious if 1. C2 was ridiculously expensive as an exterior paint and 2. if it's even good as exterior. It's just for the trim but I like the Stout color and haven't been able to find a match in BM.

Thanks Faron