Gell I think it's sweet that you adopted a wee bit o' the Irish on behalf of your son! I got engaged on St Patrick's in St Maarten. We were at a restaurant that was centered about a pool under a lenai with gorgeous birds and tropical foliage. We had dinner and then went to the bar for beverages served in ivory plastic mugs that turned green when filled with cold liquid. I teased down the steps into pool [shoes off] to the top of my shorts and DH followed. We kept going and wound up slow dancing in the pool up to our waists fully dressed. Dh said "You should marry me" I said "I might rabbit I might" the next day we bought a ring in Phillipsburg and he asked me in the store and asked again later that night out on Honeymooners walk in the moonlight with a steel drum band in the background to make sure. We love 7's and 17's. Engagement 3/17 his DOB 1/17 my DOB 4/17 our first house 117 our second house 17 our first son due June 7, our second son born 2/7. Damn that's *nothing* to do with corned beef! Or the lack thereof lol.

That Weber method is basically a braise, no? I, too, prefer pork ribs over beef ribs except for short ribs. I fondly remember the days when I would get a full prime rib, bone on, fat cap on. We'd layer the bottom of an apple crate with salt, place the roast on that and totally cover the roast with more salt. Then into the oven overnight at 200* (as low as it would go). The next morning we would knock the salt cap apart and cool the very rare roast. That evening the friends would gather and I'd carve it up, to order so to speak, and each guest would quickly toss theirs onto the grill to warm it. Those bones were good. Now that my mortgage is done, maybe I can try that once again. I have an oven that will set lower too...that would be ideal.

Posted by foodonastump "So couldn't this "potential difference for more energy to transfer" have an effect on not just the braising liquid, but also on the meat that's in the vessel? Or was America's Test Kitchen completely dillusional when they experimented with cooking pot roast in a dutch oven, in an oven at various temperatures and found: "We then tested higher temperatures to reduce the cooking time. Heat levels at above 350 degrees boiled the meat to a stringy, dry texture because the exterior of the roast overcooked before the interior was cooked and tender. The magic temperature turned out to be 300 degrees - enough heat to keep the meat at a low simmer while high enough to shave a few more minutes off the cooking time." Excellent questions. First, It seems to me that we can all accept that: 1. To the meat in the liquid inside the vessel, it makes no difference where the 212F heat comes from. By the very definition of thermal energy, there is no difference between heat from the oven, stove, coal, candle, -------. 2. However, to the meat, how long the meat stays in the 212F will make a difference. To tenderize the meat, it is important to cook it long, in the ATK experiment, as they stated, they cook the meat at 350 but shorter time, therefore some of the meat is tougher. "By the way, the oven cooking time for their pot roast is 3.5-4 hours after the liquid comes to a simmer, stove top. And yes, with an internal temperature of 210 degrees they themselves called the roast "overcooked", in quotes. In other words it was a desirable result in this case. Again, unless they're dilussional, it sure sounds to me like there's 212, and then there's 212. And that generations of cooks weren't wrong. " I don't think that generation of cooks were wrong. Cooking with a covered Dutch oven inside an oven will produce wonderful results. Whether that will have more delicious end results than doing it with the Dutch oven on the stove top is my question. "Last note - you asked why do it in the oven rather than stove-top. ATK found what LindaC mentioned above: "After a few rounds of stovetop cooking, we felt that it was too difficult to maintain a steady, low temperature, so we began pot-roasting in the oven, starting out at 250 degrees. This method required no supervision, just a turn of the meat every 30 to 40 minutes to ensure even cooking." I can understand that. For the purpose of the repeatability of the experiment, as in any experiment, it is important to maintain recordable and verifiable environmental conditions, and that is much easier done in an oven which has a limiting thermostat. There is no practical way to do that on the stove top. However, I am not sure for everyday cooking anyone would have a problem to get the Dutch oven to be on simmering low-fire setting on the stove top. ---------------------------------------------- BTW, ATK has provided much very useful and important information to the public, however, most of their tests are done in somewhat informal settings. To confirm a true test of 350F vs. 300F in the quality of the meat, I believe the experiment must be done in an oven with an electronic PID type of thermostat which has the ability to control the environment to 0.1 F resolution. Mechanical bi-metal or capillary hydraulic type of thermostats in normal ovens can vary as much as 30F to 50F. Humidity of the cooking environment should be monitored, and a chart recorder should be in operation to record temperature swings throughout the entire cooking time. Because testing by individuals chewing is highly unreliable, it depends on subjectivity, and where the meat from the same cut is taken for the chewing. Proper way to do it perhaps would be using a durometer tester. Finally, no test result is to be considered conclusive until the same test is performed by another independent testing facility. Bottom line: Stewing using a Dutch oven in an oven will make wonderful and delicious stew. However, beef "tenderness" cooked at 212 F is very different texturally than beef tenderness cooked at 135F. dcarch

Thanks islay, i will soon make that. A rustic easy prep is my game indeed. I don't have muffin tins of any kind, never have for some reason but will improvise with ramekins? Also late to the party having just spent the weekend harvesting yet again. I just made a wonderful vegetable soup using a smoked chicken stock from the freezer, creating during the drive home 'think tank'.. A nice pureed veg soup of roasted fresh harvest. Tomato. leek, shallot, celery, corn, green beans...had some left-over caramelized onions and half a baby white pumpkin i had roasted. All in the small 2 qrt soup pot when the stock came to heat...Un-packed the truck and it was ready...immersion blender and done. Nice that it did not have oil or any butter or fat at all but so rich with flavor. -I drove and husband snored the entire way home. He was shocked at the speedy outcome but cooking in my head while driving made the trip zippy fast. All the roasted veggies were from last nights dinner and a fresh tomato corn salsa. I don't consider it leftovers as i like to roast and prep soups a day ahead anyway.